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<smallfont><b><a href=CurlingZone > Chat Forums > Tours, Events and Major Championships > U.S.A. Curling > Somebody's gotta say it

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11-15-17 10:55AM
AlanMacNeill is offline Click Here to See the Profile for AlanMacNeill Click here to Send AlanMacNeill a Private Message Find more posts by AlanMacNeill Add AlanMacNeill to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
AlanMacNeill
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Somebody's gotta say it

Guess Team Birr really does belong there, huh?

Guaranteed no worse than 3rd, and possibly in the finals as it stands currently...

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11-15-17 11:09AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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They certainly do. It's been fun cheering them on!

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11-15-17 11:15AM
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It's obvious this was what they were fighting against. If they win this the HP's record against self formed teams, Shuster in all years included, is pathetic.

Just think what might have been with Doctor Double still on the team.

The women's on the other hand seems to be an overwhelming success. But they have fewer and younger people to choose from.

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11-15-17 03:03PM
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Re: Somebody's gotta say it

quote:
Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
Guess Team Birr really does belong there, huh?

Guaranteed no worse than 3rd, and possibly in the finals as it stands currently...



Can't disagree. I think the USCA appeals committee was pretty clear that the discretionary picks abused objectivity by discarding Birr.

What is most troubling to me is that the way we are developing our competitive curlers appears to be steeped in paranoia about failure, where we seem to be going to great lengths to "protect" selected teams from competition. If we are doing things right, the "select" teams should normally dominate the field. I would have loved to see a larger trials event, with maybe 6-8 teams (if available) competing. So what if some of the developmental teams invited become "cupcakes"? These teams and players would get extraordinary experience for the future, while the top teams (should) duke it out for the big prize. I just think we are shortening our bench when we artificially and arbitrarily limit competition. The Canadians are going to have a bucket-load of teams in the Roar of the RIngs, and the Road to the Roar had 14 pretty good teams, too, it not in the same tier as the already-qualified. The cream will rise to the top. Don't skim off the fat too early--let'em compete and get experience!

In the current team-limited format, we are playing in one case a triple round robin to eliminate ONE team from contention. It is possible for the women to have played each other 6(!) times to determine a champion. On the mens side the winners might play 5 times. Yowza. Only a few teams are getting experience, and some of these teams likely won't be competitive for the next Olympic cycle.

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11-15-17 08:11PM
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Re: Re: Somebody's gotta say it

quote:
Originally posted by RockDoc


Can't disagree. I think the USCA appeals committee was pretty clear that the discretionary picks abused objectivity by discarding Birr.

What is most troubling to me is that the way we are developing our competitive curlers appears to be steeped in paranoia about failure, where we seem to be going to great lengths to "protect" selected teams from competition. If we are doing things right, the "select" teams should normally dominate the field. I would have loved to see a larger trials event, with maybe 6-8 teams (if available) competing. So what if some of the developmental teams invited become "cupcakes"? These teams and players would get extraordinary experience for the future, while the top teams (should) duke it out for the big prize. I just think we are shortening our bench when we artificially and arbitrarily limit competition. The Canadians are going to have a bucket-load of teams in the Roar of the RIngs, and the Road to the Roar had 14 pretty good teams, too, it not in the same tier as the already-qualified. The cream will rise to the top. Don't skim off the fat too early--let'em compete and get experience!

In the current team-limited format, we are playing in one case a triple round robin to eliminate ONE team from contention. It is possible for the women to have played each other 6(!) times to determine a champion. On the mens side the winners might play 5 times. Yowza. Only a few teams are getting experience, and some of these teams likely won't be competitive for the next Olympic cycle.



I think the women's side appears as a success because the system pushed out other women's teams (Brown, Lank, etc).

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11-16-17 08:55AM
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Birr is now sitting one tiebreaker away from making the final two playoff. The HP leaders worst fear is now 3 losses away from reality.

While Shuster has always been the odds on favorite, Birr was one of the top teams after last years trials and has proven it again even after they stripped their vice away from them. The fact they had to go to a lawyer to even get here is a black mark on the qualification process.

I hope a lesson is learned and that wiser decisions are made by the USCA in the future.

America loves an underdog and right now many curlers in the USA have a new team to root for.

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11-16-17 11:42AM
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Which brings me to a question...

*IF* Birr wins 3 of their next four games, and becomes Team USA...

Do they reunite them with their relocated Vice?

Would Birr want him?

Would the USCA/USOC want him on the team?

Would he want to return?

Would he rejoin the main 4, or be the 5th, or would Clawson get a “Hey, thanks...now go sit on the bench”?

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11-16-17 01:10PM
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Enjoying the streams

Thought I'd try something positive. I have really been enjoying the NBCSport streams and how TESN handles the commentary. I'm hoping that NBC considers Jess or Dean for the Olympics as they have both added a lot to the webcasts! It's a hard job to do well - their experiences are showing through.

I do agree with a previous poster that there seems to be an irrational fear of an "unworthy" team winning so instead of trials that embrace the country we get trials that embrace the HPP. Wouldn't it have been better to be exposed to new curlers instead of three women's teams playing for half a week to eliminate one? It's the promise of the Cinderella's that make the early rounds exciting.

Still, glad to be able to see Team Birr give a good accounting of themselves.

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11-16-17 01:53PM
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Speaking personally I'd like to thank all the teams that participated this week in the event and the folks who made it possible for us to watch via the best streaming only coverage we have ever had for a US event.

For those teams not moving on to the weekend and for the teams that will ultimately not prevail in the best of 3, while you may not have achieved your full goal you represented your sport extremely well and provided many moments of curling excitement for those of us in the audience. For that I thank you, respect your dedication, and admire your skill.

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11-16-17 02:30PM
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Re: Enjoying the streams

quote:
Originally posted by TNH
Thought I'd try something positive. I have really been enjoying the NBCSport streams and how TESN handles the commentary. I'm hoping that NBC considers Jess or Dean for the Olympics as they have both added a lot to the webcasts! It's a hard job to do well - their experiences are showing through.


Absolutely! Joe Calabrese and his crew did an outstanding job of web-streaming this event. I hope the live TV coverage is as professional and knowledgable.

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11-16-17 03:04PM
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Great broadcast, love watching it on the Smart TV from my Lazy boy.

Congratulations to Birr on a great run. They must be thinking "What if" right now. Way to stick to your guns and push for what was always the right decision!

I have to give special Kudos to John Benton stepping into vice and doing a great job. Too bad The USCA made it so difficult for this former Olympian (and Birr as the winner of one of the last two world medals), to compete.

On another positive note, I did give praise earlier to the rise of the Women's program. We have three strong teams who have been competing at high levels internationally as well. this core group will produce big things I predict.

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11-16-17 06:18PM
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Yes they did. Never a doubt in my mind. I have been delighted to see them do well, just wish the second half of that tiebreak played out a bit differently... as I'm sure they do.

I am also happy to see the women playing so well. The level of play has is stronger than I have ever seen and that is awesome. It's clear that the HP model has succeeded in creating 3 good women's teams in this country. I just wonder what happens after this Olympic cycle because there has been no improvement in the depth of field. Alienating every woman curler over the age of 30 might not have been the best tactic, but I guess time will tell.

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11-16-17 09:03PM
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Sinclair was 2nd shot!

Oh my.
Does anyone else who watched the 10th end of Sinclair v. Roth Game 1 think, as I do, that Sinclair was actually lying 2 before they threw that hammer shot that turned it into 1? (I even hit pause and went and measured it on my big screen TV.)

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11-17-17 01:59AM
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In the midst of this Groundhog Day of the same teams playing over and over again, looked up all 1998-2014 Olympic champion skips's birthdays and the skips at the USA Trials for their ages during 2018 Olympics.

Average Olympic champion skip age: 39
High: Russ Howard 50
Low: Brad Jacobs 28
High: Anette Norberg 43
Low: Sandra Schmirler 34

Average age USA 2017 Trials final four skips: 32.5
= almost 2 Olympic cycles short of experience compared to average Olympic champions
- US men aged 35 & 41
- US women aged 29 & 26

Average age of all competing USA 2017 Trials skips:
Women 26
Men 41.4

Last edited by Alice on 11-17-17 at 02:07AM

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11-17-17 10:02AM
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Re: Sinclair was 2nd shot!

quote:
Originally posted by Observer
Oh my.
Does anyone else who watched the 10th end of Sinclair v. Roth Game 1 think, as I do, that Sinclair was actually lying 2 before they threw that hammer shot that turned it into 1? (I even hit pause and went and measured it on my big screen TV.)



When I first watched it, no I didn't think she was shot. But I just did the replay and paused it to measure and I am 90% sure she was sitting two and would have won.

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11-17-17 12:57PM
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I've changed my mind now. I did a screen grab and blew it up and measured the distances with a caliper, and I got an exact tie. Given that, I think they had to proceed just as they did and try to get that yellow out of there.

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