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| 02-17-18 03:23PM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose
^ Good post.
Jamcan loves to go around these boards calling people all sorts of names. Clearly, it's how he makes his immature and insecure self feel 'better'.
Anyone who's read jamcan's posts on this Forum cannot be at all surprised that what decent people view as being classless and wrong, jamcan considers wonderful.
Why do I love posts like this? Because 9,999,999 times out of 10,000,000 it's justification that my post, which generates this kind of whiny response, was bang on and a whole lot of you folks didn't like getting your opinions rightfully lambasted.
More proof? I continue to read non-stop posts obsessing about Homan pulling the stone and high and mighty comments that all of you wouldn't do it given the same situation. Which, quite frankly is BS. You'd probably all run out there faster than Homan did to kick off the stone.
But then, CZ is full of hypocrisy lol.
The Danes broke the rule, Homan exercised an option available to her under the rules and was not in any violation of player ethics or showing poor sportsmanship.
Accept it, get over it, move on so Legend can get back to twisting this thread into another Jones worship.
__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
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| 02-17-18 03:54PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
quote:
Originally posted by sooner
bet barnard wishes she wasn't there.
She should have declined saying they've already got their 5th player that seemed to be plenty good enough the last 3 years
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| 02-17-18 04:02PM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
quote:
Originally posted by RaiseDoubleFTW
Kind of an irrelevant distinction.
The rule doesn't say 'cannot be removed...', but whether the rock is grazed by a broom or kicked off to the side and taken back behind the house, the situation is still the same.
All the rocks come to rest and then the non-offending team has the same three options.
basically between the hoglines ( although technically between t-line and playing end hogline ) if a rock is touched it is removed from play immediately. After it crosses the playing end hogline and is touched then all rocks are allowed to come to rest and the three options kick in.
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| 02-17-18 04:47PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
quote:
Originally posted by nelski
I have a lot of respect for Renee. I think she's getting a bad wrap here. She has coached Olympic curling and knows the sport. She isn't "Olga". The coach has many roles and is not the enemy. No comments by her were included in CBC's comeback story (above). Conspicuous absence. TenBux says it was her choice to refrain.
Be specific if you are talking about Olympic curling. It was Denmark, Here is wiki's verision of her CV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9e_Sonnenberg
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| 02-17-18 05:41PM |
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RaiseDoubleFTW
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Apr 2013
Location:
Posts: 39 |
quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
basically between the hoglines ( although technically between t-line and playing end hogline ) if a rock is touched it is removed from play immediately. After it crosses the playing end hogline and is touched then all rocks are allowed to come to rest and the three options kick in.
Thank you, but the post you quoted, quoted a previous post specifically related to the situation after the hogline.
There was no confusion about between the hogline violations.
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| 02-17-18 05:47PM |
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Ajay
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 570 |
Given my understanding of the rule, I feel the people supporting Rachel's action choose to overlook the thought process embodied in the rule. Firstly, what is the outcome resulting from the infraction. A foot/kick infraction would usually have a greater affect on the speed/direction of rock , resulting likely in notable rock displacement, both moving and stationary rocks. A broom contact infraction is usually much less likely to affect the speed/direction of rock, resulting in minimal or no change to end rock positioning. As in any sport, rules are there for a reason, but with every rule the severity of the infraction is considered (2 min, 10 min, game misconduct , 10 game suspension etc, all started with same basic infraction). Curling really only had two routine infractions and one was resolved using technology , the hog line infraction. The other, the burnt rock, was always to be discussed in a gentlemanly manner and come to a mutually agreeable solution. This had worked for many decades and continues to be used and works very well to this day. The removal rule was implemented to allow a situation to be resolved IF the two sides could not reach an agreeable solution, and then the offended team could remove rock to resolve. Within this process the objective was always to be fair to both teams , and any penalty imposed should be commensurate with the severity of the infraction.
Given these views, it is very clear to me that the spirit of the rule and respect for the game were totally ignored.
I can only assume that perhaps her "out of sorts" head space due to losses and losing totally negated any rational thought process at that moment.
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| 02-17-18 05:49PM |
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AK267
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 1713 |
The USA is experiencing the full power of this armed and operational battle station.
Worse time to play Canada is on a "rebound" game and it's a spanking.
If both USA teams fail to medal I would love to hear the spin from the USCA.
__________________
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http://www.curlaksarben.com
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| 02-17-18 06:19PM |
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albetts
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 1120 |
quote:
Originally posted by decade
Be specific if you are talking about Olympic curling. It was Denmark, Here is wiki's verision of her CV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9e_Sonnenberg
That was interesting. Hmmmmm.
You know, I get the feeling that the Homan rink just lets her speak at their "times out" then dismisses whatever she has to say. Just my opinion.
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| 02-17-18 07:26PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
quote:
Originally posted by albetts
That was interesting. Hmmmmm.
You know, I get the feeling that the Homan rink just lets her speak at their "times out" then dismisses whatever she has to say. Just my opinion.
Just like the jr finals and ignored Earl Morris and lost the game.
"How's that workin' for ya"?
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| 02-17-18 09:38PM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
Why do I love posts like this? Because 9,999,999 times out of 10,000,000 it's justification that my post, which generates this kind of whiny response, was bang on and a whole lot of you folks didn't like getting your opinions rightfully lambasted.
More proof? I continue to read non-stop posts obsessing about Homan pulling the stone and high and mighty comments that all of you wouldn't do it given the same situation. Which, quite frankly is BS. You'd probably all run out there faster than Homan did to kick off the stone.
But then, CZ is full of hypocrisy lol.
The Danes broke the rule, Homan exercised an option available to her under the rules and was not in any violation of player ethics or showing poor sportsmanship.
Accept it, get over it, move on so Legend can get back to twisting this thread into another Jones worship.
It's interesting (and rather humorous) that this guy (jamcan) constantly and perpetually and desperately tries to rationalize that his view/perspective is 'right' (and that all those who disagree are a**holes, of course).
It's so very predictable from him. To call him Narcissistic would be an understatement.
I once felt that he might be somewhat intelligent - usually wrong, but somewhat intelligent. But then, if he truly were, he would surely possess the capacity to recognize that his posts, much more often than not, simply reveal him as being quite insecure and lacking in maturity - and so desperate for attention that he'll not only accept negative attention, but will openly ask for it, as it's much easier to acquire than is positive attention.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| 02-17-18 09:41PM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by Ajay
Given my understanding of the rule, I feel the people supporting Rachel's action choose to overlook the thought process embodied in the rule. Firstly, what is the outcome resulting from the infraction. A foot/kick infraction would usually have a greater affect on the speed/direction of rock , resulting likely in notable rock displacement, both moving and stationary rocks. A broom contact infraction is usually much less likely to affect the speed/direction of rock, resulting in minimal or no change to end rock positioning. As in any sport, rules are there for a reason, but with every rule the severity of the infraction is considered (2 min, 10 min, game misconduct , 10 game suspension etc, all started with same basic infraction). Curling really only had two routine infractions and one was resolved using technology , the hog line infraction. The other, the burnt rock, was always to be discussed in a gentlemanly manner and come to a mutually agreeable solution. This had worked for many decades and continues to be used and works very well to this day. The removal rule was implemented to allow a situation to be resolved IF the two sides could not reach an agreeable solution, and then the offended team could remove rock to resolve. Within this process the objective was always to be fair to both teams , and any penalty imposed should be commensurate with the severity of the infraction.
Given these views, it is very clear to me that the spirit of the rule and respect for the game were totally ignored.
I can only assume that perhaps her "out of sorts" head space due to losses and losing totally negated any rational thought process at that moment.
^ Excellent post and genuine, objective explanation of the situation.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| 02-17-18 10:10PM |
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watcher2
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 63 |
You know,. I have never heard so much stupidity. The rule is clear. You burn a rock the other team can pull it and you can bet if the teams were reversed, it would have been pulled. This isn't club curling. These are not cllub sweepers so they should never burn a rock especially one coming to rest.
As to sportsmenship, this is the Olympics, full of corruption and all about prestige and money. The rest of the world realizes that. Only Canadians are too stupid to see it. That's why all our teams are under funded.
I agree with the NHL. Just ignore it.
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| 02-17-18 10:14PM |
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watcher2
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 63 |
quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
Just like the jr finals and ignored Earl Morris and lost the game.
"How's that workin' for ya"?
If my coach was that bad at calls, l'd ignore her as well. Probably CAC trained.
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| 02-17-18 10:17PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
Surely you jest; at calling Earl Morris a bad coach. Have you been living under a rock?
My point she has never listened to anyone. Sometimes there are people out there that DO KNOW what they're talking about.
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| 02-17-18 10:22PM |
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watcher2
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 63 |
quote:
Originally posted by misty1
right, that's the problem. you nailed it. meanwhile the canadian men are 4-0. kind of blows your theory apart.
Give it time. That's the problem with Canadians, they can't think a foot in front of their nose. Then when it happens they hold up their hands and ask why! You give the enemy all your weapons and wonder why you get beat?
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| 02-17-18 10:32PM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
Wow, Watcher 2 surprised me but now we know what Trumps user name is on Curlingzone.
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| 02-17-18 11:07PM |
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RaiseDoubleFTW
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Apr 2013
Location:
Posts: 39 |
quote:
Originally posted by watcher2
You know,. I have never heard so much stupidity. The rule is clear. You burn a rock the other team can pull it and you can bet if the teams were reversed, it would have been pulled. This isn't club curling. These are not cllub sweepers so they should never burn a rock especially one coming to rest.
You're right. The rule is clear. She had three options.
If the only consideration was acting within the rules I assume you think Rachel was weak for not declaring that she thought both rocks were going to go out and taking them both off?
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| 02-17-18 11:21PM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
You can place the stones where they may reasonably ended up had the infraction not occurred. They can't suddenly defy physics or gain great speed and angle. That being said, I think our little special needs child Watcher 2 has gone nighty night so try not to wake him, he gets all cranky without his sleepy bye.
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| 02-18-18 01:54AM |
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EPMD
Swing Artist
Registered: Jan 2017
Location:
Posts: 202 |
I am very disappointed with how drastic the misses are from Team Homan. Guards coming into the house, virtually open hits crashing on guards, draws coming up short of the house, easy hit and stick shots rolling out of the house...these are not narrow misses at this level. These are misses that get you nothing better than a 5-6 record at the Scotties.
It's quite sad. They have been working so hard for years, and then they did the opposite of peaking at this tournament. It would be miraculous to turn this into a medal now.
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| 02-18-18 02:24AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by watcher2
You know,. I have never heard so much stupidity. The rule is clear. You burn a rock the other team can pull it and you can bet if the teams were reversed, it would have been pulled. This isn't club curling. These are not cllub sweepers so they should never burn a rock especially one coming to rest.
As to sportsmenship, this is the Olympics, full of corruption and all about prestige and money. The rest of the world realizes that. Only Canadians are too stupid to see it. That's why all our teams are under funded.
I agree with the NHL. Just ignore it.
As so eloquently explained by Ajay in his post, Homan didn't so much follow the rule as take advantage of it for her own selfish gain.
The rule is there to allow for the non-offending team to choose fairness and sportsmanship above a penalty which is too severe for the infraction - not for the non-offending team to impose a penalty which is completely out of proportion with the infraction. Sadly - and embarrassingly to Canadians - Homan chose the latter.
Even more important than any rule - no matter how well or how poorly written the rule is - is integrity. And common sense.
Any honest person with even a small degree of common sense could see that the rock which was touched by the broom was not affected. The rock which was touched was barely moving when it was touched. Neither its trajectory nor its speed was affected. This was incredibly obvious. The touch had no consequence on the outcome of the shot. Therefore, the only fair and proper thing to do, based on honesty and common sense and fair play, is to leave the rock where it is. Removing the rock in this circumstance is taking an unfair advantage - it is the equivalent of cheating.
To people of your ilk, two (or more) wrongs make a 'right', and the ends justify the means... Doing anything to win is your motto. Not anything fair or just - simply anything at all to win.
To more decent people with higher standards, losing honestly and fairly is a far greater achievement than is winning dishonestly and unfairly.
I've always been a fan of Homan's intensity... and I'd love to cheer for the Canadian women's curling team. But after the other day, my conscience simply will no longer allow me to.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by On The Nose on 02-18-18 at 03:38AM
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| 02-18-18 03:52AM |
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JB42
Drawmaster
Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 621 |
to On the Nose
Purely out of curiosity. Were you able to cheer for Team Martin in Vancouver?
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| 02-18-18 04:08AM |
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JB42
Drawmaster
Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 621 |
re Team Martin
For those of you who may be too young to know. Kevin was involved in what was in all probability the most controversial incident in curling history. I.e. When losing to Scotland in the World Championship's round robin he pulled out a couple of old corn brooms so that the ice would be littered with chaff. This was also within the rules, then, but very much against the spirit of the rules.
In the final, down again to Scotland, he again pulled out the corn brooms. And get this he was booed by the crowd, and it was being held in CANADA! Now that's unpopular. Also, good on Canada.
It took Kevin quite a few years to live that one down, but he managed the trick. By the time Vancouver rolled around he was 'The old Bear' and everyone was pulling for him. (Except perhaps On the Nose, I've asked the question.)
I'm sure if Rachel's career follows in the expected trajectory she too will outlast this moment of minor infamy.
Fun Karmic Fact: Martin lost the final, and Rachel lost the game.
Last edited by JB42 on 02-18-18 at 04:20AM
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| 02-18-18 07:53AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
Re: to On the Nose
quote:
Originally posted by JB42
Purely out of curiosity. Were you able to cheer for Team Martin in Vancouver?
Not particularly, no.
I wasn't following curling when Kevin Martin pulled the stunts he is alleged to have pulled (I also heard, from a then member of my club who played against Martin years ago, that Martin was also known for dipping some brooms in 7UP to get them sticky, and he'd use those brooms whenever he wanted to slow the ice down).
People, unfortunately, often have an easy time overlooking defects of character whenever the marketing turns positive. Kind of like how beer commercials show only half the picture - just show the 'fun', etc., and not the complete picture, including family break-ups, drunk driving deaths, etc.
As you mention, Martin became 'The Old Bear' - a nice, comfortable moniker which endeared him to people, kind of like an old favourite uncle. Because people are desperate to believe in things (and people) that are 'larger than life' - even if it requires an illusionary perspective to do so (which it almost always does, of course).
I prefer to assess people on their complete resumé - and not only on the 'nice' stuff or the 'pretty' marketing.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| 02-18-18 08:57AM |
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watcher2
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 63 |
quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
Surely you jest; at calling Earl Morris a bad coach. Have you been living under a rock?
My point she has never listened to anyone. Sometimes there are people out there that DO KNOW what they're talking about.
I was talking about the Homan's coach. As to Earl, I've worked with him and he is not the brightest candle in the window. Anyone who goes through Royal Military College and gets a degree in PT isn't at the top of the square, but he is certainly better that what's-her-name.
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