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Clappy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 28

Tyler George

Does anyone else think Tyler George should be skipping Team USA? I think he should be skipping and throwing either third or fourth…preferably fourth. IMO Shuster calls a horrible game and it seems like George will call him out on his decisions and basically override him anyhow. One multiple occasions I’ve seen Shuster just ask his team “so what are we going to do here?” Well, you’re the skip…you tell us! Even if you’re not entirely sure, try instilling some confidence in your team and act like a leader. Then if you want, take their input. I just feel like George has more leadership abilities, has more vision when it comes to calling a game, and performs better. Not to mention Shuster has declined drawing to the button, in events that use it as a tie breaker, and given George that duty. I understand that you want the person who is going to give you the best opportunity to win to do that, but I don’t want someone leading my team that is afraid to take that big shot for himself.
If you want my honest opinion, I wouldn’t even have Shuster on the team. I would see if Chris Plys would join, and have either him or George skip and the other play third. Keep Hamilton and Landsteiner.

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Old Post 03-20-17 03:07PM
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Deez
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 86

Tommy,

Is that you?

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Old Post 03-20-17 03:30PM
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biterbar
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 530

Re: Tyler George

quote:
Originally posted by Clappy
Does anyone else think Tyler George should be skipping Team USA? I think he should be skipping and throwing either third or fourth…preferably fourth. IMO Shuster calls a horrible game and it seems like George will call him out on his decisions and basically override him anyhow. One multiple occasions I’ve seen Shuster just ask his team “so what are we going to do here?” Well, you’re the skip…you tell us! Even if you’re not entirely sure, try instilling some confidence in your team and act like a leader. Then if you want, take their input. I just feel like George has more leadership abilities, has more vision when it comes to calling a game, and performs better. Not to mention Shuster has declined drawing to the button, in events that use it as a tie breaker, and given George that duty. I understand that you want the person who is going to give you the best opportunity to win to do that, but I don’t want someone leading my team that is afraid to take that big shot for himself.
If you want my honest opinion, I wouldn’t even have Shuster on the team. I would see if Chris Plys would join, and have either him or George skip and the other play third. Keep Hamilton and Landsteiner.



Absolutely not.

__________________
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire"-Winston Churchill

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Old Post 03-20-17 03:37PM
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SPMFromPCC
Swing Artist

Registered: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 435

LOL

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Old Post 03-20-17 05:09PM
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Clappy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 28

I guess you can just reply with one or two words or just lol, but I'm being serious I just don't see Shuster as being that great. Not trolling here, I honestly have not seen anything great from him. If he's the best that the US can offer up as a skip...heaven help us.

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Old Post 03-20-17 05:23PM
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MBTuck
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 70

quote:
Originally posted by Clappy
I guess you can just reply with one or two words or just lol, but I'm being serious I just don't see Shuster as being that great. Not trolling here, I honestly have not seen anything great from him. If he's the best that the US can offer up as a skip...heaven help us.


You couldn't be more off. At times i wonder how he is on this team. He is clearly the weakest link. Technically very mediocre. I like the idea of someone like Plys joining this team. Having someone at third who can play all the shots is necessary in today's game and George just doesn't have that in his arsenal.

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Old Post 03-20-17 06:47PM
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Clappy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 28

I guess I'm more concerned with the shot calling than the shot making.

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Old Post 03-20-17 07:16PM
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curlky
Swing Artist

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 468

Clappy, I have been very vocal of my thoughts on Shuster, and how he has choked away the last 2 Olympics. But I am going to question a couple of your arguments. First, you are not on that team, so you have no idea how the dynamics work. I see no issue with a skip asking the team, what are we going to do here. Lots of teams/players like to be able to have their voice at least heard on tough calls, but then are OK with whatever the skip decides at that point. Player management is part of skipping, and I see this only as evidence of that. It would be a different situation if Shuster were saying "Holy cow guys, this is hard and I have no idea what to call" but that isn't happening. Empowering your team and making them feel good and appreciated is good coaching in all sports.

Second, the LSD for hammer, while important, is not all that stressful, and is nothing like throwing the hammer in a live game. Being a skip means more than who can throw their draw a bit closer. This part of my statement might hurt my argument, but in the LSD, dont you have to have 2 separate players, each throwing a different turn in those LSD challenges?

Third, what large success has Plys had since juniors? Seems to me that his resume is less accomplished than Shusters, not that he is not a good curler himself.

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Old Post 03-20-17 09:31PM
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gonzobob
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Apr 2013
Location: Brooklyn Park, MN
Posts: 27

quote:
Originally posted by curlky
This part of my statement might hurt my argument, but in the LSD, dont you have to have 2 separate players, each throwing a different turn in those LSD challenges?



Yes, the two LSD stones before a game must be thrown by different players and with a different turn (cw and ccw). And all four players are actually required to throw some LSDs throughout a tournament. The minimum number per player depends on the number of round robin games and it is >= 1/3 but <= 1/2 the number of games.

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Old Post 03-20-17 10:08PM
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Clappy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 28

I completely agree about not being on the team and understanding their dynamics, that kind of why I was asking...I can only give my opinion from my perspective. I do realize that a lot of skips take advice from their team. Koe and Jacobs come to mind. But Shuster does appear to have the "I don't know what to do here, what do you all think" attitude when posed with a real decision.

Last edited by Clappy on 03-20-17 at 10:17PM

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Old Post 03-20-17 10:15PM
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Clappy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 28

quote:
Originally posted by gonzobob


Yes, the two LSD stones before a game must be thrown by different players and with a different turn (cw and ccw). And all four players are actually required to throw some LSDs throughout a tournament. The minimum number per player depends on the number of round robin games and it is >= 1/3 but <= 1/2 the number of games.



I was actually referring to a tie breaker draw to the button, not the draw for hammer.

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Old Post 03-20-17 10:16PM
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curlky
Swing Artist

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 468

Clappy, you referenced events where this occurred, meaning multiple. What events were you referring to?

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Old Post 03-20-17 11:55PM
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Grat
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 93

It was the last draw of Curling Night in America. I believe the situation was John had just thrown two hits and Tyler's last rock was a draw, so they had Tyler throw the "skip" stone for the tie-break. Not sure of any other examples.

I don't see the HPP putting Plys back at skip any time soon, they've tried that and must not have liked the results. He had good results with Heater this season, but they under-performed at Nationals.

Not sure what Shuster's got to do. He stays out of the HPP the first year, assembles a team from players who weren't selected for the HPP, earns more points than the hand-picked teams, and wins Nationals.

The next year he earns more points than everyone again, loses to Clark at Nationals, but medals at Worlds, and you can argue about how much of the losses to Brady and co was due to directional sweeping.

He follows that up with a slower season, but wins Nationals again and earns another spot at Worlds.

I think it's hard to argue that he's not the best skip available right now, and I think his involvement of teammate in shot selection is probably a sign of growth and respect more than uncertainty.

Last edited by Grat on 03-21-17 at 12:25AM

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Old Post 03-21-17 12:23AM
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Gerry
CZ Founder

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3857

Tyler has been one of the top skips in the USA in the past and longtime rival to clubmate John Shuster. In 2009, they finished first and second in the round robin and eventually met in the final for the right to go to the Worlds and Olympics.

Both have had quite a bit of success at the National level, but Tyler has yet to breakout as skip. Instead of beating each other up, they came together a few years ago to form the current team. You've seen it happen in Canada lots too where top players come together to form an even stronger team.

Shuster has the ability to be one of the top skips in the game and he's really matured the last few seasons. Just seeing him make the draw to win the Nationals this year is a huge step forward in his approach to the game. In the past, Shuster wouldn't trust his teammates to take it home but now he let's them do their job.

He's had issues in the past with game calling (too aggressive to score 2 or even more) but is coming into his own with his game calling and patience. A bronze at last year's Worlds, this team battled on the Grand Slams and will be in contention for a medal again in Edmonton.

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Old Post 03-21-17 08:19AM
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Clappy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 28

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
Shuster has the ability to be one of the top skips in the game and he's really matured the last few seasons.


I guess I have to concede that he has matured the past few seasons, and he probably is one of the best skips the US has to offer...but one of the top skips in the world??? I think this just shows how far the US still has to come in order to really be competitive on the elite level.

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Old Post 03-21-17 09:46AM
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Thamilton
Knee-Slider

Registered: Mar 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2

Just because Shuster calls a more complex and yes risky game doesn't make him a bad skip. As all players get better and better it is very hard to win playing a clean and conservative game, look at Brad Jacobs as of late or for a US example Craig Brown. When you play ultra conservative you have to be basically perfect to win at the highest level and you also need to have almost perfect ice.

Shuster likes to play more risk reward and for the most part when he plays against the big boys he competes very well. Let's not forget he won the World Bronze last year, went undefeated at US Nationals and made the playoffs at the last Grand Slam.

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Old Post 03-21-17 10:14AM
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AlanMacNeill
Drawmaster

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 888

quote:
Originally posted by Clappy


but one of the top skips in the world???



His Bronze medal at World's a year ago would seem to indicate that maybe, just maybe, he might be exactly that...

And the mark of a good skip is realizing who's the right person to take the right shot....if you just threw two hits, and your Vice threw two good draws, and you need a draw as the tiebreaker, wouldn't it make sense to have the guy who just did exactly that do it?

Had the tiebreaker been some sort of raise double, Shuster would've thrown it...but it wasn't.

Shuster is not only the best we have, he's among the best the World Has, outside of Canada, who only gets to send one team a year to World's anyhow.

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Old Post 03-21-17 10:54AM
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westcoveroadie
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2012
Location:
Posts: 28

Ridiculous thread.

I propose we table this discussion, perhaps even throw some support the home team's way, at least until after Worlds.

Shuster and company have earned their way to Edmonton. They must be doing something right.

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Old Post 03-21-17 04:02PM
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gonzobob
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Apr 2013
Location: Brooklyn Park, MN
Posts: 27

quote:
Originally posted by Clappy


I was actually referring to a tie breaker draw to the button, not the draw for hammer.



Oh. I thought you meant when LSD/DSC is used as a tiebreaker for playoff seeding.

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