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04-09-13 09:32PM |
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tuck
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613 |
World Mixed Doubles
Not many of the names are familiar to me...heck, some of the countries aren't familiar to me...but it is time for World Mixed Doubles. Pete and Maureen Stolt carry our flag.
It would appear to be a nice B Pool. The A Pool has both the Canadians and the Swiss...two teams that I predict will make the medal stand. The C Pool has Scotland, Norway and Sweden. The B Pool looks like a nice place for our team.
Be warned...I will need a globe before this is all over. Both Slovenia and Slovakia are there. Latvia and Estonia as well. Looks like I will continue to learn new things all the time. I'm looking forward to it.
Mostly I am looking forward to hearing Dean "Duck" Gemmell do the play-by-play. Nice guy with a good voice...and he ain't stupid. He faces a difficult task a strategically unexplored curling discipline and some names that might be hard to pronounce.
Ben Tucker
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04-12-13 10:21PM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
Bob Weeks on mixed doubles: "I know those whove played it say its fun and different, but seeing people get up and chase a rock down the ice to sweep it seems silly and a bit demeaning to a sport that already gets laughed at by those who dont know whats going on."
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04-13-13 08:01AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
Grey pool:
sweden and scotland should come out of this one. Norway and finland should be the only real threats to them
Yellow pool:
dont know much about your US team but this is definately the pool you want to be in. It is titally wide open. If i had to put money on who gets through I'd say austria and the US. Denmark and France are the other 2 to look at
blue pool:
The pool of death. Several teams here that could get out. Canada did not impress me in play downs. They were very up and down. started out 4-0 then went 4-3 and then won out.
Still canada should get out of this group. Switzerland is obviously the heavy favorite. Russia and china are not to be underestimated and spain might be a dark horse as well.
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04-13-13 04:00PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
The website is truly pathetic. The live scores do not work and i dont even see indication of what teams are playing on the other sheets scoreboards even though games are clearly taking place.
I would have expected better of an event held in canada
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04-13-13 04:28PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
quote: Originally posted by misty1
The website is truly pathetic. The live scores do not work and i dont even see indication of what teams are playing on the other sheets scoreboards even though games are clearly taking place.
I would have expected better of an event held in canada
Even CZ does not have the scoreboard- but can show US university games.
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04-13-13 08:14PM |
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Deez
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 86 |
The onus of updating scores falls on the event host committee. Not the website on which they are updated.
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04-13-13 08:19PM |
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chapnlie
Swing Artist
Registered: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 282 |
quote: Originally posted by dbsdbs
Bob Weeks on mixed doubles: "I know those whove played it say its fun and different, but seeing people get up and chase a rock down the ice to sweep it seems silly and a bit demeaning to a sport that already gets laughed at by those who dont know whats going on."
Hear, hear. When I began curling, I learned it was not 'cool' to jump up and sweep your own stone. I have yet to see anything to disprove that early lesson.
And then to start an end with a rock already in place ... sorry folks, not sure what that is, but it's not curling...
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04-13-13 10:28PM |
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tuck
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613 |
I, too, thought that Mixed Doubles fell far short of curling's standards. What really bugged me was the lack of noise. Yelling "Hurry" to nonexistent sweepers lacks excitement.
So I went out to watch our Nationals and tried to view it with an open mind. Alas, if there is beauty to this game, it eludes me. Speaking to the participants, most like the game...but greatly preferred regular curling.
Is this on the path for Olympic Medal Status? I don't know. My suspicions are that the Olympics have fallen in love with curling and want to add more curling...since they go to all the trouble to build a venue. I look at Mixed Doubles as the first attempt. I wonder what the second attempt will look like...assuming this one fails and another is tried.
All that being said, it in no way detracts me from cheering for the USA this week. Pete and Maureen are great curlers and great people. It is a World event and the USA could certainly could use a good showing.
Ben Tucker
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04-14-13 12:43PM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
Tuck is on the mark again. I tried to watch mixed doubles curling but just cannot. I guess curling is getting to be more and more like other sports and less and less like the game we love. Mixed doubles is all about the $$$ - just an effort to get more Olympics coverage. Perhaps this will appeal to a new audience but, as Tuck says, "... if there is beauty to this game, it eludes me." It could just as well be called, as Bob Weeks did in another post, "throw your rock - jump up and chase your rock - sweep your rock". Just wish they did not call it curling.
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04-14-13 01:25PM |
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jhcurl
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: US - CT
Posts: 1431 |
Listen to the most recent Curling Show podcast and George Karrys has an interesting thought that MD might attract new people to curling especially couples. Also, it is a much quicker game to play so might attract people for that.
the Olympics likes it because it adds a sport without adding significant athletes. It could even be possible that countries could use team members from the mens and womens.
JH
watching the WMDs just to listen to Dean.
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04-14-13 05:56PM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
it would be a shame to add mixed doubles curling to Olympics while cutting another traditional sport, just because mixed doubles fit tv time slot better
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04-14-13 09:25PM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dbsdbs
it would be a shame to add mixed doubles curling to Olympics while cutting another traditional sport, just because mixed doubles fit tv time slot better [/]
Looks like a more luck based sport than skill. Dear mr. Rogge, please do not accept this sport into the Olympics...please suggest to the the WCF & crafty Caitthat ful mixed be accepted. You could do an 8 end mixed game format. But please no doubles. It will make curling look clownish.
__________________
Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
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04-14-13 09:31PM |
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tuck
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613 |
I tried watching again today. I like Pete and Maureen. The commentary by Duck Gemmell and Sarah Carllson is absolutely wonderful. It needs to be. The game fails to hold my attention and I am a curling junkie. I watch league games. I travel fairly long distances to watch a spiel.
Still, I am cheering for the USA and will follow them.
Ben Tucker
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04-14-13 09:55PM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
further proof that mixed doubles is not real curling - Spain beat Canada
Last edited by dbsdbs on 04-15-13 at 12:10AM
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04-15-13 09:23AM |
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SargentIV
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL (originally from Richmond, VA)
Posts: 85 |
dbsdbs - I think that is unfair to Spain. Sergio Vez played a great game. He has quite a bit of work to do if he wants to help get Spain back to the European A Division and possibly the Worlds, but he has talent.
As for Mixed Doubles and the Olympics I have a few thoughts.
1. I love curling and love all variations of curling, but that's because I love curling. Mixed Doubles lacks the flashy take outs that can be seen in Fours (yes, I'm making up a new name). It also doesn't have a very diverse set of strategies that can be used. Almost every first stone was to tap the pre-placed stone on the button to the side. As a result I'm not sure non-curling fans who watch the Olympics will become engaged like they are with the full team competition.
2. If Mixed Doubles is added to the Olympics I don't want it to happen at the expense of the Men's and Women's Team competitions. Allow me to explain the nuance of spots at the Olympic Games.
When the IOC recognizes an International Sports Federation they give that organization a quota for athletes and approves the various events. For example, in 1996 there were two disciplines Artistic and Rhythmic. The FIG gave Artistic a quota of 215 gymnasts and Rhythmic 91 spots. For the 2000 Sydney Olympics when the FIG wanted to add Trampoline to the Olympic program and the IOC said 'yes', but they did not give the FIG a larger athlete quota. Therefore, the FIG cut the number of Artistic and Rhythmic athletes to 194 and 84 respectively.
The World Curling Federation could find themselves in a similar situation. If the IOC were to approve Mixed Doubles for the Olympics, but not give the WCF a larger quota (the current number is 100), then they would have to cut teams to accommodate Mixed. If the WCF cut the full team competition to eight for both men and women they would then have room for eight mixed doubles teams.
I personally don't want to see the number of full teams get cut, so unless the IOC is willing to increase the WCF's quota (and that is highly unlikely), then I don't want to see Mixed Doubles added to the Olympics.
__________________
If you want to win a race run the 100m. If you want an experience run the marathon. - Emil Zatopek
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04-15-13 10:02AM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
My apologies to Spain -- one just does not expect Canada to lose to a curling newbie. That is not likely to happen in real curling which some would say is why mixed doubles is a good addition - it gives newer countries with fewer curlers a chance to compete. While that may be true, the problem is that they are competing in something that is not curling. SergeantlV makes another strong argument against mixed doubles in the Olympics but I fear the WCF and IOC have other things on their mind [$$$$] besides what is good for curling.
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04-15-13 12:39PM |
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curlo
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 85 |
quote: Originally posted by dbsdbs
My apologies to Spain -- one just does not expect Canada to lose to a curling newbie. That is not likely to happen in real curling which some would say is why mixed doubles is a good addition - it gives newer countries with fewer curlers a chance to compete. While that may be true, the problem is that they are competing in something that is not curling. SergeantlV makes another strong argument against mixed doubles in the Olympics but I fear the WCF and IOC have other things on their mind [$$$$] besides what is good for curling.
The WCF only do what is best for curling. It does give newer countrys a chance to compete. To suggest that the WCF only thinks about money says more about you then the WCF. But what is good for the curling world is not neccesairily what is good for curling Canada.
Spain has an excellent mixed doubles team. Irantzu Has over 100 games to her name in international competition (Europeans, and Mixed doubles worlds) and Sergio is probably close to it. They are good at the game because they work hard and have a lot of experience already with their young age. Even though they ar personal friends of mine, its fair to say they didnt win on luck. Irantzu made a very nice draw to win the game.
I absolutely agree with SargentIV that Mixed doubles shouldnt cost regular curling any places in the olympic tournament. I have always seen Mixed doubles as an Addition to regular curling and not as a substitution and thats why i believe in the power of the concept.
Mixed doubles is great, and I know many Canadians are traditionalists but to call mixed doubles "not curling" isnt right.
The WCF is gonna push for mixed doubles in the olympic program, whether you like it or not. So you can either:
A: Call it silly and stupid and keep losing the championships (As Canada has done)
or:
B: Embrace the sport and try to be succesfull at it. (as Switzerland and other countrys have done)
Mixed doubles is here to stay. You better get your head around it.
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04-15-13 01:52PM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
You are probably right that mixed doubles is here to stay, but that does not change my opinion of the game. It is a silly derivative of real curling. And the WCF did not dream this up for the good of curling, they came up with this with the express intent of getting more Olympic coverage and more $$$. As Warren Hanson of the CCA has said:
"The Olympics is not about what's a sport -- it's about money. And it's not like the Olympics and IOC is unique that way. Is the NFL about sport? Is the NHL about sport? Of course not. They're about the money -- the sport's a sideshow."
That does not mean that you need to agree with me on the merits of mixed doubles curling any more than it means I have to embrace the game. But it does explain all too well why mixed doubles is being played.
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04-15-13 01:58PM |
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tuck
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613 |
Dang. Excellent discussion. Sometimes non-Americans can add good stuff to a thread. Thanks to the thoughtful Canadian and the diplomatic Dane.
Sarg, nice insight to Olympic thinking.
Ben Tucker
Learning stuff
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04-15-13 02:05PM |
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tuck
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613 |
Oops...forgot what I was going to say. I was distracted by good conversation with interesting points politely stated.
Pete and Maureen defeat Denmark to start their climb in Pool B. Only three games into the round robin and every team in Pool B has at least one loss. Looks like a dog fight.
Ben Tucker
Go Stolts!
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04-15-13 03:22PM |
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curlo
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 85 |
I do see what mixed doubles has brought us and that is that its easier for developing curling nations to enter a team for a championship event and therefore gain experience on an international level. Im grateful for that. And if the WCF makes some money of it: great!
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04-15-13 03:30PM |
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curlny
Hitting Paint
Registered: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 180 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dbsdbs
they came up with this with the express intent of getting more Olympic coverage
So? Great idea then!
If there was curling in the Olympics, but no TV, we would not have seen the growth spurt that we have in the east. It is not Olympic curling that is helping the clubs grow, it is TELEVISED Olympic curling that is key.
If Mixed Doubles results in increased TV time, then the WCF made the right move and should be lauded.
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JL
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04-15-13 04:33PM |
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tuck
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613 |
I think you're right, CurlNY, but I'm not sure.
What if the viewing public views Mixed Doubles as I view it? We are already barely considered a sport. What if the public, like myself, sees Mixed Doubles as dull? If it bombs on TV, does that undo some of good that Olympic coverage has done for our game?
I don't have the answer...just the question.
Gemmell's podcast with George Karrys, publisher of The Canadian Curling News, looks at some of the same questions we are asking ourselves.
My contention remains the same: Mixed Curling falls short of any mark set for it. It needs to be improved or scratched in favor of another idea. My problem with my contention is that I don't have any ideas for either choice.
You know that guy who just sits back and complains, but never makes suggestions on improvements? That guy who just bitches and doesn't offer solutions? Today that is me. Sorry. It's not because I'm a jerk. It's because I'm not that bright.
In the meantime, Team USA is in a medal hunt and the Seniors are also doing well.
Ben Tucker
Wanting Duck and Sarah to swing those cameras over to some Seniors
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04-15-13 05:32PM |
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jhcurl
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: US - CT
Posts: 1431 |
I think that George in the interview hit the nail on the head. Mixed doubles can attract a completely different set of "curlers".
Think about this, there are many out there that want to show up and "play curling" similar to bowling. Rent a sheet and throw some rocks. So, Friday night black light neon mixed doubles. No sweeping, since they don't know how. "rent" the "lanes" and "shoes". Make some quick money. If 4 people decide to try curling instead that is a bonus. Give them a discount on a trial membership. That is a win-win (I hate that term). Do it during the off times - Thanksgiving, Christmas, Sunday late day, whenever. Open the bar, play 4 ends (45 minutes or less), maybe offer drinks and snacks after for the same price? If it is sold right, I bet you could get $20 a head or more.
Is it curling, nope. Can we make money off of it, you betcha!
JH
get a 100 people to show up and I will find one that will be a curler.
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04-15-13 06:41PM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
that's it -- let's make curling more like bowling. Line up the beer bottles behind each sheet, maybe even put out some popcorn and peanuts. Just fling your rock down the ice, who needs sweeping? And if you think you like to sweep, well then just high-tail it down the ice after you throw your rock.
Seems like recent years have already demonstrated that the game can attract new curlers. So why don't we build on that instead of having to come up with this illegitimate child of curling?
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