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12-19-17 03:11PM
biterbar is offline Click Here to See the Profile for biterbar Click here to Send biterbar a Private Message Find more posts by biterbar Add biterbar to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
biterbar
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Mar 2009
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USA Club Championships

Time to overhaul this competition. Minnesota puts 5 total teams in for both sexes, Illinois has no women's team and a sign and go for the men's. Washington has a two team inter-club play down to qualify a team.

A total of 70 men's 17 women's teams of which 2/3rd s are from Mopac, GNCC and Wisconsin. If you throw the 8 from Dakota and the GLCA you have half the areas putting 84% of the teams into the competition.

Only six regions entered the women's side, does that mean that 4 regions get two teams? Including Minnesota that had 2 entered?
My conclusion is 70 teams for men is an good number, but the distribution is terrible. The GNCC needs to be split in two. They can probably get even more teams if the same teams can't qualify year after year. Maybe a rule you can't go consecutive years?

Illinois to the Great Lakes area and Washington into MoPAC. Alaska get's there spot if they have a team. Give the tenth and Alaska to the regions with the most teams.

Go to Minnesota and see why no one signs up. They have so many great curlers it baffles me, especially when in their home state.

Go to the USWCA and have them find out how to increase the ladies side.

Something needs to be tweaked or this will go by the wayside and I think that is a bad thing.

__________________
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire"-Winston Churchill

Last edited by biterbar on 12-19-17 at 03:13PM

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12-19-17 03:54PM
IceMelter is offline Click Here to See the Profile for IceMelter Click here to Send IceMelter a Private Message Find more posts by IceMelter Add IceMelter to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
IceMelter
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2009
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The timing for Club Playdowns in Minnesota was scheduled Between Christmas and New Years. Most people have a family and travel, making it extremely difficult to make this work.

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12-19-17 08:00PM
Katamazoo is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Katamazoo Click here to Send Katamazoo a Private Message Find more posts by Katamazoo Add Katamazoo to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Katamazoo
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Mar 2016
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Unfortunately in the glca the playdowns for mixed is the same week as women's clubs so I know one team did not enter because of that.

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12-20-17 04:29PM
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rbi
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Registered: May 2014
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the entry fee ($90 per player national fee for early bird entry plus a regional fee) seems high, especially considering that very few of the teams get to enjoy the national event

A lower entry fee might attract more teams.

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12-20-17 04:36PM
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rbi
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GNCC, WI, MN, Dakota, Washington and MoPac send women's teams, leaving 4 unused spots for AK, IL, GLCA and MACA.

GNCC gets two additional women's teams (sending 3 of 6 entrants) and MoPac gets one additional (2 of 4). Not sure who gets the 10th entry. WI maybe (sending 2 of their 3 entrants)?

Looks like we can't blame last year's low turnout on the Fairbanks location anymore.

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12-21-17 07:20AM
IMWright is offline Click Here to See the Profile for IMWright Click here to Send IMWright a Private Message Find more posts by IMWright Add IMWright to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
IMWright
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Registered: Dec 2014
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I don't know about making IL part of GLCA. IL, with Wright, has always been in the thick of things come playoffs. So, even with one men's entry, it's a pretty good entry. Perhaps people don't bother to register because there's been such a strong team, so why pay to play for a weekend.

GLCA also had a silver finish a few years ago, so combining the two? Good luck on that...

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12-21-17 09:15AM
biterbar is offline Click Here to See the Profile for biterbar Click here to Send biterbar a Private Message Find more posts by biterbar Add biterbar to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
biterbar
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What does the GLCA medal have to do with the fact there are only three clubs left in Illinois and too few to sign up? Or team strength for that matter?

The fact is there needs to be a rebalancing. The GNCC is huge in numbers of clubs, 45 including arena and geographic area. Wisconsin has 26 clubs, Minnesota north of 25 and the largest clubs in the nation. MOPAC is growing and adding dedicated ice to their arena members.

Illinois has three dedicated clubs and a couple of paper clubs, Washington 1 club and a couple paper clubs.

The USCA website says there 145 clubs in the USA and 2 of 10 berths go to states with a total of 4 curling clubs who entered 3 men's teams this year? It would have been 3 out of ten if Alaska would have joined.
How do you defend those numbers?

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12-21-17 10:45AM
IceMelter is offline Click Here to See the Profile for IceMelter Click here to Send IceMelter a Private Message Find more posts by IceMelter Add IceMelter to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
IceMelter
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2009
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LOL at Illinois being a powerhouse

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12-21-17 05:59PM
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Burned_Broom
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Jun 2015
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So I found the USCA website information to be inconsistent with wikipedia as well as information I know. So i took wikipedias listing and tallied up the numbers of curling clubs in each region. If it was a paper club it was not included because you need ice to play leagues and you need to play league to qualify for Club Nationals. Keep in mind these are Regional associations numbers, the clubs don't have to be located in the state or region just have to be a member. Also if anyone has more accurate numbers(with a reference) please feel free to share.

Alaska - 3
Dakotas - 14
GNCC - 58
GLCA - 17
Illinois - 9
MACA - 12
Minnesota - 29
MOPAC - 21
Washington - 3
Wisconsin - 27
Unaffiliated - 19

I don't think the unaffiliated clubs can be considered unless they join a region. I tried to respect existing regions as much as possible. It is all in fun so hopefully no one is upset about it. I divided MACA up(sorry MACA). The nationals spots would distributed like this.

GNCC - 3
GLCA and Illinois - 1
Alaska, Washington, and 1/2 of MACA - 1
MOPAC - 1
Dakotas and 1/2 of MACA - 1
Wisconsin - 1
Minnesota - 1
Wis-Min border battle - 1

The Min-Wis thing is because I had a spot left and that was the biggest consolidation of curling clubs remaining.

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12-22-17 08:16AM
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AlanMacNeill
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It's probably about time to consider splitting the GNCC in half geographically.

When created (well...okay...when reorganized when USCA and regions became a thing), it was almost exclusively a New England/New York thing, DC and Chesapeake being the extreme southern fringe.

There are now clubs in every Coastal state, and a drive from the extremes (Belfast CC in Maine to Orlando CC in Florida takes 23+ hours. Admittedly, many of these 62 clubs are still arena clubs who only curl one day a week or less, but still...they're there.

A split of New England vs Rest of the East coast would make it two regions of roughly equal club count...the "Coastal Curling Association" would still have long drives (New York to florida, anyone?)...but it would maybe provide some better representation to the region where the largest number of clubs are...there is good curling outside of Minnesota and Wisconsin, ya know...too bad the USCA doesn't know it...

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12-22-17 10:52AM
WarrMachine is offline Click Here to See the Profile for WarrMachine Click here to Send WarrMachine a Private Message Find more posts by WarrMachine Add WarrMachine to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
WarrMachine
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2011
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I'd propose Maryland and south as a separate region. There's just no way that the older PA, NY, NJ clubs are leaving the GNCC.

This new region would be 14 clubs (5 with dedicated ice) and huge growth potential. It would take approximately 20% of the GNCC membership with it.

The caveat though needs to be keeping the number of slots for USCA Clubs/Mixed nationals at 10 so the quick win is to have Illinois play down with GLCA or Washington with MOPAC.

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12-22-17 11:04AM
courtneyshaw is offline Click Here to See the Profile for courtneyshaw Click here to Send courtneyshaw a Private Message Find more posts by courtneyshaw Add courtneyshaw to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
courtneyshaw
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 38

It's also important to note that these districts are more than just berths at club and mixed national events. These regions represent their member clubs to the USCA. It seems like a new region representing the more southern clubs in the GNCC would be appropriate given vast differences in the current GNCC geographic region.

I think membership numbers are more appropriate to use if considering breaking up a region than number of clubs. That helps to sort out the differences between 50-member arena clubs and 500-member dedicated ice facilities.

Looking at the member numbers on the GNCC page, there are 62 clubs with 5255 members in 16 states. WOW. They have a breakdown by state, and about 38% of the members are north of NY and about 36% are south of there and 25% in NY state. I am not sure how the numbers are reported, how people who are members of more than one club are reported. But it's a start.

#GNCCNorthandSouth

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12-22-17 11:40AM
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melvin
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 57

I tend to agree. The "Old" clubs may want to stay in the GNCC. There is a lot of rich tradition there.

Not sure a strict geographical border would be required. For instance, no reason Philly couldn't decide to be GNCC, and Buck's plays south. Similar for Pine Tree (is that the south NJ one?) and the new Diamond State.

I could see pluses and minuses from the governance standpoint. On one hand, there might be some different focus a growing region like the south has compared to a sustaining region like the north. On the other, it's good to have the resources (money and experience) of the established to help the newer. In practical purposes, not sure how much the region impacts this now.

E.g. I could see northern clubs very unhappy if GNCC raised dues to fund purchasing/refurbing of stones to help arena clubs get running. But that might have legs in areas where the scars of arena curling are fresh.

quote:
Originally posted by WarrMachine
I'd propose Maryland and south as a separate region. There's just no way that the older PA, NY, NJ clubs are leaving the GNCC.

This new region would be 14 clubs (5 with dedicated ice) and huge growth potential. It would take approximately 20% of the GNCC membership with it.

The caveat though needs to be keeping the number of slots for USCA Clubs/Mixed nationals at 10 so the quick win is to have Illinois play down with GLCA or Washington with MOPAC.

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12-22-17 03:43PM
IceMelter is offline Click Here to See the Profile for IceMelter Click here to Send IceMelter a Private Message Find more posts by IceMelter Add IceMelter to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
IceMelter
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2009
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Arena Club Championship arguments should be directed towards a thread for the dedicated Arena Club Championships. Since that's an entirely different event than Club Championships.

Removing Arena clubs and using Wikipedia's information I've created the data set below showing total number of sheets and clubs for each region. (if someone wants to verify this with USCA info go ahead)

Total Sheets Total Clubs
Alaska 10 3
GNCC 75 23
GLCC 30 9
Illinois 15 4
MidAmerc 4 1
Minnesota 119 24
Wisconsin 91 26
Washington 5 1
Dakota 35 9
Mountain Pacific 7 2


Wisconsin and Minnesota have 50% of the dedicated ice facilities 54% of the total number of ice sheets available. Wisconsin and Minnesota should easily be getting 5 spots between the two regions. The remaining spots fought over from the rest of the country.

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12-22-17 04:24PM
biterbar is offline Click Here to See the Profile for biterbar Click here to Send biterbar a Private Message Find more posts by biterbar Add biterbar to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
biterbar
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Mar 2009
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Illinois is 11 and 3, Wilmette curls at Chicago Curling Club.

Obviously a little sarcasm on that last post Icemelter, but some truth to it as well.

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"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire"-Winston Churchill

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12-22-17 08:45PM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
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Registered: Oct 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by IceMelter

Total Sheets Total Clubs
Alaska 10 3
GNCC 75 23
GLCC 30 9
Illinois 15 4
MidAmerc 4 1
Minnesota 119 24
Wisconsin 91 26
Washington 5 1
Dakota 35 9
Mountain Pacific 7 2




You left out GLCA, which has quite a few dedicated clubs

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12-25-17 03:28PM
biterbar is offline Click Here to See the Profile for biterbar Click here to Send biterbar a Private Message Find more posts by biterbar Add biterbar to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
biterbar
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Mar 2009
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Isn't that listed as the GLCC?

__________________
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire"-Winston Churchill

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12-26-17 10:06AM
IceMelter is offline Click Here to See the Profile for IceMelter Click here to Send IceMelter a Private Message Find more posts by IceMelter Add IceMelter to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
IceMelter
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2009
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GLCC should be GLCA

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