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04-07-15 04:16PM |
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Borough Boy
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 48 |
quote: Originally posted by Gerry
This is why the evolution of the Brier and Scotties has to happen for the longterm success of Canada's chances at the Worlds.
We host our National Championships and our Oskar Erikssons are not allowed to play. In other countries, Mike McEwen, Brendan Bottcher, John Epping would have been playing under those conditions when they were on their way up.
Currently the Brier and Scotties DOES select the best team on any given season. But for these younger, up and coming teams who deserve to be there, but can't because of numbers, it limits their development opportunities to be even better.
When these teams get to the Brier, they will be good enough to win it, but instead of having experience, they will be rookies in that atmosphere and a similar pressure of the World Championships.
THIS is the struggle Curling Canada faces when trying to balance High Performance objectives at the Nationals while still ensuring the history and tradition of what those events are.
Relegation is the first change of many coming up the pipeline for the Brier and Scotties.
Ahhhh, yes. Amen
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04-07-15 04:45PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
quote: Originally posted by nelsosi
Deep breath everyone.
If Pat doesn't roll out with his first rock in 10 during the 1/2 game, they win that game and are playing for gold. Let's not overreact here.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda , never wins much.
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04-07-15 05:20PM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
quote: Originally posted by Gerry
This is why the evolution of the Brier and Scotties has to happen for the longterm success of Canada's chances at the Worlds.
We host our National Championships and our Oskar Erikssons are not allowed to play. In other countries, Mike McEwen, Brendan Bottcher, John Epping would have been playing under those conditions when they were on their way up.
Currently the Brier and Scotties DOES select the best team on any given season. But for these younger, up and coming teams who deserve to be there, but can't because of numbers, it limits their development opportunities to be even better.
When these teams get to the Brier, they will be good enough to win it, but instead of having experience, they will be rookies in that atmosphere and a similar pressure of the World Championships.
THIS is the struggle Curling Canada faces when trying to balance High Performance objectives at the Nationals while still ensuring the history and tradition of what those events are.
Relegation is the first change of many coming up the pipeline for the Brier and Scotties.
This seems like a red herring.
If High performance is so important, have the Canada Cup winner go to the worlds or introduce other initiatives. No need to change the Brier or exclude teams.
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04-07-15 05:35PM |
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Borough Boy
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 48 |
quote: Originally posted by Ventry
This seems like a red herring.
If High performance is so important, have the Canada Cup winner go to the worlds or introduce other initiatives. No need to change the Brier or exclude teams.
It's not a red herring, just the facts of what has to be dealt with.
That option is certainly on the table at this point. That would keep the Brier well, the Brier as we have all known it and the Canada Cup could be the vehicle in sending teams to International competitions.
At least that way the Brier keeps its tradition of having reps from all provinces, and the Canada Cup brings the best teams together, which is what its original purpose was, to be the CC alternative to Grand Slams.
Don't think that all of this is not open to discussions, there are potential sponsor issues with the Brier, sagging attendance, relegation challenges and yet, the Slams for all the good and bad, just signed a nice TV package.
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04-07-15 05:51PM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
quote: Originally posted by Borough Boy
It's not a red herring, just the facts of what has to be dealt with.
That option is certainly on the table at this point. That would keep the Brier well, the Brier as we have all known it and the Canada Cup could be the vehicle in sending teams to International competitions.
At least that way the Brier keeps its tradition of having reps from all provinces, and the Canada Cup brings the best teams together, which is what its original purpose was, to be the CC alternative to Grand Slams.
Don't think that all of this is not open to discussions, there are potential sponsor issues with the Brier, sagging attendance, relegation challenges and yet, the Slams for all the good and bad, just signed a nice TV package.
According to Curling Canada, relegation or any other changes to the Brier is not about high performance, its about fairness and equality.
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04-07-15 06:11PM |
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Borough Boy
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 48 |
quote: Originally posted by Ventry
According to Curling Canada, relegation or any other changes to the Brier is not about high performance, its about fairness and equality.
Agreed that is what the FAQ says, but really? I mean if relegation isn't about high performance, then isn't about low performace?
It's just semantics after all, to ensure that ALL provinces and territories have access to the Championships, not the guarantee that they will all play in those Championships.
The points being made are that people on this forum are suggesting some change to the system/funding/governance to determine our national represntatives in order to become more dominant, I'm suggesting that there is a good chance that is going to occur, it just may not be the way some envision it to be.
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04-07-15 06:26PM |
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lolar3288
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638 |
quote: Originally posted by 5thstone
There's no appetite from the taxpayer to have full time curlers in Canada. It just not going happened.
Having said that, let's face a few facts. Sticking to the Mens Curling:
Most of the Worlds team this especially Ewan MacDonald or even David Murdoch would be hard pressed to get to the quarter finals in the Safeway Select in Manitoba. Those guys get beat by the part time touring teams fairly regularly.
I'm not even sure if Mike McEwen or Brad Jacobs could of beat Edin to be really truthful about. Edin is in the zone.
I guess one can argue that we should of got a new Team Canada after Koe and that former team split last year but still. That team that was in Halifax had too many 'skips', John Morris being the most guilty party. Pat Simmons is a great skip and everything but he can't be Superman everyday. It will be interesting what they will be doing next year? That combination doesn't work well as even the Americans almost beat us.
If the taxpayer realize the millions going to sport administration organizations (kingdom builders) like CCA and CAC....well it would be an eye opener. Cut 4 mil from their collective budgets and give it to two good curling teams picked anyway you want.
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04-07-15 10:57PM |
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5thstone
Hitting Paint
Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Southern Manitoba
Posts: 154 |
quote: Originally posted by Gerry
This is why the evolution of the Brier and Scotties has to happen for the longterm success of Canada's chances at the Worlds.
We host our National Championships and our Oskar Erikssons are not allowed to play. In other countries, Mike McEwen, Brendan Bottcher, John Epping would have been playing under those conditions when they were on their way up.
Currently the Brier and Scotties DOES select the best team on any given season. But for these younger, up and coming teams who deserve to be there, but can't because of numbers, it limits their development opportunities to be even better.
When these teams get to the Brier, they will be good enough to win it, but instead of having experience, they will be rookies in that atmosphere and a similar pressure of the World Championships.
THIS is the struggle Curling Canada faces when trying to balance High Performance objectives at the Nationals while still ensuring the history and tradition of what those events are.
Relegation is the first change of many coming up the pipeline for the Brier and Scotties.
It speaks mountains about the depth we have when a top team such McEwen Botcher and I guess you can say Glen Howard (somehow) can't get out of provincials. If you have one bad week at the worst possible time, tough luck. Whoever beats them gets their feet wet and hopefully will improve the following year.
While Edin would easily win out most provincials with maybe the exception of Alberta and possibly Ontario, most of the European teams probably wouldn't win our provincial play downs let alone be able to win the Brier if they were in it. Even the provincials that are 'relegated' have teams would fair decently compared to some of the teams at the World.
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04-08-15 02:48AM |
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Prawnpuller
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 97 |
Re: No "Target" on Canada's Back..anymore
quote: Originally posted by HotRocks
There are NO panic buttons or sour grapes about Canada getting a Bronze at the worlds
A good Finland Team emerged from nowhere and a strong upcoming Young SwedishTeam is the world champion...
Team USA had some very strong games and from what Ive read that country is working to get back to being a better curling competitor again..
What was almost "unacceptable".. was that DEAD Team Canada that didnt show up for the Semi-Final.
Losing is part of any sport but at least show your best skills at that level ... to a very very disappointed Canadian Audience.. what "killed' Pat Simmons usual "up" attitude.. I can guess.....
I understand that curlers are tight-lipped about each other and some of the harsher "truths" behind the scenes.. but something happened to the Team Chemistry after the 1-2 loss and I hope that team deals with it..
Use that second that was brought in from GP if Carter Leaves.. and get a new Third who knows how to support his skip not compete with him ad nauseum...
and as an added point..if the Slams are such superior curling ( yes they are) why cant Mike McEwen ever get out of Manitoba for the Briers and worlds..??
Canada is slipping..in spite of the 2014 Olys...
Like a few other posters I just wonder if the constant banter from his ( you know who ) was really eroding his confidence and even his ability to read ice.
Pat said when he took over the team the one condition was it would be his team. Me thinks it may have started out OK , however changed over the course of the competition with the vice calling too much of the game. I also think Pat is too much of a gentleman to cause any waves,especially at a event as big as the worlds.For this team to move forward this has to be addressed. My suggestion to Pat is to include a roll of duct tape as part of his gear.
Let's face the facts Sweden and Norway are very good teams and certainly on par with our best. The good thing is we likely have at least 6 elite teams or more that could have represented us well at the Worlds.Our Canadian curling status on the world stage is just fine thank you.....last time I checked we had Gold in both the Men's and Women's Olympic categories and that's pretty comforting for this proud Canadian. Chill out everyone..lol..Be proud of Pat and the boys...they done good.next year
Two things can happen....One is bad
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04-08-15 06:21AM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
quote: Originally posted by Borough Boy
Agreed that is what the FAQ says, but really? I mean if relegation isn't about high performance, then isn't about low performace?
It's just semantics after all, to ensure that ALL provinces and territories have access to the Championships, not the guarantee that they will all play in those Championships.
The points being made are that people on this forum are suggesting some change to the system/funding/governance to determine our national represntatives in order to become more dominant, I'm suggesting that there is a good chance that is going to occur, it just may not be the way some envision it to be.
If the Brier changes have anything to do with high or low performances then this would seem to not jibe with the 2.5 million in funding they receive from the feds that is supposed to go towards promoting the game nationally and at a grass roots level. They also receive $500,000 to support elite performances.
Relegation does not seem to be a way to promote elite performance. It would seem to be the opposite. How does negating opportunities for teams to play against the best competition possible promote high performance?
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04-08-15 08:45AM |
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watcher2
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 63 |
quote: Originally posted by Ventry
If the Brier changes have anything to do with high or low performances then this would seem to not jibe with the 2.5 million in funding they receive from the feds that is supposed to go towards promoting the game nationally and at a grass roots level. They also receive $500,000 to support elite performances.
Relegation does not seem to be a way to promote elite performance. It would seem to be the opposite. How does negating opportunities for teams to play against the best competition possible promote high performance?
This fits in with the financial info/discussion on this post:
http://www.curlingzone.com/showthre...?threadid=11121
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04-08-15 10:41AM |
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Borough Boy
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 48 |
quote: Originally posted by Ventry
If the Brier changes have anything to do with high or low performances then this would seem to not jibe with the 2.5 million in funding they receive from the feds that is supposed to go towards promoting the game nationally and at a grass roots level. They also receive $500,000 to support elite performances.
Relegation does not seem to be a way to promote elite performance. It would seem to be the opposite. How does negating opportunities for teams to play against the best competition possible promote high performance?
This whole discussion is exhausting and never ending.
This is pretty much where I stand on all of this, first the Brier as it is now, does not negate opportunities, previously it did, one province/territory was not even included in the process, now they are. Every province has an opportunity, be it thorugh prior year Brier results or through the play in process. NOBODY is excluded. This can't be refuted, the three teams in the playin round robin all had opportunites to play into the Brier, Pei got in, they ALL had an opportunity. Let's call a spade a spade, if you are not getting out of relegation, you are not elite.
I played on tour for 10+ years, you don't become elite overnight or thorugh magic, get out on tour, earn your chops, earn your way. For years to many provinces looked at the Brier as a learning experience and well, quite frankly didn't have the talent to go along with multiple Brier appearances. If the model is changing, get on board. Get better, don't make the system the excuse.
And so we get funding? Curling has to the be the only sport where we bitch because government funds our sport. My God, there is administration, no kidding, it's a business for heaven's sake, you think the Brier happens overnight? Are you on the board of your club, guess what, its a business too! I mean honestly, do you not want business people running a business? You ever met Danny Lamoureux? I suggest you do, he is CC staff, ran the Ottawa curling club for years and now is a paid CC staff member. Not a nicer guy AND more dedicated to our sport than most I know. He is in charge of curling club development, talk to him for 20 minutes and you will realize what he does to help promote and save curling clubs, ideas about funding, expansion etc.
I played a golf tournament with a future Olympic gold medalist in another sport and listened to her trials and tribulations as a 2 sport athlete, she would kill to have the problems Canadian Curling has. I read Jean Michel's complaints about the Brier and I couldn't help but laugh. On one hand we are getting to much funding that is misdirected according to you, on the other, the wives and family have to buy their own meals at the Brier. Would have been nice if JM had mentioned the money each tema gets for prizes, cresting etc. My experience was the team received around $ 16,000 in the early 2000's. May be less now, but the prize money has increased. It is now the richest event in curling. No wonder every province wants to be part of this. I would love to hear how much the Nova Scotia rink last year and the Territories recieved this year for not winning a game and then tell me if you think that was money well spent on development? And now you want to include more teams on the fringe and pay for them to show up, including flights, hotels, per diem, prize money/cresting? That's how you want to spend our dollars? Probably cost about $ 20k per team.
How about this for an idea, you lose in relegation, you get $ 5000 per team in entries and expenses to play on the tour the following year, should 3 out of 4 stick together? Get out,play quality teams at quality events and improve that way?
I think our process is fine thank you, Olympic medals,consistently getting medals at World Championships at all levels. Carry on people...........
Last edited by Borough Boy on 04-08-15 at 01:20PM
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04-08-15 10:50AM |
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HotRocks
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 960 |
Cut the Relegation process
One thing is for sure.. there is a LOT of good discussion going on
Canada is growing so why cant the Brier just set up a 14 ( or whatever) Team Format.. why exclude the bottom teams from getting to the show?
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04-08-15 10:59AM |
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HotRocks
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 960 |
No "Target" on Canada's Back..anymore
quote: Originally posted by Prawnpuller
Let's face the facts Sweden and Norway are very good teams and certainly on par with our best. The good thing is we likely have at least 6 elite teams or more that could have represented us well at the Worlds.Our Canadian curling status on the world stage is just fine thank you.....last time I checked we had Gold in both the Men's and Women's Olympic categories and that's pretty comforting for this proud Canadian. Chill out everyone..lol..Be proud of Pat and the boys...they done good.next year
When Canada's "best" get beat by 25 yr old Swiss Womens Team and a young Mens Swedish Team at worlds.....consistently now...
Seems like the 2014 Olympics arent the only determining factor..
If Brad Jacobs wasnt in "year after the Olys" mode that Team might have been in Halifax....
The Womens side is even worse.. no world champion since 2008
What was hard to take in Halifax was the complete Collapse of Team Canada against a brand new Swedish Team.. and the "problem" seems to be the "coach's son".. who can resolve that Conflict of loyalties
Canada Can do better... Quoting Past "dominance" doesn't cut it for me..
.
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04-08-15 11:01AM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
So Canada being the dominant nation in Curling and winning the Worlds every year builds the sport worldwide how?
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04-08-15 11:02AM |
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HotRocks
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 960 |
Not the point
winning Bronze wasnt the issue..if you read my post...
Sweden. Norway. USA and Switzerland are Buidling the sport of Curling..
Canada isn't Building Young Teams up
and dealing with Team Chemistry issues that collapsed Team Canada in the recent worlds... seems to be of no concern..
.
Last edited by HotRocks on 04-08-15 at 11:05AM
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04-08-15 05:24PM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
Re: Not the point
quote: Originally posted by HotRocks
winning Bronze wasnt the issue..if you read my post...
Sweden. Norway. USA and Switzerland are Buidling the sport of Curling..
Canada isn't Building Young Teams up
and dealing with Team Chemistry issues that collapsed Team Canada in the recent worlds... seems to be of no concern..
.
Viewed from afar, it may appear that Switzerland is building the sport of curling but not so sure about the other 3. USA Curing would agree with your suggestion that they are building young teams but other USA curlers are not so sure.
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04-08-15 05:45PM |
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HotRocks
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 960 |
Sweden is building
Norway maybe "seems to be building " since this is the first Team since U15 that has done well
Check out Swedens program - Oskar Eriksson( 23) for example
and I forgot about Scotland.. even though they seem to be in a bit of a Mess results-wise lately...
.
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04-08-15 09:42PM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
I'm not sure whether to laugh my head off at this thread or shake my head in sad disbelief at some of the ridiculous posts on this.
OMG! Canada failed to win Gold at this years Men's and Women's world championships! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! (Cue REM's 'It's the End of The World As We Know It')
So what? Who cares? Stop whining. You want the game to grow? You want curling to be an Olympic medal sport? Then wise up. Other countries improving and beating us occasionally (heavens, it happens in other sports also, even (gasp) HOCKEY!) is the price you pay.
And so some peoples logic (I hesitate to use the word, since some might think it justifies stupidity)jumps to the conclusion that we must immediately start paying teams so they can curl full time. Just like some other countries do.
Hot Flash Dear Reader: Those other countries do this because they have so few clubs and so few curlers that this is the only way they can attempt to be occasionally competitive with our teams. Get it? They have little or no option.
We have huge numbers of talent so why would we suddenly hit the panic button? We almost always medal and that color is most often Gold. Those other paying countries? Combined they probably have fewer clubs and curlers than the province of Manitoba and they aren't growing their participation, recreationally or competitively. It's more likely they're stifling the growth of the game in their homelands.
So can we not break out the old, tired argument of paying teams to play and not having the Brier and STOH winners represent our country at the Worlds? I know there is nothing more Gerry and all you Slammers would like but the fact, borne out time after time is that we still send the best teams using our NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS as the determining event.
And no offense to Mike McEwen intended, but if you can't win your province or the Olympic Trials then you don't deserve to have the Maple Leaf on your back just because of some cashspiel wins.
The big problem, as I see it, is there are a whole bunch of you who want to have power over people who are competitive curlers. You're all PO'd because your favorite didn't win. Well, sorry for the cold splash of reality, but only one team gets to win. So suddenly you all want to be armchair dictators who decides who goes, rather than let the game on the ice decide it.
But, what the hell? Canada didn't win Gold so that gives you all the opportunity to drag out the endless, witless argument that we need to rip everything apart because all that matters is win, win, win and nothing but Gold will make you happy.
Suck it up. Both our reps this year were great teams who just plain got beat. They all worked hard and made sacrifices and the childish whining I've been reading on this thread does these great players a huge disservice.
Thus endeth the rant. Now go get your golf clubs or fishing rods out and enjoy the summer.
__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
Last edited by jamcan on 04-08-15 at 10:01PM
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04-09-15 08:04AM |
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dinorock2005
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Redneck Saskatchewan
Posts: 1503 |
We have had this conversation before. Back in the seventies. Of course our intranet back then was a tin can and a string.
The solution back then was more beer and louder brooms. I propose that the 70's fix will still work.
__________________
99% pure.
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04-09-15 08:42AM |
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lolar3288
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638 |
quote: Originally posted by jamcan
I'm not sure whether to laugh my head off at this thread or shake my head in sad disbelief at some of the ridiculous posts on this.
OMG! Canada failed to win Gold at this years Men's and Women's world championships! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! (Cue REM's 'It's the End of The World As We Know It')
So what? Who cares? Stop whining. You want the game to grow? You want curling to be an Olympic medal sport? Then wise up. Other countries improving and beating us occasionally (heavens, it happens in other sports also, even (gasp) HOCKEY!) is the price you pay.
And so some peoples logic (I hesitate to use the word, since some might think it justifies stupidity)jumps to the conclusion that we must immediately start paying teams so they can curl full time. Just like some other countries do.
Hot Flash Dear Reader: Those other countries do this because they have so few clubs and so few curlers that this is the only way they can attempt to be occasionally competitive with our teams. Get it? They have little or no option.
We have huge numbers of talent so why would we suddenly hit the panic button? We almost always medal and that color is most often Gold. Those other paying countries? Combined they probably have fewer clubs and curlers than the province of Manitoba and they aren't growing their participation, recreationally or competitively. It's more likely they're stifling the growth of the game in their homelands.
So can we not break out the old, tired argument of paying teams to play and not having the Brier and STOH winners represent our country at the Worlds? I know there is nothing more Gerry and all you Slammers would like but the fact, borne out time after time is that we still send the best teams using our NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS as the determining event.
And no offense to Mike McEwen intended, but if you can't win your province or the Olympic Trials then you don't deserve to have the Maple Leaf on your back just because of some cashspiel wins.
The big problem, as I see it, is there are a whole bunch of you who want to have power over people who are competitive curlers. You're all PO'd because your favorite didn't win. Well, sorry for the cold splash of reality, but only one team gets to win. So suddenly you all want to be armchair dictators who decides who goes, rather than let the game on the ice decide it.
But, what the hell? Canada didn't win Gold so that gives you all the opportunity to drag out the endless, witless argument that we need to rip everything apart because all that matters is win, win, win and nothing but Gold will make you happy.
Suck it up. Both our reps this year were great teams who just plain got beat. They all worked hard and made sacrifices and the childish whining I've been reading on this thread does these great players a huge disservice.
Thus endeth the rant. Now go get your golf clubs or fishing rods out and enjoy the summer.
Typical Canadian opinion, do nothing, "the budget will balance itself"!
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04-09-15 05:30PM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
quote: Originally posted by lolar3288
Typical Canadian opinion, do nothing, "the budget will balance itself"!
LMFAO. typical response when faced with common sense.
__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
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04-09-15 05:32PM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
quote: Originally posted by dinorock2005
We have had this conversation before. Back in the seventies. Of course our intranet back then was a tin can and a string.
The solution back then was more beer and louder brooms. I propose that the 70's fix will still work.
Dinorock, you're still the best!
__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
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04-10-15 06:53AM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
quote: Originally posted by Borough Boy
This whole discussion is exhausting and never ending.
This is pretty much where I stand on all of this, first the Brier as it is now, does not negate opportunities, previously it did, one province/territory was not even included in the process, now they are. Every province has an opportunity, be it thorugh prior year Brier results or through the play in process. NOBODY is excluded. This can't be refuted, the three teams in the playin round robin all had opportunites to play into the Brier, Pei got in, they ALL had an opportunity. Let's call a spade a spade, if you are not getting out of relegation, you are not elite.
I played on tour for 10+ years, you don't become elite overnight or thorugh magic, get out on tour, earn your chops, earn your way. For years to many provinces looked at the Brier as a learning experience and well, quite frankly didn't have the talent to go along with multiple Brier appearances. If the model is changing, get on board. Get better, don't make the system the excuse.
And so we get funding? Curling has to the be the only sport where we bitch because government funds our sport. My God, there is administration, no kidding, it's a business for heaven's sake, you think the Brier happens overnight? Are you on the board of your club, guess what, its a business too! I mean honestly, do you not want business people running a business? You ever met Danny Lamoureux? I suggest you do, he is CC staff, ran the Ottawa curling club for years and now is a paid CC staff member. Not a nicer guy AND more dedicated to our sport than most I know. He is in charge of curling club development, talk to him for 20 minutes and you will realize what he does to help promote and save curling clubs, ideas about funding, expansion etc.
I played a golf tournament with a future Olympic gold medalist in another sport and listened to her trials and tribulations as a 2 sport athlete, she would kill to have the problems Canadian Curling has. I read Jean Michel's complaints about the Brier and I couldn't help but laugh. On one hand we are getting to much funding that is misdirected according to you, on the other, the wives and family have to buy their own meals at the Brier. Would have been nice if JM had mentioned the money each tema gets for prizes, cresting etc. My experience was the team received around $ 16,000 in the early 2000's. May be less now, but the prize money has increased. It is now the richest event in curling. No wonder every province wants to be part of this. I would love to hear how much the Nova Scotia rink last year and the Territories recieved this year for not winning a game and then tell me if you think that was money well spent on development? And now you want to include more teams on the fringe and pay for them to show up, including flights, hotels, per diem, prize money/cresting? That's how you want to spend our dollars? Probably cost about $ 20k per team.
How about this for an idea, you lose in relegation, you get $ 5000 per team in entries and expenses to play on the tour the following year, should 3 out of 4 stick together? Get out,play quality teams at quality events and improve that way?
I think our process is fine thank you, Olympic medals,consistently getting medals at World Championships at all levels. Carry on people...........
I am fine with the funding as long as Curling Canada uses it as it intended. Excluding teams from participating in the full Brier would appear to go against the the intentions of the $2.5 million funding which has nothing to do with developing and supporting elite curlers.
The biggest deal here is the fact that the exclusion of teams seems unnecessary or the reasons behind it seem very minor in comparison to, aside from illogically preventing teams from getting competitive experience, fundamentally changing an event that goes beyond simply being a championship or identification of the best curling team. It is a national event. Everyone should be included.
If you have a problem with non-elite teams at the Brier getting their way paid for then you must disagree with the juniors, seniors and other natl championships that include 14 teams, right?
And I really don't see how relegation helps elite curling in any way. It appears to be nothing more than unfair and unnecessary marginalization.
I can tell you a lot people are truly pissed off at Curling Canada.
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04-10-15 08:16AM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
quote: Originally posted by Borough Boy
I played on tour for 10+ years, you don't become elite overnight or thorugh magic, get out on tour, earn your chops, earn your way. For years to many provinces looked at the Brier as a learning experience and well, quite frankly didn't have the talent to go along with multiple Brier appearances. If the model is changing, get on board. Get better, don't make the system an excuse.
This is also a red herring.
Just because more teams from the East don't get out on tour is not representative of anything other of the financial realities of being able to get out on tour. It's a combination of being an elite talent plus the availability of sponsorship dollars.
It's no surprise that the teams that are or have been on tour from the East were past national junior champions or a transplanted talent like Dacey that could compete/get sponsored.
It seems presumptuous to believe more teams could get on tour if only they made the effort like the Tour teams. I am sure many teams would love the opportunity and have tried to make it work financially.
And how do you know that these teams are not just as committed to getting better as the teams on Tour by playing in local bonspiels and practising.
There seems to be an underlying generalization of the weaker/poorer provinces simply taking advantage of the system which is incredibly insulting to say the least.
And all of this "get out on Tour to avoid relegation" talk seems like a moot point when the Brier changes are apparently supposed to be about fairness and accessibility.
Last edited by Ventry on 04-10-15 at 08:27AM
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