Forums Menu

User: 
Pass:  

Curling Scores

M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M5 -- Wed, Mar 27 -- 7:00pm CT
Fitzgerald Final
Guentzel (10) Watch Live Curling!
Cenzalli Final
Rose (10) Watch Live Curling!
Church Final
Lannoye (10) Watch Live Curling!
Hebert Final
Brenden (9) Watch Live Curling!
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W5 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00am CT
Giroux 4th
Schapman  Watch Live Curling!
Johnson 4th
Scheel  Watch Live Curling!
Berg 4th
Viau  Watch Live Curling!
Pekowitz 4th
Berg  Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
Full Scoreboard  |  Play Fantasy Pick'em!  
Disclaimer: CurlingZone does not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any Content posted on any Forums area and you acknowledge that any reliance upon such Content shall be at your sole risk. Any Content placed on any Forums area by users and anonymous posters are the views of the user posting the statement, and do not represent the views of CurlingZone or our partners, advertisers or sponsors. By posting anonymously, you are allowing your IP address to be displayed for identification purposes. CurlingZone reserves the right to remove any post at its discretion without warning or explanation.
Page 2 of 3 -- Go to: ««   | 1 | 2 | 3 | »»   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread   Post A Reply
09-01-14 10:10PM
JustAnotherHack is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JustAnotherHack Click here to Send JustAnotherHack a Private Message Find more posts by JustAnotherHack Add JustAnotherHack to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

I'll keep it short... I'm still enjoying the last few hours of my summer.

But I'll say this... guys like Larry (lolar3288) and so forth are part of the problem and are part of the reason why the sport does suffer.

Look, I'll be the first to admit that the CCA/OCA/Curl BC (the associations I have experience with) have their issues (I have to admit, I have been impressed with the OVCA though). But when they try to do something positive all these guys do is snipe and bellyache from the sidelines with unrealistic view points and dreams of the way curling was 20-30 years ago.

Curling is evolving. There is really two (well, three) types of curling now... elite level, competitive (the "B" thru "D" teams and players) and social. Clubs have a role to play to support all types of curlers, as do the associations. The CCA finally has a summit to talk about the issues at hand. And yes, they did put it on, and yes, there is a cost associated with attending... which is about the same for every conference. This one was cheap in comparison to most. They try to do something proactive about the future of curling in Canada, and instead of bringing productive ideas to the table, all we get is the usual complaints, bitching and whining, with idiotic points and poor understanding of how sporting associations (in general) function in this day and age.

I don't blame Gerry for calling them on it. Was it the best way to handle it, probably not. But was it deserved? Absolutely.

If any of us want to change where we see curling going, then come up with some productive ideas that people can go along with and support. And build that support, through things like this summit and through your local club and associations. And get over the fact curling is never going back to the way it was... now we need to find the best way to make it successful for the future.

(And thanks Gerry for linking the presentation)

__________________
Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
- Calvin (Calvin & Hobbs)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-01-14 10:36PM
JustAnotherHack is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JustAnotherHack Click here to Send JustAnotherHack a Private Message Find more posts by JustAnotherHack Add JustAnotherHack to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by gameon

The biggest fact Ive learned over the past twenty years was that we didnt do it right after it was realized that marketing was needed by the sport if we were going to increase and flourish. I think most would agree from looking at the dwindling numbers buying memberships that curling is on a decline. Curling clubs are busy and all of their resources are almost entirely committed to the day-to-day operation of the club. I dont think I can say it loud enough clubs dont have the money to promote curling and it has to be done at the national and provincial levels!!!



I agree with you, but to a point.

First, almost all sports are suffering from declining numbers, so this issue isn't unique to curling. I think it's been a longer decline for curling though... but with all the competition for sports these days, curling is just one of many that is struggling at the grassroots level.

The demographics of Canada has changed, significantly in many areas, and curling never changed with them. So now we have to play catch up.

A national level promotion of curling is really important, and that's the first message many people get. The CCA and provincial association have to take the lead in promoting the sport nationally.

But the clubs have to play a role too. Once the tv and national media spots have peaked someone's interest, the local clubs have to show that they have a place for new curlers to come in and try the sport.

And some clubs, well, I'm sorry to say, they treat new curlers like they're an annoyance rather than essential to their long term survival. Especially in the past... but even as little as 4-5 years ago this was an issue.

Now, many (I'd like to say most) clubs are trying to come up with ways to draw and keep new curlers in the building, and to try to make the sport fun and interesting for them. We can't just assume that the game and a rink is all we need... we need to find ways to make it easy for new players to participate. Things like delivery aides for new curlers, modified leagues (say that run only 8 weeks, or provide instruction, or some other option) and drop-in times are what clubs need to do to get those new curlers in the door, and hopefully get them to stay.

Local clubs can advertise in local media (there are a lot of free/cheap options) and let people know that they can come to the rink and give it a try after seeing the ads on tv. And they have to make it accessible if they want these people to stay.

The national and provincial associations have a duty to advertise the game on the grand scale. The clubs, if they are to succeed, have to do it on the local scale. Without both parts in place, it's doomed to fail.

__________________
Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
- Calvin (Calvin & Hobbs)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-02-14 10:54AM
lolar3288 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for lolar3288 Click here to Send lolar3288 a Private Message Find more posts by lolar3288 Add lolar3288 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
lolar3288
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638

Very well said Gameon.

Gerry, like it or not, CCA and OCA have done little or nothing for the average curling club. You say anyone who takes a critical view is just negative, well I will counter with maybe we just need to look at reality.

You claim this conference was an attempt at communication as to what the club issues are and a look for solutions? It has been posted on this site and repeated ad nauseam to the point where it should be chiselled in rock, Clubs need..... money for stuff like proper staffing, infrastructure funding and advertising with promotion for membership and the sport in general! All other issues are small potatoes in comparison. CCA and OCA know very well what the issues are or at least they should. The problem comes with the philosophy they present in that the clubs need to solve the problems themselves and they, OCA and CCA are no more than facilitators. They just don't seem to get that CCA and OCA exist because of the clubs, not the other way around, so they need to be feet first into the battle.

Positives, CCA created the club grant program but it was way too little to address the huge problem of club funding, and I refer to infrastructure funding for the most part.

OCA creates a loan program that includes interest. If the clubs had the ability to pay money back they could get a loan anywhere, including from their own members, which some clubs have done!

OCA even has a designated fund for advertising and promotion yet they have not spent from it. Do they have an advertising committee and a commitment to support it with actual cash?

Obviously, increase membership and the money problems go away, like any business, the more paying customers you have the healthier the business.

Curling isn't like selling cereal, I beg to differ, selling is selling. Advertising is advertising. To sell something you need to create a need in the mind of the potential buyer. That is promotion 101. Any top promoter will tell you that to be successful you need to create a need in the eyes of the customer and a belief that only you can fill that need. How, well that's not my field of expertise.

CCA and OCA also need to think about the rules they make and how it effects THE CLUB LEVEL.

Getting in bed with the CAC may have been a good political move and created a hand shake agreement for grant building but it hurt the club level with mandatory coach certification. Clubs run on volunteers. Good volunteers (even bad volunteers) are dammed hard to get and it is getting harder with all the demands people have on their time. Most clubs have to twist arms just to get a full Board of Directors. Having to go for training which has no use beyond curling and pay for it to boot is just not going to happen. You get, thanks, I'd love to help but I'm not certified! I have seen too many junior programs and junior teams fall apart for lack of volunteer support. And now they are trying to promote paid coaches? Are they that far out of touch? The training idea was great, of course better training usual leads to a better product but it should have been voluntary and it should have been free, paid for with some of that government grant money.

This post is long enough but Gerry there are some suggestions in regard to a positive response and they are all repeats of what I have said before.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-02-14 03:49PM
gameon is offline Click Here to See the Profile for gameon Click here to Send gameon a Private Message Find more posts by gameon Add gameon to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
gameon
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 116

I like some of the comments in recent posts and it shows that some people do care deeply for the greatest sport in the country. Now all we have to do is make others believe the same thing we do.

Ive noticed that people in power often say we give them idiotic points and that our comments are complaints, bitching and whining. My observation of this type of situ is that any comment that at first seems minor and idiotic is usually one small modification or change away from a good solution. The important thing is to listen to everything no matter if you think it is idiotic and then try to turn the suggestion into something worthwhile and useable.

I agree with JustAnotherHack in that many sports are declining and we have reached a point where curling now has to catch-up. Weve been very lucky over the years because our sport was so popular and we didnt need marketing to stay on top. I agree that a national level promo of curling is really important and thats the first message many people understand also that the CCA and Provincial Assns have to take the lead in promoting the sport nationally.

I also agree that clubs play a role too, but that will happen in their day to day operations, as they try to build their leagues and bonspiels. The one thing Ill note here is that clubs have done this for years and will continue to do it because that is how they keep the doors open. The one major problem with starting at the grassroots level, as were doing, is that our promo and advertising is noticed only by curlers or people who already know about the sport.

Our goal has to be to attract the non-curlers or people who know nothing about the sport and therein lays the problem. So what is the solution? Well need expert MARKETING, but a couple of quick suggestions is getting curling back in schools and also having a year-round national advertising campaign so we can attract the people who never thought of trying curling or never knew the game existed. For too many years weve only hit the small percentage of people who already had a direct connection to curling and that marketing isnt working.

A good example of what happens with our current marketing is when we sell a zillion raffle tickets for our curling club. Who do we sell the ticket to and where do we get the money? We sell to all of our curling buddies and family members, but seldom do we sell these tickets to people who have zero connection to our great club.

When Lolar3288 says that selling is selling and advertising is advertising, he is correct. This is like cereal, coffee or anything else you want to market. You can sell S*** to anyone with great marketing and that has been proven with successful television marketing when they sell totally useless crap to millions of customers. As he states, we need Promo 101 or Marketing 101. We have to create a need in customers and sell our sport to people who never consider playing or even knew curling existed.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-02-14 05:19PM
Gerry is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Gerry Click here to Send Gerry a Private Message Visit Gerry's homepage! Find more posts by Gerry Add Gerry to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Gerry
CZ Founder

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002

Gameon: I have no issue with people who complain and bring up an issue and/or provide some constructive criticisms. It's when all they do is harp on the same issues and never bring any ideas to the table.

He talks a big game, but I haven't seen any results. And when the association does bring new initiatives to the table, it's never good enough. Just more excuses on why he can't show up or post any solutions to the problems. This I've had enough of.

__________________
CurlingZone
Everything...Curling!

Please click on our sponsors' banners periodically, as visiting their sites helps keep CurlingZone.com Free!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-02-14 09:06PM
jamcan is offline Click Here to See the Profile for jamcan Click here to Send jamcan a Private Message Find more posts by jamcan Add jamcan to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
jamcan
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

Very good posts by Gameon. I agree wholeheartedly that a proper, national marketing campaign is needed to assist the local and regional ones put on by provincial associations and clubs.

Some might worry about over saturating the message, but the truth is you can't market the sport enough.

I can appreciate Gerry's frustration and I don't agree with everything lolar says. But, critical voices and their criticism are important. And before you call someone a 'dinosaur' (I probably qualify for that term also) its worth remembering he speaks from the perspective of experience.

Curling has undergone a lot of changes in the past 20 seasons and not all of it IMO has been good for the sport. Regardless of the success of the Olympics, clubs are struggling to fill/survive, and numbers are down in all facets of the game. We have not exploited, to their full potential, the exposure the Olympics gave us.

Example: Many think the SLAMS are great. However, they don't look beyond these four events at the overall health of the competitive game. There are far fewer cashspiels than 20 years ago (compare the 1994-95 WCT schedule to this years) and fewer teams enter playdowns across the country.

Some counter that by stating that the players are better. Yet the evidence speaks to the contrary. Many of the same faces from 20 years ago are still the mainstays-just in different team combinations. In fact, what has really happened is fewer competitive players are emerging because fewer are being developed.

There is, from my perspective, multiple reasons for this and perhaps better suited to a separate thread. But my point being is we need to address and correct the issues before they worsen and are not fixable. And for that to happen, all those in power; CCA, WCT, WCF, provincial associations et al, need to open their eyes and ears to people like lolar and Gameon.

Their messages may be not what you WANT to hear. However, they are what curling NEEDS to hear.

__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson

Last edited by jamcan on 09-02-14 at 09:14PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-02-14 09:29PM
Itsjustagame is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Itsjustagame Find more posts by Itsjustagame Add Itsjustagame to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Itsjustagame
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 106

We can go on about what the CCA has not been doing or doing wrong for ever. Pointless, useless, ridiculous.

We can look ahead and try to find solutions to the many challenges curling and curling clubs will be facing in the years to come.

To those who have ideas, let's hear them.

For the others, if you want to be seen stand up. If you want to be heard, speak up. If you want respect, shut...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-02-14 09:45PM
dugless_13 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for dugless_13 Click here to Send dugless_13 a Private Message Find more posts by dugless_13 Add dugless_13 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
dugless_13
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: 1994 Lumina Dr
Posts: 91

what about the vote on the per capita fee vote in the notices for consideration?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-03-14 05:25PM
gameon is offline Click Here to See the Profile for gameon Click here to Send gameon a Private Message Find more posts by gameon Add gameon to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
gameon
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 116

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
Gameon: I have no issue with people who complain and bring up an issue and/or provide some constructive criticisms. It's when all they do is harp on the same issues and never bring any ideas to the table.

He talks a big game, but I haven't seen any results. And when the association does bring new initiatives to the table, it's never good enough. Just more excuses on why he can't show up or post any solutions to the problems. This I've had enough of.



Gerry, I tend to sympathize with you, as being in front of everyone means you have to listen to them all of the time. I thought I would throw out some food for thought and see if we can't get a real summit going.

The problems we have with the current popularity of curling are not any different than most sports or activities are going through. What it does boil down to is the most successful groups will be the ones who are best at problem solving. This was the case when we went to grade school, went to high school, went to college or stood on the T-line and called a game-winning shot.

Curling has been in a decline for many years and I think it frustrates most curlers to watch the CCA and provincial assns seemingly do nothing to rectify the downward swing. The fact the CCA may or may not be doing anything isnt something Im willing to harp about it is what it is!

So Ive pondered the problem solving that we have in front of us and Ill throw out something to think about. Heck, we may have to look at ten solutions before we actually find something that will work, but we need to consider them all.

Here is one that Ill toss out there. To draw more members into our curling clubs we have to draw from the mass population who dont curl, have never curled, and know virtually nothing about the sport. This in my opinion means a year-round advertising campaign very similar to any successful business (like Tim Hortons who hit us 12 months of the year). Think about it years ago hot coffee was enjoyed in cold weather and during the winter then Tims and others advertised all year and now we drink the dark roasted bean all year.

So first we need a 12 month advertising campaign, which would most likely be directed by the CCA because it makes sense. After being heavily involved in curling for well over 40 years, which I should probably not mention, I noticed that we always start our season the first of October and run through to the end of March. This made sense way back then because our buildings couldnt make ice in warmer weather and people considered curling a solely winter sport.

Well I say lets make a shift and bring the start of the season into the first of August. The weather is hot and people want to stay cool so it might be an enticement to advertise the sport as a cool summer activity. We know the season runs Oct-Mar, but the vast numbers of people who we are trying to get into our buildings dont know the difference, as to them curling could easily be done in summer. Competitive curlers already train in Aug and Sep, so it fits their schedule perfectly. If our CCA marketing campaign was in full swing during the spring and early summer, hopefully those thousands of people who have never curled would be enticed into trying the game.

This might mean a slight shift in our normal league curling, but possibly not as we could still start the regular leagues in Oct and maybe finish a little earlier, which most curlers might like, as it seems hard filling a team in March. You could run a summer league Aug and Sep and focus on the roots of curling, which is the greatest social sport. This shift wouldnt affect the competitive scene as they norm start mid Sep and the spiels are done by the end of Nov.

One scenario would be to keep the six-month season, so instead of it being Oct Mar, it would be Aug Jan. Of course making the season longer could possibly be better for a lot of clubs with paid staff, especially the city clubs. They could have an 8-month season, Aug Mar, and be able to generate more revenue. Varying the season length might work good in an area with several clubs, as some could have an 8-month season and the smaller clubs could limit their season to five or six months, as they do now. They could also rotate. Hey, this would mean the clubs working together to coordinate the leagues and seasons, but that would benefit the entire curling community. In the future, maybe the entire curling season would remain six months, but only shift to be Aug-Jan, if it means our clubs are full of old and new members.

Now it is impossible to mention or go over all of the various possibilities, but I wanted to throw out an idea and hopefully get people thinking about making a change. I know change in any pro sport is not easy to make, as we are rooted in our past. We know how things should run so there should be no need to change things or so we tend to say. The reality is something has to be done to keep our sport flourishing in the entire country in the 21st century.

Here are some key words or phrases that can be used in our marketing community, great social activity, exercise, any age, any level or expertise and Im sure you can think of several more. The problem is in front of us lets solve it!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-03-14 06:10PM
Itsjustagame is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Itsjustagame Find more posts by Itsjustagame Add Itsjustagame to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Itsjustagame
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 106

quote:
Originally posted by Itsjustagame
We can go on about what the CCA has not been doing or doing wrong for ever. Pointless, useless, ridiculous.

We can look ahead and try to find solutions to the many challenges curling and curling clubs will be facing in the years to come.

To those who have ideas, let's hear them.

For the others, if you want to be seen stand up. If you want to be heard, speak up. If you want respect, shut...



gameon, ML,

Thank you for bringing constructive ideas to this thread. I am convinced that the CCA summit was all about this kind of initiative.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-03-14 09:07PM
Guest is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Guest Click here to Send Guest a Private Message Visit Guest's homepage! Find more posts by Guest Add Guest to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Guest
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: .
Posts: 1844

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
I would think the CCA would have to put approx. $25,000 to $50,000 into each school taking the program and the program should accommodate no fewer than 64 kids per school (ideal age to me would be around 12 to 14)

Other details would have to be factored in!



So you want to spend $400 to $800 per kid to grow curling in a select group of high schools across the country.

I guarantee that as soon as the funding stops, the curling program would stop. I've seen this government subsidy farce at work in other sports one too many times.

__________________
Guest

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-03-14 09:30PM
JustAnotherHack is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JustAnotherHack Click here to Send JustAnotherHack a Private Message Find more posts by JustAnotherHack Add JustAnotherHack to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend

I would think the CCA would have to put approx. $25,000 to $50,000 into each school taking the program and the program should accommodate no fewer than 64 kids per school (ideal age to me would be around 12 to 14)




I don't know if any sports association/program has this sort of money , including the CCA. And if they do... well, shoot I think our fees are way too much...

I would doubt you would get that amount in a program across a school district, let alone per school. No national sports body has that sort of coin to throw around.

(Say 25K per school... 23 high schools in the City of Vancouver proper... that's about 575 grand. Yeah... not going to happen.)

The other factor in the (junior) high school level is that you need teachers to be interested in being involved too. A lot of high school sports programs are run by volunteers (teachers included) that are actively involved the sports they are coaching/sponsoring high school students in.

A few clubs I've seen had active high school programs with a partnership between the curling club and a high school or three, all of which had teachers involved at the curling club separately from their teaching duties.

It's a good idea to get a connection from the Rocks and Rings program to an actual on-ice program. And I agree it needs to be done at that 12-14 age group... but lets try for a bit more realistic financial approach here.

One way is to have the CCA develop a program, with local club input, to get those kids and teachers in the door. That would be a start anyway...

__________________
Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
- Calvin (Calvin & Hobbs)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-04-14 10:02AM
lolar3288 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for lolar3288 Click here to Send lolar3288 a Private Message Find more posts by lolar3288 Add lolar3288 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
lolar3288
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
Gameon: I have no issue with people who complain and bring up an issue and/or provide some constructive criticisms. It's when all they do is harp on the same issues and never bring any ideas to the table.

He talks a big game, but I haven't seen any results. And when the association does bring new initiatives to the table, it's never good enough. Just more excuses on why he can't show up or post any solutions to the problems. This I've had enough of.



Gerry, you have no idea how much time I have donated to curling business or how many thousands of dollars a year I donate personally at the club level so I take offense with statements inferring that I do nothing but criticise. I'm also not here to polish my own apple so much I do is behind the scenes and anonymously.

You're so far into CCA/OCA that you project a view that "if it is not done through CCA/OCA windows" then "it's not done". The club I served on the board of is in good shape but has had to turn to other funding like Trillium because nothing is available through CCA or OCA except a bill for $5000 or $6000 thousand a year in dues.

Do I think a conference of clubs is a good thing, certainly, but it should be held outside of OCA/CCA like the one Oakville Curling Club held a few years ago, which I attended (don't remember you being there), because the roll of OCA/CCA memberships should be one of the main topics and that ain't gonna happen at a seminar they hold.

In regard to Free advertising......In fact my wife handles some of the advertising for one of the clubs I belong to and she contacts all the "free" stuff she can find like community newspapers but the results are minimal. Same for community TV and postings like social media and University media.

CCA runs the big events and for the most part does an adequate job of that. Either CCA or OCA need to step up to the table in regard to a Provincial/Federal ad program. That has been clear in this posting not just my opinion.


Even CCA/OCA could not afford a year round ad program but a targeted program in September/October would make sense. It has to be aimed at the average person. The ads run by CCA during major events were not bad but the time was wrong as most major events happen at the end of the curling season.
As well we need to show more of an age span right from young adults to seniors. One of the biggest demographics is the early retirement crowd which is wealthier than any previous generation. Most clubs have lots of day ice available. Stick throwing should be included.

Then we need to target young adults as they are the future. The ads have to be aimed at the average person as well and include how cheap curling is (cheaper than bowling).

Another good topic which could be a post on this site is "what government grant programs are available" and "how to best apply for them". I have filled out the forms and done successful applications but you need to know the "buzz words" so how about some help with that?

What about laying off a few of the many CCA staff and hiring one or two people who's main job is to guide Club volunteers through the processes of applying for grants and a list of the programs each province has like Horizons program and Trillium program?

That's just a start...constructive enough for you.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-04-14 04:22PM
gameon is offline Click Here to See the Profile for gameon Click here to Send gameon a Private Message Find more posts by gameon Add gameon to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
gameon
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 116

Ill throw out two obvious things that Ive noticed and when you think long and hard about them you can hopefully see where Im going with these suggestions.

First, any good and successful marketing program will be done year-round and on a constant basis. What curling has done for the past ten or more years is hit the market when the season starts and then again in the height of playdown season with the Scotties and Brier. This of course gives TSN and the CBC hi ratings, but it really doesnt help curling in general. No one comes into my club in Feb and asks to join a league. As a curler, I love the broadcasts, but it really doesnt add memberships to a curling club. What were doing is making money for media without getting sufficient gains for our sport.

Maybe instead of TSN paying the CCA millions for showing the Brier, Scotties and other events, we should take a trade of a year-round marketing program for curling. I dont mean showing games in summer, which I noticed happened this summer, but just give curling 30 or 60 second ads every day of the year. What you need to do is peeve everyone off by showing obvious winter activities in the spring and summer. When a viewer sees a curling ad in May, they wonder what the heck is going on because curling is done in winter. Wham, we have their attention.

I know it has been suggested the CCA and Prov Assns cant afford to advertise year-round. My answer to that is, You cant afford not to advertise year-round! As I suggested, taking a trade or partial trade might enable us to get twice the bang for the buck because TSN isnt actually paying money, but only providing services they already deliver.

Secondly, I dont think youll have an extremely popular sport unless it is done in schools. You have a big problem when sports require the athlete to perform and play games outside the school building, as that means travel, supervisors, and other expenses added to the activity. Ive watched curling and softball take major hits in the past twenty years and you will also notice the most popular sport of hockey suffering a big decline in numbers in recent years.

The most important aspect of having your sport in schools is that you can now introduce the game to students who have no affiliation to curling or even know about the game. Now we arent relying on our immediate family, our relatives or our friends to give curling a boost. One thing we might all agree on is that schools are hurting for money, as are all institutions and businesses. If we provide something to a school at no or very little cost that can help and improve the student learning process, schools are only too happy to accept.

Now Im not sure how we get curling into the regular sports schedule at most schools, but someone might have ideas, as the rejuvenation of our sport depends on it happening. Of course the first thing the CCA would have to do is reintroduce the School Boys and Girls national championships that were scraped years ago, the last School Boys was in 1975. Please dont think about getting rid of the Junior Championships, as that would do nothing to help. The CCA got rid of the School Boys and Girls when they started the Juniors and that was the beginning of the end of high school curling.

If you look at what is presently being played as a national championship, it might be possible to do some juggling and adjusting and use the present Optimist Juvenile Championships as the basis of a new High School championship. The ages are very close if not exact and it would only mean expanding the present format to include every province and territory. It might be possible to keep the current Optimist Juvenile Championships as well, which would give the kids plenty of reasons to curl.

Sorry for long posts, but when you love something it is hard to stop talking as many of us know.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-04-14 06:36PM
JustAnotherHack is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JustAnotherHack Click here to Send JustAnotherHack a Private Message Find more posts by JustAnotherHack Add JustAnotherHack to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


If you had read my post in full I wasn't suggesting a full across the board school implementation process. Just a test market in a few selected schools across the country. ALL PROVINCES PARTICIPATE! As for costing $400 to $600 a student its a poor investment if none of the students continue on with curling (although you can't measure the residual interest of creating more curling fans) and its a very good investment if a decent percentage of participants continue on in the program or graduate to juniors and regular curling. The monies could easily be ear-marked for such a program on a test basis and wouldn't cause a huge dent in CCA bank accounts. Perhaps some matching provincial, federal or civic money could be found, too! I'm not talking a 3 month curling clinic on Tuesdays - - - I'm thinking more of a two year immersion and not just ice-time and delivery instruction - the entire history of the game, guest speakers, guest instructors, fun events, even grades at the end of the day. If it shows promise on a trial basis then expand it. If not, try something else. Just try!



Hmm... I didn't get that in your post.

Let me get this right though. You're thinking of something along the lines of what some private "hockey" schools do (i.e., like Athol Murray in SK... Notre Dame Hounds hockey program), with academics integrated with an athletic program centered around curling. Prep schools for curling, just like those for hockey/basketball/football and so forth.

If that's the case... I'm not sure if that would do much more than increase our pool of elite caliber and competitive curlers. Which generally are not the ones that fill the clubs.

Numbers are what's needed, and an all encompassing program like you propose isn't going to generate that. And to be brutally honest... most kids don't give a rat's behind about the history of the game and all that. They want to play... but you can work skill drills and things like that into that, and make if fun.

The trick is to make the game fun and accessible for kids. The history and all the nuances of the game can come later, and some kids will want that (and you can have advanced programs for those kids). But I would like to see a focus on how curling is fun... and something that they can hang out with their friends and do on their own time, as well when it's part of a class.

Like the house league system in hockey, you need to make it fun first, and then identify the talented ones and move them into a different stream if they so wish (some may not... they may just want to have fun). And for kids who want to be one of those competitive curlers, the idea of an immersive program as you proposed would be great.

Matching funds from government would be nice, but I think that might be a tough sell, especially in the short term. Schools don't have the money for the programs they're running now (public ones anyway), so I think they would be hard pressed to cough up any more. You might get some grant money here and there that might help (BC offers small amounts of grant money for youth sports programs), but that's about it.

To be realistic, any program we put forth is going to have to be funded (in the vast majority) through our own resources. So... with the money we are likely to have, what do we do?

(I like some of the suggestions for advertising actually made elsewhere... the CCA and provincial associations should be throwing advertisements around this time of year, not just during the Season of Champions events... this is when the clubs want to get in touch with people and kids.)

__________________
Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
- Calvin (Calvin & Hobbs)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-05-14 01:42PM
JustAnotherHack is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JustAnotherHack Click here to Send JustAnotherHack a Private Message Find more posts by JustAnotherHack Add JustAnotherHack to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend

One other idea I'd really like to see is to merge entertainment and sports. Like the NFL where Carrie Underwood does the anthem on Monday Night Football - I'd like to see TSN program some of our greatest musicians to do intros or curling songs. In BC you could have Sarah McLachlan or DOA, in Alberta Nickelback or Jan Arden, Saskatchewan - The Sheepdogs, Manitoba - The Perpetrators a top rapper like Bird A Pres, Ontario has tons of great bands, so do Quebec and the Maritimes (Joel Plaskett for one).....Maybe even a national competition for best curling song with nominees getting prizes and winners getting bigger prizes and huge TSN exposure.
BTW - I think the best curling songs would be written and performed by someone like Jann Arden, Blackie & The Rodeo Kings, Rush, Big Dave McLean, Sheepdogs.



Sometimes I wonder if you're being facetious or if you're serious with some of these suggestions... or how much you may have had to drink before posting.

__________________
Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
- Calvin (Calvin & Hobbs)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-05-14 07:13PM
lolar3288 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for lolar3288 Click here to Send lolar3288 a Private Message Find more posts by lolar3288 Add lolar3288 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
lolar3288
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638

You know....there have been more good suggestions in this thread than I have seen in years from official sources!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-06-14 11:33PM
Icebound is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Icebound Click here to Send Icebound a Private Message Find more posts by Icebound Add Icebound to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Icebound
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 39

We can point to the OCA/CCA for curling's membership problems but a lot of that is of the clubs' own making. A comment at the summit pointed out how many clubs have painted themselves into a corner of exclusivity that they now need to get out of.

Or else people, especially new Canadians, simply do not bother to try to walk in the door. It will take some clubs a long time to convince the populace that they are really "open to the public".

On the "advertising" front, a professional marketer at the summit pointed out that Olympics, Advertising, etc. might heighten awareness... But ultimately people come into a curling facility because their friends are there, not because of Olympics, etc. Make use of THAT to find new members.

There was also a comment about our relationship to the municipal websites. Sports programs are a big part of a city's web page. Winnipeg, for example, mentions "rifle range" as one of the many activities in the city.

Care to guess whether it mentions "curling"?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-07-14 11:01AM
krisblonski is offline Click Here to See the Profile for krisblonski Click here to Send krisblonski a Private Message Find more posts by krisblonski Add krisblonski to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
krisblonski
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 9

Ontario Curler Here...

Taking a look at the OCA low event participation, especially at the bantam/junior levels, I can't help but pin a lot of the blame on the new obsession with elite level curling. Rather than the formally all-inclusive nature of competitive curling, we've now adopted a very exclusive attitude so frankly I'm not surprised that numbers are dropping.

15 years ago all it took to sign up was four buddies from a club and someone's parent to "coach" you. Parachuting, while it did happen, was still generally frowned up and so all teams that played were made up of kids playing from the same local club. Was this the best method to develop our young curlers? No, probably not. But on the other hand it was certainly the best method to expose the maximum number of participants to a more competitive level of play.

Contrast that to the modern curling world. Now teams are forced to find a volunteer coach, in a time when volunteering as at an all time low, to go pay and get certified just to play in an OCA event. Top level players are abandoning their local players to travel huge distances to create teams with other top level players. Those local players then potentially lose interest in competing and perhaps even the sport.

Bantams and Juniors are the curlers of the future and yet we seem to be more than OK with letting the "bad" curlers just walk away from the sport.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-07-14 06:21PM
lolar3288 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for lolar3288 Click here to Send lolar3288 a Private Message Find more posts by lolar3288 Add lolar3288 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
lolar3288
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638

Bring a friend programs are always the best way to promote anything but it takes a good volunteer support group to keep it going. It is very hard for clubs to get volunteers and even harder to get good, hard working volunteers. It isn't long before they get burned out.

In my opinion, the mandatory coaching requirements did more to kill junior curling than any other single factor. A "not so good" coach is better than no coach at all. Many of the people that volunteered to coach may have been great with the kids but either not competitive or no as well trained as would be the perfect situation BUT AT LEAST THEY WERE THERE!

Not that the certified coaches are any ball of fire!

Last edited by lolar3288 on 09-08-14 at 12:37PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-07-14 07:37PM
Icebound is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Icebound Click here to Send Icebound a Private Message Find more posts by Icebound Add Icebound to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Icebound
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 39

OCA events are not the only competitive game in town. While junior/bantam OCA entries may be down, my sense is that bonspiel circuits like the OJCT are actually up. For example, the Galt bantam organizer has added 8 teams this year 4 boys 4 girls...because of sold-out demand.

The "curling problem" seems to be different things to different people.

Personally, Curling's participation in the Olympics HAD to affect Prov and National participation, because suddenly there was money.... and there is no way that a "grass roots" team can compete with well funded, well sponsored elite teams. That's not a CCA or OCA or IOC issue; it's just a fact of life that the winners will be the ones with the money, and the money is going to go to the elite talent. So small wonder that if I don't have a chance, why enter? I would rather enter events where I have some chance of a cash.

Therefore for ME, drop in OCA events is not a problem...drop in something like the OJCT would be of more concern.

To others still, the "curling problem" has nothing to do with competition at all, but with the number of bodies in social games on a Monday evening, etc.

We should be sure exactly which "problem" we are trying to solve.


...


Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-08-14 01:46AM
rbi is offline Click Here to See the Profile for rbi Click here to Send rbi a Private Message Find more posts by rbi Add rbi to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
rbi
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: May 2014
Location:
Posts: 143

Dinosaurs?

One item mentioned in the CCA Summit presentation titled "Top Strategies from Working Group" read like this:

"Kill the Dinosaurs (or domesticate) spend $ to make $, dont give away the sport; marketing plan"

Does anybody know what this means? What dinosaurs are they talking about? who/what is giving away the sport?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-08-14 11:34AM
dugless_13 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for dugless_13 Click here to Send dugless_13 a Private Message Find more posts by dugless_13 Add dugless_13 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
dugless_13
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: 1994 Lumina Dr
Posts: 91

back to the CCA summit, and the notice for consideration about per capita fees vs the current per sheet fee. What was the vote on that?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-08-14 12:41PM
lolar3288 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for lolar3288 Click here to Send lolar3288 a Private Message Find more posts by lolar3288 Add lolar3288 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
lolar3288
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638

I would love CCA to put in per capita fees. That should convince more clubs to drop out!

If CCA has money problems maybe they should address their over staffing issues and reduce wages by 20%.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

09-08-14 01:48PM
Icebound is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Icebound Click here to Send Icebound a Private Message Find more posts by Icebound Add Icebound to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Icebound
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 39

Re: Dinosaurs?

quote:
Originally posted by rbi
One item mentioned in the CCA Summit presentation titled "Top Strategies from Working Group" read like this:

"Kill the Dinosaurs (or domesticate) spend $ to make $, dont give away the sport; marketing plan"

Does anybody know what this means? What dinosaurs are they talking about? who/what is giving away the sport?



Dinosaurs... Too little "thinking outside the box", and too much "status quo" by current leaders, administrators, managers, even volunteers.

Giving away... Research by marketing pro, again... If you make something cheap, it is view as of no value.... Suggestion that that strong professional paid "curling pros"' doing teaching, (and corresponding price hikes for juniors), might actually increase participation.

Spend $ to make $... Somewhat self evident. Curling clubs have been ""cheap" to spend on recruiting.

...
.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

All times are GMT. The time now is . Post New Thread   Post A Reply
Page 2 of 3 -- Go to: ««   | 1 | 2 | 3 | »»   Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to thisThread

Forum Jump:
Rate This Thread:

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 

Curling Scores

M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M5 -- Wed, Mar 27 -- 7:00pm CT
Fitzgerald Final
Guentzel (10) Watch Live Curling!
Cenzalli Final
Rose (10) Watch Live Curling!
Church Final
Lannoye (10) Watch Live Curling!
Hebert Final
Brenden (9) Watch Live Curling!
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W5 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00am CT
Giroux 4th
Schapman  Watch Live Curling!
Johnson 4th
Scheel  Watch Live Curling!
Berg 4th
Viau  Watch Live Curling!
Pekowitz 4th
Berg  Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
Full Scoreboard  |  Play Fantasy Pick'em!  

Recent News

Recent
Homan Brings Home Gold

Homan Brings Home Gold

Sydney, Canada - In front of a full house with over 4,000 spectators, Canada (photo: Stephen Fisher, World Curling) beat Switzerland by 7-5 to take gold at the BKT Tires World Women's Curling Championship 2024.

Curling Photos

Recent

Curling Blogs

Facebook Feed

Twitter Feed

To top ↑