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12-29-17 02:39PM |
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ott-am
Swing Artist
Registered: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 371 |
Stoh
I just wanted to clarify some things that I found in the STOH program from last year, which I updated for 2017. This follows some speculation from ML on the Olympic prediction thread:
Most Scotties wins at skip:
Colleen Jones - 140 (19 appearances at skip, 21 total appearances)
Jennifer Jones - 124 (12 appearances, all at skip)
Connie Laliberte - 74
Kelly Scott - 68
Sue Anne Bartlett - 66
Cathy King - 57
Sandra Schmirler - 57
Michell Englot - 55
Rachel Homan - 54
Heather Strong - 54
Also, I believe the 16th Scotties team will be decided by the top CTRS teams that have not already qualified for the Scotties after the mid January provincials. Right now the order of teams is Jones, Carey, Homan (not eligible for Scotties), Einarson and Rocque. So, if neither Jennifer nor Chelsea win their respective province, they would play one game for the 16th spot. If one or both win, they would go down the list to see who would play in that game.
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12-29-17 06:50PM |
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ott-am
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Registered: Jan 2005
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Sherry has 42 wins. Shannon has 29. Heather must have fewer than 25, but remember, she played third for King a few times.
As far as championships by province (giving the province the win where the team was Team Canada and they won), it is:
Sask - 12
Man - 11
BC- 10
Ont - 8
Alberta - 7
Nova Scotia - 7
NB - 1
Quebec - 1
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12-30-17 02:40PM |
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darkwing01
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Nov 2016
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If your an autobirth, would you not have more than 14 appearances in 30 years Strong has 54 wins so it looks like the Legions numbers dont add up
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12-30-17 02:51PM |
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guido
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1418 |
quote: Originally posted by darkwing01
If your an autobirth, would you not have more than 14 appearances in 30 years
ssshhhh. The poster isn't known for her mathematical abilities.
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12-30-17 06:01PM |
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Deliverer
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Registered: Nov 2016
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ML. "Sue Ann Bartlett held an auto-birth in Newfoundland for nearly 30 years and had 14 Scotties appearances over that time".
That's incorrect. She had 12 Canadian Championship appearances over a 21 year period, the first of which was in '71, the last '91.
ML. " I would have thought J.J. had surpassed CoCo in total wins by now".
Given that Colleen has won 6 Canadian Championships to 5 for Jonesy, what kind of calculus did you ever use to come up with that conclusion?
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12-30-17 08:41PM |
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ott-am
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I believe MLs post was not meant to be literal. I think his point is that teams from provinces that are not as deep as others are bound to win more games at the Scotties due to the fact they might attend more than other teams. For example, I doubt Colleen Jones would have attended 21 Scotties or Sue Anne Bartlett 12 Scotties if they had been in Manitoba or Alberta. Either way, the two Joneses have quite a few more Scotties wins than anybody else.
As for the depth in womens curling in Canada, I would say it is stronger than ever, but concentrated in three provinces. This is borne out by the fact that of the 21 teams in the Trials and Pre Trials, 19 came from either Ontario (northern and southern), Manitoba or Alberta. That is not to say there are not strong teams from the other provinces. just the highest ranked teams are from the top three provinces.
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12-30-17 11:59PM |
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albetts
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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
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quote: Originally posted by ott-am
I believe MLs post was not meant to be literal. I think his point is that teams from provinces that are not as deep as others are bound to win more games at the Scotties due to the fact they might attend more than other teams. For example, I doubt Colleen Jones would have attended 21 Scotties or Sue Anne Bartlett 12 Scotties if they had been in Manitoba or Alberta. Either way, the two Joneses have quite a few more Scotties wins than anybody else.
As for the depth in womens curling in Canada, I would say it is stronger than ever, but concentrated in three provinces. This is borne out by the fact that of the 21 teams in the Trials and Pre Trials, 19 came from either Ontario (northern and southern), Manitoba or Alberta. That is not to say there are not strong teams from the other provinces. just the highest ranked teams are from the top three provinces.
Thank you for this post. Every once in a while this forum needs someone to put things in perspective. Thanks again.
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12-31-17 08:40AM |
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misty1
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Registered: Sep 2011
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thanks to this new stupid scotties/brier format one of jones, sweeting or carey are almost guaranteed to be there.
if not for that i'd say that this could be the most wide open field ever should none of them get there.
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12-31-17 10:10AM |
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Deliverer
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Registered: Nov 2016
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ML. "Rachel needs another 4 or 5 years to get into JJ.
country."
The plan, ML., is not to simply rack up Scotties wins; it's actually to win Scotties Championships, World Championships, the Olympic Trials, Olympic gold, and G.S. Championships, etc.
How many games that have to be won to achieve these championships is by comparison nearly irrelevant.
It's the number of Championships, bro, not the number of wins one accumulates along the way.
Gather ye rosebuds while ye may.
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12-31-17 01:57PM |
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ott-am
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Whether you like the new format or not, ML is right, at least it will guarantee another name team, no matter how the provincials go over the next two weeks. Speaking of which, it should be interesting in some provinces:
NL - while former Cdn junior champ Curtis travels quite a bit, I would not count Strong out.
NB - Robichaud has not played much this year, but should be in the hunt with Mallais and last year's champ, Armstrong.
PEI - McPhee is the only team that travels to play, so will be the favourite.
NS - Pretty deep field with veteran skips Arsenault and Breen, then McEvoy, McDiarmid and former Cdn junior champ Brothers.
Que - Belisle travels more than anybody, but you cannot count Larouche out playing in her home club, even though she does not play much these days. The field has not been disclosed yet, but I assume the younger teams like Neron, Perron and Lapierre will be in.
Ont - deep field with Flaxey, Tippin, Middaugh, Harrison, Auld and others. Whoever wins should be a playoff contender in Penticton.
NO - Two team battle as usual between McCarville and Fleury. Either would be contenders in the Scotties
MB - another deep field with Jones, Einarson, Robertson, Melleur, Birchard and others. Again, whoever wins will be a contender in the Okanagan.
SK - Pretty good field with veteran skips like Anderson, Holland and Lawton and up and comers like defending champ Barker, the Howard cousins and last years runner up Silvernagle (who have added Campbell at third).
AB - probably the toughest field with Carey, Scheideggar, Sweeting, Kleibrink, Rocque and Scotland. Whoever wins this will be one of the favourites at the Scotties.
BC - BC has had good success in juniors recently, but this has not translated to success at womens yet since Scott retired. Veteran Gushulak will be tough as will Pre-Trials team Thompson. This will be the first year in womens for former junior champ Brown and the first year for the three Van Osch sisters to be on the same team in womens play. Whoever wins this will have the home province support at the Scotties.
NWT - Galusha will be the favourite with Koltun joining forces with her at third.
Yukon and Nunavut - not sure
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01-01-18 09:41AM |
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decade
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Registered: Jan 2011
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quote: Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Superb analysis Art. I'd love to see some Ontario team pick up Jenn Hanna as 5th or coach - she's a tiger and one of the greats in Ontario curling lore.
I
Hanna is only a great in your mind. She was a two year wonder. There are at least a dozen other Ontario teams would be ranked ahead of her in historical stats,
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01-01-18 09:49AM |
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misty1
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Registered: Sep 2011
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quote: Originally posted by ott-am
Whether you like the new format or not, ML is right, at least it will guarantee another name team, no matter how the provincials go over the next two weeks. Speaking of which, it should be interesting in some provinces:
NL - while former Cdn junior champ Curtis travels quite a bit, I would not count Strong out.
NB - Robichaud has not played much this year, but should be in the hunt with Mallais and last year's champ, Armstrong.
PEI - McPhee is the only team that travels to play, so will be the favourite.
NS - Pretty deep field with veteran skips Arsenault and Breen, then McEvoy, McDiarmid and former Cdn junior champ Brothers.
Que - Belisle travels more than anybody, but you cannot count Larouche out playing in her home club, even though she does not play much these days. The field has not been disclosed yet, but I assume the younger teams like Neron, Perron and Lapierre will be in.
Ont - deep field with Flaxey, Tippin, Middaugh, Harrison, Auld and others. Whoever wins should be a playoff contender in Penticton.
NO - Two team battle as usual between McCarville and Fleury. Either would be contenders in the Scotties
MB - another deep field with Jones, Einarson, Robertson, Melleur, Birchard and others. Again, whoever wins will be a contender in the Okanagan.
SK - Pretty good field with veteran skips like Anderson, Holland and Lawton and up and comers like defending champ Barker, the Howard cousins and last years runner up Silvernagle (who have added Campbell at third).
AB - probably the toughest field with Carey, Scheideggar, Sweeting, Kleibrink, Rocque and Scotland. Whoever wins this will be one of the favourites at the Scotties.
BC - BC has had good success in juniors recently, but this has not translated to success at womens yet since Scott retired. Veteran Gushulak will be tough as will Pre-Trials team Thompson. This will be the first year in womens for former junior champ Brown and the first year for the three Van Osch sisters to be on the same team in womens play. Whoever wins this will have the home province support at the Scotties.
NWT - Galusha will be the favourite with Koltun joining forces with her at third.
Yukon and Nunavut - not sure
i agree, it guarantees at least one big name will be there. its not important for me personally but i can see why it is for the event.
agree with your analysis here. cant's disagree with much. much as i like larouche i dont think she's played anywhere this year. it's hard to win when your coming in with little no no practice. belisle is the massive favorite here but i wouldnt mind seeing someone new get through. quebec isnt going to be able to lean on larouche and belisle forever.
ontario will be interesting to see if flaxey can put it together for one event and have one bright spot in what's been a dismal season. is froud qualified she might have something to say too. it's harrison's best shot to get to a scotties but i'd like to see sherry get there.
manitoba and alberta are the 2 toughest and just to hard to call. would be great to see birchard get through but it'll be tough. alberta..im not even gonna try and make a pick either. everyone can beat everyone
saskatchewan has a lot of good or okay teams but no one great. lawton is well past her prime. same goes for holland and anderson. young teams like barker and howard just arent good enough to compete with the best..yet
van osch and brown are 2 of BC's best younger teams but neither travel much away from BC and i think that stops them from taking the next step, though i believe van osch does travel a little more. think brown is and will be the better of the 2 but it might be to soon to see her win this title yet. will probably be gushulak or thompson
galuska was the best by a wide margin in the northwest territories before and now with koltun the gap gets even larger.
Last edited by misty1 on 01-01-18 at 09:58AM
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01-01-18 04:51PM |
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ott-am
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Registered: Jan 2005
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Froud did not qualify for the Ontario Scotties, but all 12 teams are pretty good.
ML, I believe Jenn Hanna still plays in the club, but is not on the circuit.
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01-01-18 06:36PM |
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drawthepin
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Registered: Feb 2015
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Would not be surprised to see Justine Comeau win NB or Veronica Smith win PEI
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01-03-18 09:30AM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
quote: Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Good to hear Hanna is still curling in Ottawa - business league or whatever!
Any young team would be fortified by her presence as 5th player or coach. She's a steel-backed performer with tons of information to keep a younger team buoyed. Obviously, she's not right for vets like Middaugh or even a super-squad like Homan but just about any other team could benefit from her wisdom and experience!
I always loved her no-nonsense approach to the game. . . . . . . and that she (and her then 2nd player Dawn Askin) were the launching pad for Jennifer Jones stellar career!
For a skip that only appeared at the STOH twice, you are certainly smitten with her. Hanna's last appearance was rather lackluster IMO. Note that young teams have not asked her to be their 5th but Tippin did bring Sherri Middaugh to the trials.
To get to Olympic trials level you need to put in the time, something Hanna was quoted as saying she could not do.
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01-04-18 10:35AM |
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UnattachedFC
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Registered: Jan 2016
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quote: Originally posted by ott-am
Que - Belisle travels more than anybody, but you cannot count Larouche out playing in her home club, even though she does not play much these days. The field has not been disclosed yet, but I assume the younger teams like Neron, Perron and Lapierre will be in.
It has been. I saw at first 5 teams, but looks like there will be 8 teams in the Quebec Scotties. Lapiere isn't in this though.
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01-08-18 11:48AM |
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ott-am
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Registered: Jan 2005
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So far:
TC - Englot
NL - Curtis
PEI- MacPhee ( I think, they appeared to stop scoring after the men finished)
NB- Robichaud
NWT - Galusha
SK - Anderson
BC - Van Osch
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01-08-18 06:25PM |
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amandabulge
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MacPhee did win. If you had checked www.peicurling.com website and scoreboard you would of found score. I was posting on that site and someone us from curlingzone was taking my scores but didn't finish it of and they had a few mistakes on curlingzone on the weekend messing scores up. I have email Gerry and told him. Ones that know me when I do scores I take pride in doing it and I know curlingzone is a great site to get all scores but I do not have access to post scores to it.
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01-09-18 10:24AM |
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jonren
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Registered: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 50 |
Kaitlyn posted on social media that she is playing in provincials, not sure what this means for the National Scotties as that is in direct conflict with the Olympics.. I can imagine it was hard to find a suitable replacement so last minute as most of Manitoba's talent would have already been playing in the Provincial Scotties
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01-09-18 10:30AM |
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nelsosi
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Location: YYZ, Canada
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I'd imagine that if Jones wins Manitoba, then she'd find a replacement for the STOH for Kaitlyn - there would be a lot of options to choose from should that happen.
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01-09-18 10:36AM |
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CurlingZoneStats
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Registered: Feb 2016
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Kaitlyns replacement is totally irrelevant unless they win in Killarney.
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01-09-18 04:09PM |
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ott-am
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Registered: Jan 2005
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quote: Originally posted by amandabulge
MacPhee did win. If you had checked www.peicurling.com website and scoreboard you would of found score. I was posting on that site and someone us from curlingzone was taking my scores but didn't finish it of and they had a few mistakes on curlingzone on the weekend messing scores up. I have email Gerry and told him. Ones that know me when I do scores I take pride in doing it and I know curlingzone is a great site to get all scores but I do not have access to post scores to it.
Thanks for doing the scoring and sorry, I did not check PEI curling.
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01-09-18 04:12PM |
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amandabulge
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Location: Summerside, Prince Edward Island Canada
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No problem. Was frustrated with why curlingzone did not post the final results. It was pretty much back to back when the games finished and I when I updated the scores. Took me probably 30 seconds to do both.
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01-09-18 04:16PM |
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ott-am
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Registered: Jan 2005
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quote: Originally posted by amandabulge
No problem. Was frustrated with why curlingzone did not post the final results. It was pretty much back to back when the games finished and I when I updated the scores. Took me probably 30 seconds to do both.
I think most people figured out what the result was. Technical issues happen, but most of the time you can watch the results from all over the country at the same time on one site.
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01-10-18 09:24AM |
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Curlwalker
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Registered: Jan 2015
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Kaitlyn replacement
Kaitlyn will need to be replaced even if Jones doesn't win Manitoba because they will still be in the play-in game on points I believe. Although at that point they can probably pick from other teams that are out of the running for the Scotties. If they win Manitoba the sub must be from Manitoba I guess. If they don't the sub for the play-in game could be from anywhere as it is a CTRS team? Just a question.
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