Registered: Dec 2015
Location:
Posts: 38

Ha!! You clicked on it!!

Has anyone actually heard anything about the verdict/discussion topics from this meeting?!? I've been Googling it like crazy and can't find anyone, anywhere, saying anything.

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Registered: May 2014
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 629

quote:

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Originally posted by Miz5508
Ha!! You clicked on it!!

Has anyone actually heard anything about the verdict/discussion topics from this meeting?!? I've been Googling it like crazy and can't find anyone, anywhere, saying anything.

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002

Not a surprise that hair will be the next to go considering you've got teams using two hair brooms for hits now. Seems to be the strategy many of the teams are employing and regulating hair brooms is difficult.

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608

So... they're taking the easy way out by banning various brooms, which gives the rather strong impression that the brooms are to blame.
That's easier than creating sweeping rules (or bringing back the rules they eliminated a few years ago), and actually making the effort to enforce them.

It's quite obvious that it is the new techniques/methods of sweeping which are responsible for the radical effects on thrown rocks, and not the brooms.
If this continues, by the beginning of the next curling season, the only brooms legal to use will be corn brooms which were made prior to 1978.

sigh...

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 159

I'm sure sweeping technique will be looked at but sweeping rules are very hard to enforce. Don't want officials to start pulling every other rock because someone swept a little bit at the wrong angle or didn't quite cover the whole path of the stone for a couple strokes.

If anyone wants this thread to be productive start a discussion about what you feel sweeping should be able to do to a rocks path. What's best for the game long term?

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 101

My opinion it is pretty easy to tell between sweeping for effect and just poor sweeping technique. Self enforcing the rules has worked pretty well in the past.

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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 621

Sweeping should make the rock go farther and keep it straighter. How far? How straight? That should be determined by how much downward force and side to side friction your sweepers can generate and no other factor.

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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 621

And...damn! I just spent 50 $bucks$ on a hair broom....son of a......:-)

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Registered: Aug 2015
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 14

I don't expect the upcoming announcement to be anything of much importance but I don't think it has to be...yet. As long as we have something in place for the beginning of next season then I think we'll be alright.

As much as people would like to make this a black and white thing, the whole situation is nuanced with so many different factors coming into play. The first thing the WCF needs to do (and I hope they've done this already) is to figure out what they actually want at the end of this broom / sweeping review.

I think we need to:

1) Decide on what the rule book will say with regards to equipment (define specific parameters that must be met by all manufacturers)

2) Create a testing and approval process for all equipment brought into the marketplace.

3) Include all major stakeholders (Administrators, elite & club level players, officials, ice makers, manufacturers, etc) in the process so that all points of view are taken into account.

4) Be absolutely transparent about how the outcome of this review was achieved.

5) Review annually until the end of this Olympic cycle. Then review at the end of each subsequent Olympic cycle.

Not everyone is going to be happy, whatever the outcome; but we need stability after this tumultuous season. It's time for the WCF to step up and act like the professional governing body we all want it to be.

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

quote:

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Originally posted by Phil_D


All I've seen are these tweets from Hogline:

"WCF will be issuing a statement later this week about meeting held today (Wednesday) in Ottawa. Suppliers sworn to secrecy."

https://twitter.com/Hogline1/status/695070372610318336

"World Curling Federation called suppliers meeting this week. Sources say hair will be banned. Go figure ?"

https://twitter.com/Hogline1/status/695072175552864256

Interesting to say the least.

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Last edited by jamcan on 02-04-16 at 01:53PM

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 159

There is no reason to get all excited about the confidentiality of the meeting. Wait for the WCF statement. It should make it clear what the intent of this meeting was.

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Registered: Dec 2015
Location:
Posts: 38

Tinfoil hat time; anyone know what the only major curling brand is that does not offer a hair head????

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

quote:

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Originally posted by MNIceman
There is no reason to get all excited about the confidentiality of the meeting. Wait for the WCF statement. It should make it clear what the intent of this meeting was.

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__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
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Registered: Mar 2011
Location:
Posts: 26

to me it seems the sport has more or less a binary choice:

1. enforce the direction/maximum angle at which one can sweep
2. enforce no sweeping rules, except for obvious infractions (burning/dumping)

and to paraphrase a baseball discussion I once heard about instant replay in baseball, we can either choose to have an imperfect rule enforced consistently, or a perfect rule that can be enforced inconsistently

personally I'd rather see fewer rules over more, and more successful shots with one sweeper over a more difficult sweeping practice (physically and legislatively) with two

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990

I find it funny that a rock released a quarter of an inch over the hogline can be enforced quite vigorously, even when it does nothing to effect the shot but "directional sweeping" which greatly influences the outcome of a shot is a "we cant enforce the rules"situation. Something is messed up.

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Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 86

Curlers cheat, Curlers make mistakes. Officials cheat, officials make mistakes.

The more we take the ethics of the game out of the hands of the curlers and put them in the hands of officials, the less curlers will care about keeping the ethics and traditions of self policing.

Inevitably, if curlers are no longer responsible for calling fouls on themselves, the more likely it is that those who want to cheat will take advantage of what ever opportunity they can to do so.

I truly hope this issue is kept to an equipment rule and not an on-ice enforcement of technique. Let the traditions and ethics of this great sport continue to guide us.

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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 621

I second the motion Flat Hat.

One thing we can be sure of. The WCT tour and the Grand Slams will continue to be official free and will continue to lead the curling community. So I suspect we are in good hands that way for some time to come.

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 839

So it's now Friday, 3:30 PM Eastern time. Any news?

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990

" I truly hope this issue is kept to an equipment rule and not an on-ice enforcement of technique. Let the traditions and ethics of this great sport continue to guide us."

the only problem is that it is the on ice technique and not the equipment that is the root of the problem. The equipment or a certain manufacturers equipment was blamed when clearly it was not.

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

quote:

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Originally posted by JB42
I second the motion Flat Hat.

One thing we can be sure of. The WCT tour and the Grand Slams will continue to be official free and will continue to lead the curling community. So I suspect we are in good hands that way for some time to come.

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__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990

quote:

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Originally posted by fresca
take a pill - it was out of control - someone had to do it


glad you werent involved - you dont add much

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

Take a pill and hike yourself fresca. There's a proper way to address the issue. And it's not banning equipment or intimidating teams when you don't even understand the cause. The WCT and WCF look like keystone kops here. They should not be lauded for totally mishandling this.

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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
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Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875

It is NOT the fabric. It is NOT the plastic inserts. It is NOT the hair brooms. You can go to the local fabric store and re-cover old broom heads with shag and still make the rocks curl by the sweeping technique. I think you can dust off some old brownies and do the same. It just seems so simple to solve this. Re-institute the sweeping rules of years past. Back and forth in front of the rock. Done. And if you won't, then why.

As a conspiracy theorist, the real question is, who is the beneficiary of all that has transpired in the last year with the so-called broom issues? and why? and when?

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fresca
the rock steering which was essentially cheating and on the way to ruining the game


if you couldnt see that - its not worth arguing with you

take a hike [/QUOTE

I agree one hundred percent it was and still is out of control. Curling Canada needs to enforce the sweeping rules. This was all brought on to try to stop a broom manufacturer with a popular and growing product. It will be interesting to see whether they grow a pair and right a wrong or slink away and hide behind their bogus moratorium.

as for the hike, I would love to but I work tomorrow so I need to be back before 4:30pm.

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Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875

quote:

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Originally posted by Gerry
Not a surprise that hair will be the next to go considering you've got teams using two hair brooms for hits now. Seems to be the strategy many of the teams are employing and regulating hair brooms is difficult.

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