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11-21-15 01:33PM
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Talking Brushgate with Glenn Howard

Yes, Glenn was on the podcast, along with Buck Goodbrand, who directed the Team Howard documentary. We talked to Buck because the film is now available on US platforms and cable outlets and we talked to Glenn because it seems there is some brush controversy in the curling world. Here you go.

http://bit.ly/1HeGkBs

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11-21-15 09:11PM
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Good of Glenn to do the podcast, you raised some good points, but I understand don't want to be too pushy.

Glenn maybe plays the aw shucks integrity of the game too much, he overstates the hardness of the plastic in the icepad and its unfair the way he lumps in the icepad to what into the knockoffs that he has used. He should have made a video comparing different broom heads under the same circumstances to show the difference and not the blackhead.

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11-21-15 10:34PM
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Agree 100% farmcurl. Neat podcast by the way. Thanks for sharing.

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11-21-15 11:54PM
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quote:
Originally posted by farmcurl
Good of Glenn to do the podcast, you raised some good points, but I understand don't want to be too pushy.

Glenn maybe plays the aw shucks integrity of the game too much, he overstates the hardness of the plastic in the icepad and its unfair the way he lumps in the icepad to what into the knockoffs that he has used. He should have made a video comparing different broom heads under the same circumstances to show the difference and not the blackhead.



Listened to the podcast. Know damage control and spin doctoring when I hear it. BP and their teams are feeling the backlash.

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11-22-15 02:27PM
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"integrity"

IMO Glenn shows too much concern for the "integrity" of the game and not nearly enough enough for the "integrity" of his actions, those of his team, and those of his sponsor.

There's been an awful lot of manure on all sides of this issue, but the pile on the BP side is easily the most fragrant, IMO.

~~~

Personally, I would like to see curling go back to corn brooms. This would eliminate all the current brush-head nonsense, and it would also guarantee that conditions would always be a little bit tricky -- making the "simple shots" a bit difficult once again.

And if this happened, (i.e. if peels were no longer automatic), then we could ditch the Free Guard Zone and play the game as it was meant to be played (using the whole rings, not just the button).

It's just my opinion, and I don't expect you to share it, so you don't need to trash me for expressing it.

You don't need to worry about it happening, either. It's such an obvious win-win that it doesn't stand a snowball's chance.

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11-22-15 02:39PM
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The simplest and most logical solution is a moratorium on all synthetic brush heads until testing and analysis can be completed.

Allow only hair brush heads in competitive play during that time.

This too, will also never happen.

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11-22-15 03:10PM
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Jamcan that is one of the simplest solutions but most likely will not fly. I am challenged by all the vitriol that has been posted has been directed at BP and HL. I feel like most of these posts have come from HL directly in defense of their product. Can we get back to making this about the game.
Why does any team need a technological edge to try and beat the other team? Hasn't this been one of the great things about our sport in the last 25 years. Its been about shotmaking.
In the early 2000's we had LaRoque and Pfiefer that introduced a new element of good sweeping. Hebert and Kennedy took it to the next level and the Snappers even further yet.
Now we have let a technological element supercede brawn and make those former guys look silly. Next thing you know Middaugh and Corner will think they can make a comeback as frontenders and take a run with the Howards.
We need to discuss this on an elementary level as to what is acceptable? First from a product side. What can the players use that they feel is a level playing field. Fabric and Pad.
Secondly, the rules. The WCF sweeping rule has the following caveat which the Canadian rule does not have:
The sweeping motion is in a side-to-side direction (it need not cover the entire width of the stone), deposits no debris in front of a moving stone, and finishes to either side of the stone.

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11-22-15 04:39PM
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quote:
Originally posted by My three sons
Jamcan that is one of the simplest solutions but most likely will not fly. I am challenged by all the vitriol that has been posted has been directed at BP and HL. I feel like most of these posts have come from HL directly in defense of their product.


Do you mean HL has written most of the posts on this forum? That would be alleging sock puppets which I think would be a very serious allegation.

quote:
Can we get back to making this about the game.
Why does any team need a technological edge to try and beat the other team? Hasn't this been one of the great things about our sport in the last 25 years. Its been about shotmaking.
In the early 2000's we had LaRoque and Pfiefer that introduced a new element of good sweeping. Hebert and Kennedy took it to the next level and the Snappers even further yet.
Now we have let a technological element supercede brawn and make those former guys look silly. Next thing you know Middaugh and Corner will think they can make a comeback as frontenders and take a run with the Howards.


But that's all a hypothetical, the front ends who have been having success with the HL still sweep like elite front ends.

As for Middaugh and Corner remember back in 2002 when Martin went to the Olympics with Don Bartlett at lead, a 42 year old with a bad back. I suspect that team put in today's field would still be an elite team. Imagine they were playing and using IcePads, how many people would be pointing to them as "proof" that the IcePad made elite sweepers irrelevant?

quote:
We need to discuss this on an elementary level as to what is acceptable? First from a product side. What can the players use that they feel is a level playing field. Fabric and Pad.


To know what is acceptable we need to know what is possible, and we really don't.

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11-23-15 02:06AM
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quote:
Originally posted by My three sons
I am challenged by all the vitriol that has been posted has been directed at BP and HL. I feel like most of these posts have come from HL directly in defense of their product.


I've used both brooms. Like them both.

I don't have a problem with Goldline, Asham, Performance or Olson. They've all kept a low profile and from what I've heard in Goldline's case, were trying to be helpful and honour the spirit of curling through all this.

Hardline I have zero problems with as well. They're getting smeared by a moving standard that seems arbitrary and punitive, and seems to driven, not by the sporting associations, but by specific sponsored teams (and, quite likely their curling equipment sponsor). They weren't breaking the rules, they did everything they could to makes sure what they were doing was acceptable and now suddenly they're getting smeared.

My anger at Balance Plus and some of their sponsor teams is in their actions over this whole issue. Their actions have been summarized at length elsewhere, so I won't repeat them. Needless to say, I won't be buying any Balance Plus products ever again, and I know many others feel the same.

I'm not employed or sponsored by any curling company. So don't assume that I'm a Hardline employee or sponsored curler because we are calling out Balance Plus and their sponsored teams (and the WCF and Curling Canada for that matter) for their questionable ethics on how they approached this whole issue.

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11-23-15 12:26PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JustAnotherHack


I've used both brooms. Like them both.

I don't have a problem with Goldline, Asham, Performance or Olson. They've all kept a low profile and from what I've heard in Goldline's case, were trying to be helpful and honour the spirit of curling through all this.

Hardline I have zero problems with as well. They're getting smeared by a moving standard that seems arbitrary and punitive, and seems to driven, not by the sporting associations, but by specific sponsored teams (and, quite likely their curling equipment sponsor). They weren't breaking the rules, they did everything they could to makes sure what they were doing was acceptable and now suddenly they're getting smeared.

My anger at Balance Plus and some of their sponsor teams is in their actions over this whole issue. Their actions have been summarized at length elsewhere, so I won't repeat them. Needless to say, I won't be buying any Balance Plus products ever again, and I know many others feel the same.

I'm not employed or sponsored by any curling company. So don't assume that I'm a Hardline employee or sponsored curler because we are calling out Balance Plus and their sponsored teams (and the WCF and Curling Canada for that matter) for their questionable ethics on how they approached this whole issue.



Couldn't have said it better myself

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11-23-15 01:20PM
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Agree and this is a common sentiment. Great summary Nov 23 by Dean Gemmel via Twitter.

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11-25-15 01:46PM
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quote:
Originally posted by shaqdaddy
Agree and this is a common sentiment. Great summary Nov 23 by Dean Gemmel via Twitter.


Dean is a decent and articulate guy and makes a lot of good points in his Twitter summary.

I don't agree with him entirely on his views towards Balance Plus and their sponsored teams, as I feel like they crossed the line, repeatedly, with their actions. And that is why I won't be supporting them in the future, which is really the only effective way I can voice my disapproval of a company's actions.

But I do understand the reasoning behind what they did, even if I despise they actions.

Well, this is only going to get more and more interesting as the lawsuits start to fly.

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11-25-15 03:28PM
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Have to agree. Threatening to shame and harass teams using a competitors product over untested and unproven allegations goes completely against the spirit of the game and goods sportsmanship.

Their actions look increasingly bad as the teams they finger ed (McEwen and Gushue ) changed their brooms and continue to win.

As much as I hope it doesn't happen, a part of me wishes Hardline does take legal action.

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11-25-15 04:47PM
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Glenn should be careful w integrity of game comments re brushes. They've announced they will curl out of St Georges Toronto for play downs. While Middaugh had life membership there due to world title, this is a parachute move. Likely to avoid bad ice in smaller towns in their Penetang/Midland region. This was a big problem last year. High integrity? Hmmmm

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11-25-15 06:14PM
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quote:
Originally posted by shaqdaddy
Glenn should be careful w integrity of game comments re brushes. They've announced they will curl out of St Georges Toronto for play downs. While Middaugh had life membership there due to world title, this is a parachute move. Likely to avoid bad ice in smaller towns in their Penetang/Midland region. This was a big problem last year. High integrity? Hmmmm


Meh... teams jump around different clubs all the time (in Ontario) for zones/regionals anyway. If you pay the fees, play out of any club you want.

Switching clubs to gain an advantage of some sort is a risky move anyway. It doesn't always work out in the way you may want... so if what your claiming is their reason for switching is correct, it still isn't a guarantee that qualifying is going to be any easier.

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11-26-15 12:33AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
Have to agree. Threatening to shame and harass teams using a competitors product over untested and unproven allegations goes completely against the spirit of the game and goods sportsmanship.

Their actions look increasingly bad as the teams they finger ed (McEwen and Gushue ) changed their brooms and continue to win.

As much as I hope it doesn't happen, a part of me wishes Hardline does take legal action.



I am not a fan of the notion of shaming or harassing teams, so I agree there.

But the point about McEwen and Gushue is meaningless. Glenn said in the podcast they could win with whatever. Doesn't mean they should have any extra advantages (I'm not saying Hardline teams had any extra advantages, but the Howard team, and many other, obviously felt like they did).

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11-26-15 10:58AM
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What about when team Howard asked Team Laycock to change brooms and not use there hardline brooms at one of the Slams and Laycock said No.
Why should Laycock not use the company that is sponsoring him? Howard could have used Hardline broom if they thought it would have given them an advantage but I do not think Balance Plus would have approved.

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Curling Scores

M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M7 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00pm CT
Lannoye Final
Hebert (10) Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald 10th
Cenzalli  Watch Live Curling!
Brenden Final
Church (9) Watch Live Curling!
Guentzel Final
Rose (6) Watch Live Curling!
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 4:00pm CT
Berg Final
Scheel (10) Watch Live Curling!
Berg Final
Schapman (10) Watch Live Curling!
Giroux 10  Final
Pekowitz (9) Watch Live Curling!
Viau Final
Johnson (10) Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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