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03-21-17 01:59PM
RaiseDoubleFTW is offline Click Here to See the Profile for RaiseDoubleFTW Click here to Send RaiseDoubleFTW a Private Message Find more posts by RaiseDoubleFTW Add RaiseDoubleFTW to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
RaiseDoubleFTW
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2013
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Posts: 16

Shot to the button Rules

Hello fellow curlers!

My league finishes this evening so I'm trying explain to the teams how the shot-to-the-button tie-breaker will work in the event of any ties in the championship games.

I've tried to find some 'official' rules online but I'm drawing (pun intended) a blank. I thought the GSOC would have some rules on their site as they used a single shot tie-breaker during the Elite 10 this week, but if they are there I can't see them.

So I'm appealing to the good people here. My main two questions are:

1) Who goes first? Is it based on who had hammer in the final end? e.g. The team who didn't have hammer in the last end would have hammer so they go second? Or does that team actually get choice of going first or second?

2) Does a rock short of the house beat a rock that goes out of the back? Or does a rock HAVE to be in the rings to count.

I know I could just make up my own rules but I'd like them to be somewhat based on what 'real' curlers do! (However, I've also told them 'there's no tape so "Just touching 4ft" will have to be good enough as a measure' so we're not exactly elite here!!)

Cheers!

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03-21-17 02:09PM
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biterbar
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It's a championship, play the extra end!

Hammer goes with whoever didn't score in the last end. Toss them again if no one hits paint and if it's close, measure it like you would any stone, with your measuring device.

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03-21-17 02:18PM
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hkempenich
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There are no rules for deciding a game on a shot to the button. There are rules for a Last Shot Draw, used in competition to decide who has hammer. You can look them up and adapt them for your use. Two shots per team are thrown in competition: one inturn and one outturn.

What we usually do at our club:

1. The team that would have hammer should an extra end be played throws second.

2. The team throwing can sweep. The team not throwing cannot sweep.

3. After the first team throws, we measure the rock with the competition measure and set it aside. Then we move the rock out of play.

4. After the second team throws, if they are close, we measure again with the competition measure to see which one is closer. If it is not close, we just do a visual determination.

5. Rocks outside the house are 73 inches no matter where they stop. If both are outside the house, either in front or through the back, both teams throw again.

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03-21-17 02:53PM
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RaiseDoubleFTW
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2013
Location:
Posts: 16

Thanks both for replies!

I'd definitely prefer they play the extra end, but they'd have to agree to the lights going off halfway through!!

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03-21-17 03:13PM
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Three
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 260

quote:
Originally posted by hkempenich
There are no rules for deciding a game on a shot to the button. There are rules for a Last Shot Draw, used in competition to decide who has hammer. You can look them up and adapt them for your use. Two shots per team are thrown in competition: one inturn and one outturn.

What we usually do at our club:

1. The team that would have hammer should an extra end be played throws second.

2. The team throwing can sweep. The team not throwing cannot sweep.

3. After the first team throws, we measure the rock with the competition measure and set it aside. Then we move the rock out of play.

4. After the second team throws, if they are close, we measure again with the competition measure to see which one is closer. If it is not close, we just do a visual determination.

5. Rocks outside the house are 73 inches no matter where they stop. If both are outside the house, either in front or through the back, both teams throw again.




This is what most clubs do including ours. Only thing I would add is that anybody can throw the rock, sweep, hold the broom.

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03-21-17 06:23PM
decade is offline Click Here to See the Profile for decade Click here to Send decade a Private Message Find more posts by decade Add decade to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
decade
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Jan 2011
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Posts: 1431

quote:
Originally posted by hkempenich
There are no rules for deciding a game on a shot to the button. There are rules for a Last Shot Draw, used in competition to decide who has hammer. You can look them up and adapt them for your use. Two shots per team are thrown in competition: one inturn and one outturn.

What we usually do at our club:

1. The team that would have hammer should an extra end be played throws second.

2. The team throwing can sweep. The team not throwing cannot sweep.

3. After the first team throws, we measure the rock with the competition measure and set it aside. Then we move the rock out of play.

4. After the second team throws, if they are close, we measure again with the competition measure to see which one is closer. If it is not close, we just do a visual determination.

5. Rocks outside the house are 73 inches no matter where they stop. If both are outside the house, either in front or through the back, both teams throw again.



That's what we do (but never for a championship), If one rock goes through the ice and one is short of the house, The one short is the winner (since it is still in play

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03-21-17 07:30PM
AlanMacNeill is offline Click Here to See the Profile for AlanMacNeill Click here to Send AlanMacNeill a Private Message Find more posts by AlanMacNeill Add AlanMacNeill to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
AlanMacNeill
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Registered: Sep 2011
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The league I'm coordinating is doing a variant on this for a end of season tiebreak (if needed).

All four players on each team will throw, smallest total distance wins.

Puts a little more "team" into it rather than one good throw, IMO.

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03-21-17 10:40PM
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Grat
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Mar 2014
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quote:
Originally posted by decade


That's what we do (but never for a championship), If one rock goes through the ice and one is short of the house, The one short is the winner (since it is still in play



I'm used to it being a rock must be in the house to win, short or through count the same, just like a regular end.

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03-22-17 04:37AM
On The Nose is offline Click Here to See the Profile for On The Nose Click here to Send On The Nose a Private Message Find more posts by On The Nose Add On The Nose to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
On The Nose
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 357

quote:
Originally posted by RaiseDoubleFTW
Thanks both for replies!

I'd definitely prefer they play the extra end, but they'd have to agree to the lights going off halfway through!!


Simple - whoever is shot rock when the lights go out wins.
If a measure is necessary, use a flashlight.

Seriously, though - can't the light timer be reset for an extra 30 minutes for just the couple of weeks it takes to finish the playoffs? Jeez - have every player throw in 50 cents per game if the cost of electricity is so important.
No playoff game should end with a draw to the button (or a shootout, etc.).

__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world’s opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Last edited by On The Nose on 03-22-17 at 04:39AM

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03-22-17 09:41AM
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nelsosi
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Registered: Mar 2012
Location: YYZ, Canada
Posts: 420

quote:
Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
The league I'm coordinating is doing a variant on this for a end of season tiebreak (if needed).

All four players on each team will throw, smallest total distance wins.

Puts a little more "team" into it rather than one good throw, IMO.



I like this variant a lot. Only problem is that it takes a lot longer, since 8 total rocks have to be thrown. If you're going to throw 8 draws for a tiebreak, why not just take another 5-7 minutes and play an entire end?

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03-22-17 11:46AM
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Squiggsy
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Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:
Originally posted by decade


That's what we do (but never for a championship), If one rock goes through the ice and one is short of the house, The one short is the winner (since it is still in play



This is horrific. If the first team throws it through the house, the second team has a 27 foot by 14 foot area to put the rock in. The draw to the button should be treated like a fairway in golf. It doesn't matter if you were an inch off the fairway or a mile. If you miss the fairway, you miss. Saying a rock just an inch over the hogline is closer to the button than a rock that is an inch out the back of the rings is asinine.

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03-22-17 11:21PM
On The Nose is offline Click Here to See the Profile for On The Nose Click here to Send On The Nose a Private Message Find more posts by On The Nose Add On The Nose to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
On The Nose
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 357

quote:
Originally posted by decade


That's what we do (but never for a championship), If one rock goes through the ice and one is short of the house, The one short is the winner (since it is still in play


At our club, if one rock goes through the ice, it's a sign that it's Spring, the building has become too warm, and it's time to put an end to the curling season.

__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world’s opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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03-23-17 07:53AM
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AlanMacNeill
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Sep 2011
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quote:
Originally posted by nelsosi


I like this variant a lot. Only problem is that it takes a lot longer, since 8 total rocks have to be thrown. If you're going to throw 8 draws for a tiebreak, why not just take another 5-7 minutes and play an entire end?



Because the tie for position might not be between the two teams that are playing on the ice currently...or the tie might be between 3 or more teams...and we don't have time to play tiebreaking draws.

So...everyone throws a stone, rank em and call it good...we could actually go with an LSD before every game I suppose, but then that requires someone to do that process every week and keep the records, and it's not always needed.

Still though...we're supposedly a developmental league...maybe that would be something to give teams that may be going to Playdowns eventually some experience with...

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03-23-17 07:58AM
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AlanMacNeill
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 932

quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose

At our club, if one rock goes through the ice, it's a sign that it's Spring, the building has become too warm, and it's time to put an end to the curling season.



Reminds me of the Irish Open bonspiel at Aksarben (Omaha, NE) the last season they had ice in the old horse barn...

The compressor was shared with the minor league hockey team that played in the arena next door...when their season ended, the compressor was turned off. Usually no issue, since the hockey team was good and made the playoffs every season and progressed well into late April, allowing the club to wrap up curling around the Solstice and be good...

Problem...one year the hockey team was...not so good...and their season ended just as the spiel was beginning...

I recall seeing wakes being left by hit weight stones in the Final...but I'm sure that is just a colorful memory...not *completely* sure, but sure nonetheless...

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10-09-17 11:26AM
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RockDoc
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Registered: Apr 2005
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Posts: 371

We don't do this for championships games, but for tiebreakers in a Schenkel format or to place 4 or 8 teams (out of say 12) in a lower event we will do a "team draw to the button" with the following scoring:

Covering pin = 5 points
touching button = 4 points
touching 4-foot = 3 points
touching 8 foot = 2 points
touching rings = 1 point

Skip's shot is measured from the pin

First tiebreaker = total points
Second tiebreaker = skip shot distance.

As Alan says, this makes it more of a team effort.

If we use draw to the button to decide a game, then you must hit the paint to score. If both teams miss the house, you do it again (and again) until someone lands in the house.

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10-09-17 04:46PM
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dugless_zone 13
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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
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If both teams miss the paint for the win after 8 or 10 ends they should both lose.

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10-09-17 07:52PM
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RockDoc
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Registered: Apr 2005
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Ha. Tempting, but it would really mess up the draw!

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10-12-17 05:56AM
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Reid Carruthers wins Canad Inns Mens Classic

Reid Carruthers wins Canad Inns Mens Classic

Reid Carruthers (Winnipeg, MB) wins the Canad Inns Men's Classic, defeating Glenn Howard (Islington, ON) 6-1 at the Portage Curling Club in Portage La Prairie, Canada.

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