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12-10-18 01:57AM
guido is online now Click Here to See the Profile for guido Find more posts by guido Add guido to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
guido
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 975

Official at the throwing end said they had lots of time. Official at the other end came out and was hassling Neufeld about pulling the rock, taking his attention away from calling line. They sweep that rock and they possibly score 2.

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12-10-18 06:59AM
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Observer
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: River Falls, WI, USA
Posts: 191

I dislike these timing rules too. Part of the reason that I enjoy watching curling is to listen to the players try to solve the puzzle that's laid out before them. This per-end timing system doesn't allow for as much of that, leading to rushed decisions and rushed shots.

It also places onus on clock operators to get things right all the time. Having done a little of that myself for another sport, I know that's not as easy to do as it looks, particularly for non-professionals. When I went to the Tour Challenge a few weeks ago, I saw numerous instances of operators starting or stopping clocks late or running them for the wrong team, and several screen malfunctions where the players couldn't see their time clock at all. And that was with the normal rules.

All that being said, one benefit I do see from the per-end system is it discourages teams from blanking ends so that they can bank time to use later in the game. I don't care for blank ends either, but the timing-by-individual-end solution goes too far the other way, I feel.

I'd like to see a middle road tried, where teams are given overall thinking time in two halves, i.e. 16 minutes to play the first four ends and 17 to play the remaining four. (adjust numbers as necessary for 10-end games) That way, you cut out half of the banking incentive, but still give the teams some flexibility as to when to stop and really think about what they're doing.

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12-10-18 09:34AM
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fresca
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Oct 2008
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Guido ... good post .. how did you know that ?

I saw timekeeper on ice at house end ... but that was after the game was lost .. could you hear bj conversation with him ?

Certainly vic and sheryl couldnt figure it out


Who was the stockyy guy that was arguing with harderns - seemed upset - looked familiar , thiink he played lead for koeand martin ?

He might have been a coach for team koe - saw him sweeplots but he never threw one shot on the full screen ...

Apparently the rocket scientists dont care about lead rocks anymore - dont show them even in final end - they must hate me, trying to make my head explode ...

Hopefully a few players are keeping a diary of their true opinions - send me a copy now by private mail - ill send you $1000

I complain abt curl canada commercials but dont mind the classy ones that actually are paying so we can watch for $15/ mnth - if i was farm or car company id ask not to be run on that split screen segment of lead rocks - if i squint i cant hear or see those ads

Overall an enjoyable weekend

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12-10-18 09:39AM
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curlerbroad
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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
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Very well said Observer. Koe is well known for his democratic style of skipping and deliberate approach to shots.

However this was a case of two officials not sharing information. Very poor and the head official should have come down. At least replay the end.

I did timing once and it is not easy with the regular system. This would have made things very difficult for the volunteers even the experienced ones!

I know they want to get rid of blank ends but I feel the 5 rock rule helps somewhat with that anyway.

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12-10-18 10:15AM
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prairie guy
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Southern Sask.
Posts: 209

What I liked the most about this event was that 10 end games were always completed well before 3 hours. So if that was attributable to the timing system or the commercials shown the same time as lead rocks; whatever it takes to speed things up. Myself I don't need to hear too much strategy talk as quite often they just go full circle with their options before making a decision. 3 hour ten end games at Scotties and Briers frustrate me. I guess that is why I am liking mixed doubles curling more and more and I'm not young!


Oh and Russ Howard needs to give teams that play Brad Gushue more credit. They sometimes know what they are doing and won't always leave a rock in the wrong place. (and this is not a criticism of Gushue).

Looking forward to Nfld Slam!

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12-10-18 10:16AM
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fresca
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im guessing 500 volunteers

i wouldnt be a timekeeper for $500 a game

only job worse would be linesman in tennis

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12-10-18 11:11AM
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albetts
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 948

quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
Very well said Observer. Koe is well known for his democratic style of skipping and deliberate approach to shots.

However this was a case of two officials not sharing information. Very poor and the head official should have come down. At least replay the end.

I did timing once and it is not easy with the regular system. This would have made things very difficult for the volunteers even the experienced ones!

I know they want to get rid of blank ends but I feel the 5 rock rule helps somewhat with that anyway.



This clip might answer a few questions relative to Koe's rock taken out of play.

https://www.tsn.ca/curling/video/ko...g-rules~1560300

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12-10-18 11:22AM
Manitoba Legend is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Manitoba Legend Click here to Send Manitoba Legend a Private Message Find more posts by Manitoba Legend Add Manitoba Legend to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Manitoba Legend
Supreme Champion!

 

Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:
Originally posted by fresca
im guessing 500 volunteers

i wouldnt be a timekeeper for $500 a game

only job worse would be linesman in tennis



CCA prolly won't keep end-by-end timing. INcredible intensity added to role of volunteer time-keeper vs. the usual lopey-dopey timing that culminates in final end frenzy . . . .

Also noticed many times (more than a few) neither team clock was moving when it should have been. Clocks were frozen by time-keeper being inattentive or somesuch.

Final observation - too many ends teams came down to skip rocks with 2 full minutes of think-time on the board. Thats far too much as required.

Games are too important to be lost to poor timing procedures. If a team violates any single end timing (other than the last end) then 1 minute should be deducted from their next end. In final end - you run out of time - other team gets to complete their shots while your remaining rocks are hack bound.

The clock change procedure (this week's experiment) was basically "THE KOE RULE"

I think most curling shots are pre-defined so 33-34 minutes of think-time in an 8 end game would be A-OK.

As far as the new timing experiment is concerned - I'd lower the individual end time to 3:20 for first 8 ends; 4:00 for last 2 ends; 4:30 for extra ends - and ZERO TIMEOUTS IN EXTRA END.

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12-10-18 12:07PM
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fresca
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ml

thought you would give us your interpretation of conversation between ben and the harderns

only line i slightly remember was

" what do you want us to do ? give u the game " sortof

just a guess but if bj had yelled sweep at hogline colton or ben would have pounded it into a hit for 2 and atie for ee

had the clock been accurate , koe might have been more accurate too

kk does worry a lot - if he took as much time in houses as he does in hacks he prob wud have won - definitely has a trigger finger once he cleans rock - 1/2 sec and hes tipping it back






















'

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12-10-18 12:11PM
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guido
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 975

quote:
Originally posted by fresca


just a guess but if bj had yelled sweep at hogline colton or ben would have pounded it into a hit for 2 and atie for ee



Except that the official was vocalizing with B.J. about removing the rock as it was coming down the ice. Pretty much taking BJ out of the equation.

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12-10-18 01:03PM
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curlerbroad
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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
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I was watching a provincial playdown once where they called a time out. The timekeeper was behind the glass, her back was turned as she was chatting with a spectator...the skip had to bang on the glass to get her attention. What did the official do? Instead of telling the timekeeper to pay attention, they told off the skip for "being rude" to the volunteer timekeeper.

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12-10-18 05:03PM
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Manitoba Legend
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Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
I was watching a provincial playdown once where they called a time out. The timekeeper was behind the glass, her back was turned as she was chatting with a spectator...the skip had to bang on the glass to get her attention. What did the official do? Instead of telling the timekeeper to pay attention, they told off the skip for "being rude" to the volunteer timekeeper.


Goes to show all volunteer jobs are important. Unless you get an unstable volunteer like Guido you have to pay attention to all things on-ice. Yes, I know its hard to maintain laser focus for nearly 3 hours over several days of seemingly never-ending draws - but thats what you signed up for. If not, take tickets at the front or pour coffee!
One solution in this day of technology is for teams to self-time . . . by that I mean calling their own time-outs via any number of designed apps - perhaps signalling their coach or 5th to press a button that suspends the clock for the requisite 60 seconds. Worth looking into - and the volunteers can be diverted into other less stressful areas.

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12-10-18 08:00PM
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fresca
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Oct 2008
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Ml

Impossible for a team to self time

If the poobahs want to speed up game it only fair they don't change the rules every tournament and that they provide top end time clocks and professional trained timekeepers - that they pay - lol - probably more than the players.. Like that will happen

Back to reasonable time and show leads rocks ....

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12-10-18 08:21PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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Registered: Mar 2013
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Posts: 749

Bigger picture : Time change

The more I think about this the more it gets me thinking, and questioning, who really benefits from this? Is the game better with timed individual ends? NO. Is the sport better? NO. Will it in ANY way help grow the sport? NO. Who is putting pressure on Curling Canada to impose these changes? Who even suggested changing the rules to time each end? Was it the curlers? NO. Was it the World Curling Federation? I think not. Was it the Member Associations in Canada? Nah. Or even the European or Pacific-Asia Associations? Not likely. So who would be pushing for such a drastic change to the sport and who would benefit from it.

TSN and Sportsnet. One covers all the Canadian and World Championships, the other OWNS the slams. Begs another question, how much influence do these broadcasters have over Curling Canada in shaping the game to fit THEIR SCHEDULES? It's all about the almighty dollar and what can they do to make more, regardless of how it affects the sport.
Going back a few years it started with relegation to make the Brier and Scottiies fit THEIR SCHEDULE. It was the change to 8 end games for the Slams, to fit THEIR SCHEDULE. 5 rock rule to try and prevent up and down blanks. Blank ends are and always will be part of the game. Or, is that the next change on the horizon? No blank ends or forfeit the hammer.

Full disclosure I've always been a bit of a conspiracy theorist, but these changes wreak of interference into the sport all for profit for the broadcasters. Yes, yes, I know they don't do it for free or to lose money, but to impose their will on the governing body to change the sport to suit their wants, not needs, is a bit rich for me.
AND, the stooges at Curling Canada are more worried about keeping their job and perks and benefits, than putting their curling shoe down and finally say ENOUGH!!!

I know I can't be the only one.

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12-10-18 08:21PM
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guido
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 975

Best volunteer ever!

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12-10-18 08:27PM
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guido
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Feb 2011
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https://i.postimg.cc/KzdWgSSJ/14916...229065346-n.jpg

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12-10-18 08:41PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
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quote:
Originally posted by guido
https://i.postimg.cc/KzdWgSSJ/14916...229065346-n.jpg


He could pass as Rick Lagina from Curse of Oak Island

tried to copy and paste, you'll have to google it

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12-10-18 08:43PM
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guido
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 975

I'm actually watching oak island right now.

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12-10-18 10:44PM
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MeaghanEdwards
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Aug 2018
Location:
Posts: 40

Re: Bigger picture : Time change

quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
The more I think about this the more it gets me thinking, and questioning, who really benefits from this? Is the game better with timed individual ends? NO. Is the sport better? NO. Will it in ANY way help grow the sport? NO. Who is putting pressure on Curling Canada to impose these changes? Who even suggested changing the rules to time each end? Was it the curlers? NO. Was it the World Curling Federation? I think not. Was it the Member Associations in Canada? Nah. Or even the European or Pacific-Asia Associations? Not likely. So who would be pushing for such a drastic change to the sport and who would benefit from it.

TSN and Sportsnet. One covers all the Canadian and World Championships, the other OWNS the slams. Begs another question, how much influence do these broadcasters have over Curling Canada in shaping the game to fit THEIR SCHEDULES? It's all about the almighty dollar and what can they do to make more, regardless of how it affects the sport.
Going back a few years it started with relegation to make the Brier and Scottiies fit THEIR SCHEDULE. It was the change to 8 end games for the Slams, to fit THEIR SCHEDULE. 5 rock rule to try and prevent up and down blanks. Blank ends are and always will be part of the game. Or, is that the next change on the horizon? No blank ends or forfeit the hammer.

Full disclosure I've always been a bit of a conspiracy theorist, but these changes wreak of interference into the sport all for profit for the broadcasters. Yes, yes, I know they don't do it for free or to lose money, but to impose their will on the governing body to change the sport to suit their wants, not needs, is a bit rich for me.
AND, the stooges at Curling Canada are more worried about keeping their job and perks and benefits, than putting their curling shoe down and finally say ENOUGH!!!

I know I can't be the only one.



Agreed with all of this one hundred percent. Next thing they'll be doing is reducing baseball to a 5 inning game or the Kentucky Derby to a 7 furlong affair for the sake of television. I'm all for "growing the sport" as you will, but lets not change it beyond recognition.

Also is it really needed to stick another Slam event right after Canada Cup? Eish, talk about a quick turnaround time for the teams coming out out of Sasky!

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