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02-16-18 11:04AM
albetts is offline Click Here to See the Profile for albetts Click here to Send albetts a Private Message Find more posts by albetts Add albetts to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
albetts
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Registered: Jan 2006
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I just read this blog by Ben Hebert. A whole lot of new respect for this man. However, I can't imagine his response had it happened to Team Koe. lol

http://www.curling.ca/blog/2018/02/...log-ben-hebert/

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02-16-18 11:09AM
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IMWright
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Registered: Dec 2014
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quote:
Originally posted by albetts


You and I would do that along with a lot of other Canadians. I've never been to the Olympics so I won't and can't honestly say that this was a wrong move. But thanks for your comment.



Exactly. If I was skipping, I'd tap it an inch, even though the stone being there in any way puts me in a worse position; I wouldn't have simply removed it.

Theoretically, it would have been within Homan's right to have said that stone would have doubled both stones out and removed both of them. Within the rules to do that? Yes, In the spirit of the game? No. That's an extreme example that I don't ever think she would do, but it demonstrates that being able to just simply remove it because the rule technically allows it isn't in the spirit of the sport.

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02-16-18 11:12AM
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Love2Curl
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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I am disappointed that Rachel removed the rock, but I am way disappointed in their putrid performance so far. Maybe the pressure is getting to them.

I just hope they can turn it around

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02-16-18 11:43AM
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Foxworthy
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Registered: Dec 2017
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quote:
Originally posted by decade
Also during the 5th end break, Emma's comment about coaches and the teams reaction were completely inappropriate,(albeit likely true) Guess she forgot that she was miked,

I missed this and can't seem to find it in the recap videos. What did she say?

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02-16-18 11:43AM
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bpm
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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The only thing harder than winning Olympic Gold is pleasing the regulars on CurlingZone. Luckily, this is not a CCA mandate, and Teams Homan (the sky is falling and they're jerks!) and Koe (sure, they're 4-0, but they talk too much and they're slow and it's not the way I would do it!) probably won't be reading any of this garbage (my post included). [Also, something about the announcers being awful! Why won't they ever hire a good one! It has literally never happened!]

I still think Canada will win both golds! And I'm done with you people! (I'll be back)

/sarcasm (in case it wasn't obvious...I think someone asked for this one time)

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02-16-18 12:14PM
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Observer
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I don't know what the coaching situation and rules are in the Olympics. If a team truly is having trouble with their coach and there's a dispute, is it like other sports where the coach can do things like bench a player or command that they do something the coach's way? Or are the teams free to ignore the coach completely and decide the line-up themselves?

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02-16-18 12:34PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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KARMA

Now, go Canada go

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02-16-18 12:49PM
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curlerbroad
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Oh dear - burnt rock gate is now the top headline on CBC's website.

Quick another Canadian win gold!!! Where's Earle!?! (Homan's old coach)

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02-16-18 12:51PM
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nelski
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We are mostly curlers here and we know how the mental game can totally blow it for us. Renee is qualified, and so is Cheryl, in her way. And their own coach. Everyone wants the team to fly, but there needs to be a release. The look on Rachel Homan's face on the Olympics page, showing her after the loss is all-telling. Darkness where levity needs to lurk. Can her team mates or her family help her through? As curlers, we know where she has gone and only loving the game, win or lose, can bring her back. Good luck Team Homan. Go Canada Go.

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02-16-18 01:32PM
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prairie guy
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quote:
Originally posted by albetts


GERRY: We really do need a like button.



And a really strong dislike button. Still cheering for our flag but that choice of Homan's was so wrong....

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02-16-18 01:40PM
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Deliverer
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" I really, really, really hope they understand how very unsportman like pulling that rock was.." JB42

Normally every person will get a lot from their life if they are humble and respectful of others because it's part of the social contract. But are professional sports part of that contract? If you are a professional athlete playing in a hyper competitive sport, watched by the whole world, that pays big bucks, a small amount of hubris will go a long way. But when it's applied to professional sportsmanship, it is just an illusion. Professionals have only one job, namely: follow the rules and win.

Frankly, I think it is totally disingenuous to pretend that sportsmanship is somehow a driving force in sports. It isn't. It's showmanship. Showmanship is why we watch sports on tv or elsewhere. Showmanship is exciting and it is only when we start feeling guilty about it that we try to impose real life on sports. Sportsmanship is for kids; showmanship is for adult sports fans.

While removing that rock was, of course, technically within the rules established umpteen years ago, rules which Schmirler always took advantage of, let me ask you and all the other "holier - than - you posters:

If the burned rock just happened to be the final rock of the game, AND the game-winning rock, would you still allow sportsmanship to prevail
and hand the win to a team which had violated the existing rules of the game?

I sure as hell hope not!!

Finally, the two sweepers, as well as the Skip, were all very aware When that rock was burned. To be correct, to be ethical, to be professional, that rock should have been removed immediately - while the rock was still in motion - before Homan could even blink.

Shame on the Danes.

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02-16-18 02:03PM
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dugless_zone 13
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Most definitely the rock should not have been pulled by the Danes, inside the near hogline all rocks have to come to rest. Then the options kick in. Leave everything as is, place the rocks where they think they would have finished had the infraction not occurred or remove the rock and replace all the other rocks as near as possible to their original position. Yes this is the non offending teams choice but the touch had absolutely no effect on the shot as it happened right at the end. There is the spirit of the game and I have seen Koe in a Brier game overrule the eye on the hog when it indicated a violation that was clearly wrong and let a player rethrow a shot. Sometimes what the rule allow you to do doesn't mean it is the proper thing to do.

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02-16-18 02:06PM
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curlerbroad
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Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
" I really, really, really hope they understand how very unsportman like pulling that rock was.." JB42

Normally every person will get a lot from their life if they are humble and respectful of others because it's part of the social contract. But are professional sports part of that contract? If you are a professional athlete playing in a hyper competitive sport, watched by the whole world, that pays big bucks, a small amount of hubris will go a long way. But when it's applied to professional sportsmanship, it is just an illusion. Professionals have only one job, namely: follow the rules and win.

Frankly, I think it is totally disingenuous to pretend that sportsmanship is somehow a driving force in sports. It isn't. It's showmanship. Showmanship is why we watch sports on tv or elsewhere. Showmanship is exciting and it is only when we start feeling guilty about it that we try to impose real life on sports. Sportsmanship is for kids; showmanship is for adult sports fans.

While removing that rock was, of course, technically within the rules established umpteen years ago, rules which Schmirler always took advantage of, let me ask you and all the other "holier - than - you posters:

If the burned rock just happened to be the final rock of the game, AND the game-winning rock, would you still allow sportsmanship to prevail
and hand the win to a team which had violated the existing rules of the game?

I sure as hell hope not!!

Finally, the two sweepers, as well as the Skip, were all very aware When that rock was burned. To be correct, to be ethical, to be professional, that rock should have been removed immediately - while the rock was still in motion - before Homan could even blink.

Shame on the Danes.



Well put Deliverer - something that all of us curling etiquette experts are forgetting, the team that burns the rock is supposed to own up to it...and accept the decision of the opposition with grace. I guess with no medals - Denmark needs to do all they can to get one. I noticed that CBC has taken down the burnt rock story. And replaced it with a much better one - Kevin's indigenous heritage.

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02-16-18 02:58PM
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decade
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Deliverer may not know the rules but come on CurlerBroad, you know that a touched stone cannot be stopped by the offending team
after the far hog line ( check your rule book)

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02-16-18 03:28PM
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nelsosi
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Registered: Mar 2012
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quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
Finally, the two sweepers, as well as the Skip, were all very aware When that rock was burned. To be correct, to be ethical, to be professional, that rock should have been removed immediately - while the rock was still in motion - before Homan could even blink.

If you're going to go on a big rant, you should at least know the rules. It's clear from this paragraph that you don't.

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02-16-18 03:43PM
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Curling fan
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: BC
Posts: 78

I'm in BC,and had to get up at 5 am for work.I watched till the end of the 8th,went to sleep content that Canada had this game in hand.Was shocked when I checked the score this morning.
To say that they need to win tonight is an understatement,It will either be the beginning of a long way back,or the end of their Olympic dream.
Personally I'm no great fan of Team Homan, but of course as Team Canada I'm cheering for them.

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02-16-18 03:43PM
curlerbroad is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlerbroad Click here to Send curlerbroad a Private Message Find more posts by curlerbroad Add curlerbroad to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlerbroad
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Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by decade
Deliverer may not know the rules but come on CurlerBroad, you know that a touched stone cannot be stopped by the offending team
after the far hog line ( check your rule book)



My point was that the offending team should not have a problem with the other team making a decision...

Section 9 of the rules:
Inside the hog line at the playing end: (a) If a moving stone is touched, or is caused to be touched, by the team to which it belongs, or by its equipment, all stones are allowed to come to rest, after which the non-_‐offending team has the option to remove the touched stone and replace all stones that were displaced after the infraction to their original positions; or leave all stones where they came to rest; or place all stones where it reasonably considers the stones would have come to rest had the moving stone not been touched.

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02-16-18 03:47PM
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biterbar
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Obviously you don't know the rules nor have you seen the incident. The Danish skip pointed it out immediately. Homan walked up, shoved it out of the way with her broom and the Dane had to go and retrieve it from the field of play.

Shame on the Danes? She didn't say a word. Unless standing there stunned a breach of protocol. Any lack of grace in that end was totally by Homan.

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02-16-18 05:01PM
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misty1
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im no have of team homan but it's quite disgusting to see how easily canadians turn on them. not just here but some of the stuff on twitter is just unreal

do i believe she should have left the rock alone? yes but i won't attack her for it

game against the US might be make or break it. in this field 4 losses could get something but does this team have the resiliance to recover from 0-4 down.

like i said they havent had to deal with anything like this before so it will be interesting to watch how they respond

it won't be easy tonight. nina roth will not be afraid. she's very goof technically and mentally strong as a rock. nothing seems to frazzle her. she's also one of the best at the draw/soft weight shot in the world today. if she's on her game she'll give rachel all she can handle. in the 2 times she's played rachel she has given her everything she could. there's no reason to think tonight will be any different.

Last edited by misty1 on 02-16-18 at 05:09PM

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02-16-18 05:13PM
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fresca
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biggest brain poop in years - lucky for her she lost the game

she needs to apoligize and admit she made a bad decision while under a huge amount of stress

then she ( and the team ) needs to carry themselves with class and dignity the rest of the week

wont be easy but she might retain her sponsors - she is not an image that most corporations want to be associated with in todays world

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02-16-18 05:14PM
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RaiseDoubleFTW
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
"Professionals have only one job, namely: follow the rules and win.


Other's have addressed your ludicrous comment about how the Dane's should have removed the rock immediately. I'd like to point out why the above part of your post is incorrect.

I did have a whole diatribe about the intent of rules etc, but it comes down to this:

If Homan had said "I think the shooter was going to push shot stone out the back and then roll out the side, so I am taking both out of play." that would have been 100% 'within the rules'.

Are you saying that you would have agreed with her doing that?

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02-16-18 05:48PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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The post-match interviews were predictable but interesting. Homan doubled down on her decision by telling Colleen Jones that they have had their rocks removed before when they burned them so she felt justified removing this rock. Dupont said that she has never seen anyone outright remove a rock in that situation and that karma will get them eventually.

But I agree with others upthread...the real shock is how many key shots Rachel has missed. Her last shot against Sweden (draw came about 6 feet too deep) was overswept and amateurish, and her last shots against Denmark (ordinary takeouts) were worse than club level.

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02-16-18 06:07PM
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Manitoba Legend
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I'm not writing Rachel off just yet - because we all know that at any given position they're #1 or #2 (at worst) in the country.

Jones might be a slightly better big-game hunter than Raytch but JJ's percentages are continually lower than RH

Emma & Kaitlyn Lawes are about equal. Kaitlyn is far more square to the broom and has a technically flawless delivery vs. Miskew's M-Spin at release. 112 lb. Kaitlyn is surprisingly a superior brusher than 165 lb. Emma.

Courtney is surprisingly more powerful than any women's curler in Canada - Officer is a close 2nd. percentage wise they both have challenges - Courtney is under intense scrutiny in Korea.

Weagle is 2nd best lead in Canada behind Dawn, no question.

When we see them again you won't know whether they've lost 3 in a row or won the inter-planetary curling championship on Mars. They're that focused, if nothing else.

Chances are reduced, of course.

My chances of Team RH winning a medal currently sit at around 27% - at beginning of week I had them near 90%. If they lose to USA their chances go from 28% to under 10% (tie-breaker chaos)

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02-16-18 06:08PM
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On The Nose
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quote:
Originally posted by IMWright


Me, pouting? Nope. Doesn't impact me. I'm just making an observation and thinking in the honor, etiquette, and spirit of the sport, what was done does not meet that standard. Within her right and rules to do it? Yes. Being in the honor, etiquette, and spirit of the sport, nope.

And calling someone an ahole makes you even more classless. Better that than a troll, I suppose.


^ Good post.
Jamcan loves to go around these boards calling people all sorts of names. Clearly, it's how he makes his immature and insecure self feel 'better'.
Anyone who's read jamcan's posts on this Forum cannot be at all surprised that what decent people view as being classless and wrong, jamcan considers wonderful.

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02-16-18 06:30PM
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CURLER1
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quote:
Originally posted by RaiseDoubleFTW


Other's have addressed your ludicrous comment about how the Dane's should have removed the rock immediately. I'd like to point out why the above part of your post is incorrect.

I did have a whole diatribe about the intent of rules etc, but it comes down to this:

If Homan had said "I think the shooter was going to push shot stone out the back and then roll out the side, so I am taking both out of play." that would have been 100% 'within the rules'.

Are you saying that you would have agreed with her doing that?




The Dane's should have removed their rock immediately, you say? Well they didn't have time to even breathe and Homan had it out of there. They certainly didn't have a chance to remove it.

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