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Jimbobogie
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 547

Expansion?

This year's Womens' Championship has shown that it's time for Asia to get a third spot in the field...but what about the Southern Hemisphere? Hugh Millikin was the original flag-bearer from Down Under and now there's a dedicated club in New Zealand. We still see Hugh at the World Seniors and for the last 2 years we've seen Hans and "Team Toronto" standing on the podium wearing the "All-Black" (I still think they should perform the Haka, but that's for another post).
But how do these rinks attract sponsorship that is needed in order to allow their younger rinks to get the competition that is only available during their summer months-in the northern hemisphere? I suggest that the only way to even approach the issue of Australia/New Zealand sponsorship is to open a spot at the World's for a "Southern Hemisphere" country. At the moment that would be either Australia or New Zealand, but could be expanded if we see South America or an African country decide to get involved, The "Olympicization" of curling is going to continue to have that effect-witness places like Kazakhstan-they've built a club and have entered international events in Asia...the results are what you'd expect from a first year program, but they're on the ice and will improve.
There are going to be 15 teams in future Briers, so the concept of expansion shouldn't scare anybody.

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Last edited by Jimbobogie on 03-24-16 at 09:37PM

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Old Post 03-24-16 09:32PM
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PeelOfShame
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Aug 2015
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 26

You're forgetting Brazil when you're speaking Southern Hemisphere, so there's already a South American country that's involved in curling. After all, they did send a team to the Mixed Worlds and are sending a duo to Sweden for Mixed Doubles...

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Old Post 03-24-16 10:00PM
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Jimbobogie
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 547

Correct you are...but they had 36 teams, which is a pretty good number when you think about it! That gives even more justification for a Southern Hemisphere bracket. The Brazil team went winless, but the important thing is exposure and the ability to overcome the "Hemisphere" problem.

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Old Post 03-24-16 10:28PM
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 756

Re: Expansion?

quote:
Originally posted by Jimbobogie
now there's a dedicated club in New Zealand..



Not sure that having a dediated club is sufficient reason to get another entry in World Championship

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Old Post 03-24-16 10:45PM
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Kiwi
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 36

While coming from NZ of course I like the idea of more Pacific-Asia slots at Worlds, it's difficult to make a great argument for it without expanding the Worlds field size (which would mean something like a 16 team event and pool play instead of a full RR which I'm sure people would have problems with even though that's quite common in other events).

I *do* think you could make an argument for Europe and Pacific Asia sharing one slot. 3rd placed Pacific Asia country v 8th placed Europe country in a best of seven series or something like that. Winner goes to Worlds. Folks in Europe of course would not be happy about this.

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Old Post 03-25-16 01:30PM
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PeelOfShame
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Aug 2015
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 26

quote:
Originally posted by Kiwi
I *do* think you could make an argument for Europe and Pacific Asia sharing one slot. 3rd placed Pacific Asia country v 8th placed Europe country in a best of seven series or something like that. Winner goes to Worlds. Folks in Europe of course would not be happy about this.


I like this idea - it's similar to how Brazil currently challenges the US for the second "Americas" zone slot, though I think that's a best-of-five when it happens. Though I do still think that expansion at some point soon is probably coming, as more countries become competitive.

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Old Post 03-25-16 01:33PM
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curlky
Swing Artist

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 496

Can someone remind me how the regional breakdown officially goes right now. I know The Americas have 2 spots.

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Old Post 03-25-16 03:30PM
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Phil_D
Drawmaster

Registered: May 2014
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 585

quote:
Originally posted by curlky
Can someone remind me how the regional breakdown officially goes right now. I know The Americas have 2 spots.


2-8-2: Americas-Europe-Asia

Canada
United States
Denmark
Finland
Germany
Italy
Russia
Scotland
Sweden
Switzerland
Japan
Korea

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Old Post 03-25-16 03:39PM
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Kiwi
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 36

Correct. Americas region includes South America. Eight countries currently compete in Pacific Asia (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, China, Korea, Chinese Taipei, Kazakhstan and Hong Kong) and Mongolia seems likely to also start competing. Top 4 make a playoff round, top 2 go to Worlds.

Entries into Euro zone vary a bit year to year but generally 20-30 nations compete in 3 divisions (A,B,C) - they use a promotion / relegation system. Top 7 'A' teams currently go to Worlds, and their 8th place goes to the winner of a crossover game between 8th place A v B division winner.

Canada and the U.S. just show up . Unless Brazil challenges.

And in case anyone was in any doubt at all that the Olympics matter - now that Mixed Doubles is an Olympic discipline - the field size for this years World Mixed Doubles is..... 42 (!) teams.

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Old Post 03-25-16 04:55PM
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CaptMorgan
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 895

Re: Re: Expansion?

quote:
Originally posted by dbsdbs


Not sure that having a dediated club is sufficient reason to get another entry in World Championship



Part of NZís problem is that dedicated club is an hour and a half from any population.
If the sport is to grow in NZ, a club needs to be built in the area with the densest population: Auckland.

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Old Post 03-25-16 05:05PM
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Jimbobogie
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 547

Re: Re: Re: Expansion?

quote:
Originally posted by CaptMorgan


Part of NZís problem is that dedicated club is an hour and a half from any population.
If the sport is to grow in NZ, a club needs to be built in the area with the densest population: Auckland.



Captain-I was hoping that nobody would mention that...

Hans-how many regular ice rinks are being used?
Canada is facing the "opportunity" of expanding the Scotties and Brier fields, due to the less-than-warm reception to our "Challenge Rounds". As you know, major curling events used to utilize 5 sheets of ice on an arena surface. It's possible to have 4 draws a day-it can be done while maintaining 10-end games. Of course, the games could be trimmed to 8 ends like the pro circuit (fire away-I'm burying that suggestion in the Asia/Pacific thread...they already hate me in the US thread!)
One more question-how much of a case was made for regular mixed curling to be included in the Olympics?

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Last edited by Jimbobogie on 03-25-16 at 10:09PM

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Old Post 03-25-16 09:45PM
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Kiwi
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 36

Ok lots of Qs here:

Mixed 4s at Olympics - not much. While Olympics likes mixed gender sports, part of the deal also is that there's a recognised world championship in the discipline. First world mixed 4s was just last year. There's been a world mixed doubles since 2008 (altho Canada hasn't paid much attention to it until the last couple of years). For me, mixed doubles is a better 'new' discipline for Olympics than mixed fours. Doubles is different enough to develop its own specialists and own personalities. Mixed fours would just be more of the same. Doubles games are also shorter and will almost certainly bring new countries into the Olympic curling field .

Rink in Auckland - still working on that one. Land is very expensive there, so that's the main stumbling block to the project. Club there has been exploring possible options for a rink build for over a decade.

I think that championship events (eg worlds, Nationals like a Brier or Scotties or a U.S. Nationals or Swedish championships etc) should be open-minded about pool play and increasing field sizes. We get hung up on the idea of there having to be a full round robin. But lots of sports have big tournament fields but still produce quality champions using a pool play followed by playoffs approach.

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Old Post 03-26-16 01:28PM
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Jimbobogie
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 547

Thanks for the answer. Was there any reaction in the Japanese camp about the second end last night? It sure looked like she had scored the point, although her game was still way off.
Still rooting for Canada but frankly a Japanese win would be great for the game on your side of the world. The TSN folks were singing the praises of the development in Japan.
Make sure you post lots of pictures from the Seniors!

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