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Manitoba Legend
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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Arkham House
Posts: 7447

Fantasy Team Upgrades ???

A bit of a fantasy thread as we wait for the mens world to arrive. Lets get the hater posts out of the way - ie. folks who hate talking curling = why are they here then?

Anyways, I have two fantasy upgrades for next season, both in the womens division and one wild fantasy upgrade for the mens. Remember, the chances of any of these happening are zero to minimal but still some of this is worthy of discussion. (from the people who actually take time to discuss and not to degrade)

1. Rachel Homan - I wonder if there's any thought possible about moving Alison Kreviazuk up to third and placing Emma at second, in essence a position switch. Ali seems to have at least the touch, accuracy and savvy as Emma. In fact on certain shots, Ali looked superior. Emma's shots are usually basic - open hits or draws so perhaps Ali's superior touch could be an upgrade. Other problem is that Ali has no recent history at the back end and the switch might be very controversial, albeit just for the sake of switching!

2. Jennifer Jones - another position switch as I think only pregnancy or injury will curtail the current 4 members from replacement. My fantasy upgrade might be Kaitlyn Lawes throwing last bricks with Jennifer still calling the game and making 3rd throws. Jenny looked atrociously shaken pitted up against young monster homan while Lawes was fighting like a dog to keep JJ in the game. Lawes is also becoming a natural leader under JJ's tutelage. I think this move is even less likely than Ali & Emma switching spots. Jones is far too proud a champion to succeed team control to Lawes, even if Lawes is able to withstand the potential onslaught by wolves like Homan. JJ will take one of her final waltzes as skip and last-rock thrower, even if it becomes clear that Kaitlyn is ready to move up.

3. This is why they pay me the big coin. Here's a fantasy upgrade for the ages. It involves Team Stoughton. Lets say Jeff is starting to show signs of wear and tear as he turns 50 soon. He really looked dazed and confused when a group of youngsters (Jacobs Gang) pelted him with precise and imaginative shots. Lets say Jeff decides he can no longer throw big shots under pressure but still wants to have a good chance of getting his last potential Olympic trip. Lets also say Brad Gushue fails to score his trials spot at the pre-trials. Here's the fantasy switch. Jeff brings Gushue aboard to toss last rock, even calls the game while Jeff takes the fifth spot. IMAGINE THAT?
The guy Jeff Stoughton said could never win the Olympic spot not only replaces Jeff on the tee, but the third on that team, remains at second. It would be a hard pill for Jeff to swallow and it would have to be his call, cuz I don't see a palace revolt around the greatest curling champion manitoba has ever produced (other than Ken Watson, of course).

Brad Gushue, the olympic gold medallist arrives in wpg without his own team but as Stoughton's upgrade, giving new meaning to the term 'Mercenary'. However, with the trials being held in Winnipeg, Brad Gushue, the man from the rock could transform himself into one of the greatest curling heroes in Manitoba curling, guiding Team Stoughton to the Olympics. We can't forget that Jeff is 50 and looked shell-shocked in the Brier final. Goo has been there before, he's won gold and he was the top skip at this year's brier before running into a wall during the playoffs. Chances of this happening are about 1 in five billion light years. So there's a chance, huh?

I do know this. Stoughton has a spot. Brad doesn't. If something happened to Jeff (injury) and he couldn't shoot then who would replace him. OK, McEwen is from Manitoba but I suspect Mad Mike might have his own spot. Rob Fowler? Perhaps?

But my money would be on the man they call Goo, our last curling Olympic hero getting the call! Would Brad accept? You bet? Would he do well? THats another matter but if he curls like he did at this year's brier with Jon Mead his third and his old buddy, Mark Nichols on the front side it would be a competition for the ages. (In Scotland they've already done something similar with Dave Murdoch injected onto Tom Brewster's squad)

Any other fantasy team upgrades you can think of?

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Old Post 03-28-13 06:59PM
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doubletakeout
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Registered: Feb 2005
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1. No.
2. No.
3. Hell no, and you citing Murdoch/Brewster as a model to emulate is beyond laughable.

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Old Post 03-28-13 07:21PM
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1) NO! The Homan Machine is just fine and is a force to be reckon with. As it is, they can probably knock out a fair number of Mens team on the World Curling Tour and might be able to scare the Big 4 (Howard, Martin, Stoughton and Koe).

2) NO! Katlyn Lawes will end up skipping her own rink at some point especially if Jennifer Jones permanently moves to Ontario after 2014. If you want to play fantasy, what if Brent Laing moves to Manitoba? Who would he play for?

3) Can't see it unless Rob calls the game and throws the 3rd stone. More likely, Jeff would grab Garth Smith and have his team move up one position. Having said that, with the good run Fowler had at Victoria recently with his new 2nd, they will be the team to watch for next year especially if all 4 shoot lights out consistently.

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Old Post 03-28-13 07:38PM
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Manitoba Legend
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The last unregistered poster makes some good points. If I were JJ I'd try to put incredible pressure on Emma Miskew. If anyone watched the world womens, that was the one Canadian player who looked shaky, at times.

However, in order to torque up the pressure on Miskew, Jones would need Jill Officer to torment Alison Kreviazuk. Thats not gonna happen. Jill can still toss slightly bigger weight than Ali but thats about it. Ali is a superior precision curler and her takeouts are spot on. Very little chance Officer torments Ali K, thus leaving Miskew easier shots at the back end.

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Old Post 03-28-13 09:43PM
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J-Ho
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Registered: Jan 2005
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1. NO, Homan's team needs no tweaking. To be blunt, Homan throws and makes that double the next 999.9 times she throws it. That's the only reason they aren't world champs right now.

2. No, I see KL moving on before a switch like that occurs.

3. Hell ya! (Just Kiddin...Naw)

JH

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Old Post 03-29-13 03:45AM
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Manitoba Legend
Supreme Champion!

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Arkham House
Posts: 7447

J-HO - consensus seems to favour Homan keeping her lineup the way it is; Ali K may have surpassed Emma in proficiency but she's the best second out there by a country mile, Miskew is a very good third (although there's a few who are better) so unless Emma deteriorates she's safe. Not safe however, from plots from Jones, Nedohin, Lawton, Horgan, Scott, etc. who now become the hunters and Homan becomes the hunted. In other words the new book on Homan is to do everything you can to torque up the degree of difficulty on the third's shots.

With respect to JJ - this gal will do anything to win! Her record of upgrading at all positions (except 2nd) is there for all to see. However, she still has the best lead in the game (Askin) a quality 2nd (who misses enough to set up both Lawes and Jones with so-called hero shots), the best young third in the game (Lawes) and JJ probably still has more to give than she showed in the Scotties final. JJ will do anything to get that Olympic spot BUT swapping throwing positions with Lawes is NOT one of them, even if Lawes is now the more consistent shooter, hitter of the stick, etc.

The Stoughton thing is pure folly. Only happens if Jeff gets injured and Brad doesn't qualify in pre-trials.

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Old Post 03-29-13 09:58AM
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Shawzy
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Registered: Mar 2013
Location: London, Canada
Posts: 9

I might be getting a little far ahead, but this thread has sparked some speculation on my behalf about what happens post-Trials.

Once the Trials are settled teams will be gearing up for the next four-year cycle and will be looking to put together the best teams possible for a run in 2018. As such, I assume much swapping of colours (and possibly positions) will ensue, both with the women and the men.

To further cloud this mix are the futures of Messrs Martin, Howard, and Stoughton. If any of these three retire (I would put odds on at least two retiring post-Sochi), then their teams suddenly become "up for grabs" so to speak. The women also have a few impending retirees (although none quite as close to the drop as the three men), including Kelly Scott, Sherry Anderson, and Colleen's crew (to name a few).

So, that being said, I'm going to offer some predictions of my own for the post-Trials fall-out. Some are more realistic than others.

1) Martin and Howard retire. John Morris teams back up with Laing and Savill in Ontario, with Savill possibly at third (where he played in Junior days). The last player on that team is either Scott Howard (playing front end) or another young-gun from Ontario (think Mark Kean or Matt Camm playing third). In the West, Kennedy moves up the order to either third or skip, but sticks with Hebert, although I can't think of who would play with them (possibly Charlie Thomas or Sluchinski??).

2) Team Jones (the Jennifer version) calls it splits. Officer and Askin are both aging by front end standards and are looking at starting families, so they decide to call it a day. Lawes decides to team back up with Meakin, who drags along one or both of Jenna Loder and Ashley Howard. Complicating this is Jennifer's future with Burt Jones (a.k.a. Brent Laing). If Jones decides that Manitoba is where she wants to be, then I can see Lawes sticking with her and Meakin and Howard becoming the new front end (in this case I would see Laing moving to Manitoba and throwing prediction #1 out the window). If Jones decides to move to Ontario, then perhaps a new Ontario super-team is about to be formed.

3) The following teams will stay together, despite certain individuals' propensity for moving pieces around: Jacobs, Gushue, Koe (Kevin), Laycock, Cotter, Homan, Horgan.

4) Pieces will move in Alberta on the women's side. The traditional Alberta powers are falling by the wayside, and there is a queue of young guns ready to take over. However, I think some of the current rinks will get a re-shuffle with perhaps Laura Crocker being the big winner by adding some more talent and experience to an already solid squad.

5) Team Bottcher will drop Karrick Martin and become the main challenger to Koe's Alberta (with the Kennedy rink as posited above abother). Martin might find a new home with some of his dad's old team, but the real winners will be Bottcher, Lizmore, and Thiessen (and whomever they get to play lead).

6) Cathy Overton-Clapham will find a new team, but as a third.

7) Jeff Stoughton will stick around but will call time on Reid Carruthers' time with the team. Potential replacements include Richard Daneault (late of Team Fowler) or, like in the case of Mark Nicholls, an out-of-province ringer as Stoughton aims for one last kick at the can.

Like I said, some of these are more realistic than others and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

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Old Post 03-29-13 04:59PM
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doubletakeout
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Lots of interesting match-ups to consider... not sure if I can see Morris teaming up with Savill/Laing after so many years of animosity as members of rival teams. I think no matter what happens, Manitoba is looking really good for the next four years as well, with McEwen's team still staying strong (and performing really consistently well over the past several seasons) and lots of strong young female players to fill the gap should JJ's team split up.

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Old Post 03-29-13 06:22PM
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Manitoba Legend
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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Arkham House
Posts: 7447

quote:
Originally posted by doubletakeout
Lots of interesting match-ups to consider... not sure if I can see Morris teaming up with Savill/Laing after so many years of animosity as members of rival teams. I think no matter what happens, Manitoba is looking really good for the next four years as well, with McEwen's team still staying strong (and performing really consistently well over the past several seasons) and lots of strong young female players to fill the gap should JJ's team split up.


In curling former enemies will often team up - if it means another sniff at the winner's table! So if Laing/Savvy have had problems with Morris they may develop curling amnesia in order to further their respective careers.

Top curlers also are able to sniff out fresh talent like there's no tomorrow. Exhibit 1 - Jennifer Jones finding out about Kaitlyn Lawes. Exhibit 2 - Kevin Martin finding Marc Kennedy.

Re Officer & Askin. Officer is about 6 or 7 yrs older than Dawn Askin. She'd be 42/43 in the next Olympic cycle so the chances of Jill continuing on is minimal. But if Askin's main squeeze, Mike McEwen continues on (he's only 32 or 33) I can see Dawn catching on with another squad - even serving as Kaitlyn Lawes lead or second. I think Kaitlyn might go with Meakin at third, and if Ash Howard is still in Manitoba, perhaps Howard goes to lead. Don't think it would be smart for Lawes to bring the Loder girls aboard - they don't seem to have great passion for curling.

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Old Post 03-29-13 07:21PM
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Shawzy
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Registered: Mar 2013
Location: London, Canada
Posts: 9

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Don't think it would be smart for Lawes to bring the Loder girls aboard - they don't seem to have great passion for curling.


I mentioned Jenna Loder for the simple fact that she played with Lawes in Junior (and with Meakin and Howard with Cathy O). Whether they would all get together again is another story as last I checked Meakin and Howard had teamed up with two others and not Loder after Cathy O called time.

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Manitoba Legend
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Posts: 7447

Obviously, some of the competitive curlers who read these fantasy upgrades will never respond cuz its a touchy subject until the deed is done.

However, let me remind you younger folks about two of the greatest fantasy upgrades in curling history.

1 Female - 1 Male

1969 - after winning three canadian women's championship as a skip, Canadian champion Joyce McKee moved herself down to second, replacing herself by a curling phenom named Vera Pezer. The new team won several more canadian championships with the revised lineup

1990s - after toiling as a fairly sucessful skip, Randy Ferbey found a shooting machine named David Nedohin, a recent emigree to Alberta (from Manitoba) and their amazing record for Brier wins still stands. Ferbey knew that Nedohin was a virtual curling machine that seldom missed shots. He had no problem demoting himself to third stone, retaining the skip's calls and letting David Ned from Planet Zed (my first CZ nickname) throw final bricks.

Two great examples from curling history where great unselfish curlers did the right thing - and were rewarded for it!!!

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Old Post 03-29-13 10:09PM
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radiowave
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Isn't Crocker supposed to be moving back to Ontario next year? Maybe things have changed....

I don't see Miskew being demoted, her value is much more at third position then just throwing stones. She's great at talking through strategy with Rachel being a former skip herself. It's really a chemistry issue at this point in time, and the chemistry is great. I wouldn't touch it.

Last edited by radiowave on 03-31-13 at 02:15AM

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Old Post 03-31-13 02:12AM
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Crocker, Wilkes and Gates moved to Alberta to curl full time this year and work with Rob Kreps in preparation for the World University Games. The games are in Italy in Dec/13. I think they are moving back to Ontario this curling year.

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Old Post 03-31-13 07:45AM
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Oly M. Pics
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Registered: Mar 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Obviously, some of the competitive curlers who read these fantasy upgrades will never respond cuz its a touchy subject until the deed is done.

However, let me remind you younger folks about two of the greatest fantasy upgrades in curling history.

1 Female - 1 Male

1969 - after winning three canadian women's championship as a skip, Canadian champion Joyce McKee moved herself down to second, replacing herself by a curling phenom named Vera Pezer. The new team won several more canadian championships with the revised lineup

1990s - after toiling as a fairly sucessful skip, Randy Ferbey found a shooting machine named David Nedohin, a recent emigree to Alberta (from Manitoba) and their amazing record for Brier wins still stands. Ferbey knew that Nedohin was a virtual curling machine that seldom missed shots. He had no problem demoting himself to third stone, retaining the skip's calls and letting David Ned from Planet Zed (my first CZ nickname) throw final bricks.

Two great examples from curling history where great unselfish curlers did the right thing - and were rewarded for it!!!



What success did Ferbey ever have as a skip?

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J-Ho
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
However, she still has the best lead in the game (Askin)


I don't know ML, I think that Weagle is on a different level than every other female (and most male!) leads in the world right now. The team has revolutionized the way the scoring zone is controlled and it's all due to her precise shot making. IMHO right now Askin (with all due respect to her) isn't even close!

JH

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Old Post 04-01-13 07:18PM
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radiowave
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^^
Agreed

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Old Post 04-01-13 07:27PM
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jhcurl
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Let's see. Last woman to win GOLD at vice, Cathy O. Prior to that Kim Kelly. So, Lawes, Miskew, not so much. Want a winner, might be time to go "old school" and have someone in the house that actually can understand the game/shot/pressure/etc.

JH
sorry, forgot that I did not understand curling...;-)

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Manitoba Legend
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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Arkham House
Posts: 7447

quote:
Originally posted by J-Ho


I don't know ML, I think that Weagle is on a different level than every other female (and most male!) leads in the world right now. The team has revolutionized the way the scoring zone is controlled and it's all due to her precise shot making. IMHO right now Askin (with all due respect to her) isn't even close!

JH



I think Askin out-scored Weagle at this year's STOH, could be wrong.

Can't judge Weagle on just the one event. Dawn Askin has a tremendously long record of curling excellence at lead.

If just on this year and Rachel hammering Jennifer in the gold medal game, then yeah, all over Lisa.

Right now, its close. If I was drafting a super team today, I'd probably be inclined to pick Lisa if I had first draft pick for leads. I will say the combination of Weagle and Kreviazuk are now superior to Askin/Officer mainly cuz Ali K. is superior to Officer in all categories other than height and body strength.

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Old Post 04-01-13 09:43PM
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J-Ho
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quote:
Originally posted by jhcurl
Let's see. Last woman to win GOLD at vice, Cathy O. Prior to that Kim Kelly. So, Lawes, Miskew, not so much. Want a winner, might be time to go "old school" and have someone in the house that actually can understand the game/shot/pressure/etc.

JH
sorry, forgot that I did not understand curling...;-)



While I do think nerves hit Emma a bit more than the rest of the team, remember the only reason Canada wasn't playing for Gold (and probably winning it) was a shot Homan missed that she makes 99.9% of the time! Emma wasn't the reason they lost...

JH

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