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M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
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Draw: 6 -- Mon, Mar 18 -- 7:00pm AT
Gagn/Mori Final
Rees/Ches (EE)
Sand/Crai Final
Gamb/Kalt (8)
Arms/Grif Final
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Zhen/Piet Final
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Wasy/Koni Final
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Wise/Smit 12  Final
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Lott/Lott 12  Final
Bouc/Char (7)
Krev/Math Final
Whit/Whit (6)
M: Aberdeen International Curling Championship
Aberdeen, SCO
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Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 2:45pm GMT
Mouat Final
Shuster (7)
W: Biktrix Saskatchewan Senior Women's Curling Championship
Martensville, SK
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Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 3:00pm MT
Foster Final
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W: CCAA / Curling Canada College Championships
Sudbury, ON
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Draw: CF -- Sat, Mar 16 -- 2:30pm AT
Southern Alberta IoT Final
Concordia U (10)
UofA - Augustana Final
Humber College (10)
D: WCT Slovakia Mixed Doubles Cup II
Bratislava, SVK
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Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 12:00pm CET
Han/Zou Final
Paul/Paul (7)
Cihl/Mace Final
Yang/Tian 10  (6)
: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 4 -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 10:00am MT
Delorey Final
Koe (5)
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01-25-14 05:54PM
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Gerry
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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002

Re: wieghted zones

quote:
Originally posted by Prescott_Ian
for those who would like to read the rule

http://www.ontcurl.com/Images/up_im...t%20aug2013.pdf
page 6 has the rule
When the OCA implemented this rule i have to admit i was all for it sounds like a real good idea doesn't it.. example zone 1 has 8 entries zone 3 has only 3 entries take an entry from zone 3 and give it to zone 1, perfect problem solved.....but wait what about the fringe cases perfect example is region 1 sr. mixed

zone 1 6 entries
zone 2 4 entries
zone 3 5 entries
zone 4 6 entries

the ruling is take an entry from zone 2 and raffle it off between zone 1 and 4 .....now some one from the oca needs to explain to me the logic behind this decision and how it benefits anybody.... so zone 4 3 of the 6 teams will advance and zone 2 1 of the 4 teams advance perfect sense "NOT"
and yes im in zone 2 but really this makes sense to anyone?



I really like the weighted zones idea, but the application in this process doesn't work very well in the end.

In the 4 Zones, the original entries look like this:

Zone 1: 6 with 2 qualifiers = 33%
Zone 2: 4 with 2 qualifiers = 50%
Zone 3: 5 with 2 qualifies = 40%
Zone 4: 6 with 2 qualifiers = 33%

By removing one qualifier from Zone 2, you drop it's total to 25%, while increasing one of the Zones with 6 teams to 6 with 3 qualifiers or 50%.

The application here decreases the chance of qualifying in 1 zones to lower then anywhere else, and doesn't actually change the chance of qualifying in the zone that gets the 3rd entry from the Zone it removes it from. 2 in 4 = 50% or 3 in 6 = 50%.

I see this as a problem. Under this situation, it should have remained 2 across the board.

I like Curling Dave's ideas a lot, everyone's goes is to advance to regionals, so if there's less than 16 teams, I do like the full regional playoff. Only problem though is that Regionals are scheduled Sat-Sun, and clubs knowing this will still schedule their Friday Mixed league night. Might need to be a smaller number of teams to do a Sat-Sun Regional finish.

As for the teams who wouldn't want to skip the regionals and travel to this event? I think that excuse doesn't hold much water, since they're travelling if they win anyways. If they don't want to play, then just let them opt out.

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01-25-14 06:17PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: 1994 Lumina Dr
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I've actually asked the question" Would you travel to another zone, especially if you have to cross the region, to play a regional playdown as opposed to playing in your own zone" to teams at zone events ( and not just one event but various events) and the overwhelming response is no. The OCA wants to increase participation as opposed to decreasing it, so telling teams to opt out or play in a meat spiel instead is a non starter.

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01-25-14 06:48PM
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Second
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 27

quote:
Originally posted by dugless_13
If you are that bent out of shape about them getting in automatically, parachute into that zone and play a best two out of three to see who goes to regionals. [/B]


The problem being zone entries are not posted until well after the cutoff deadline. Usually not until a week before Zones if you're lucky.

In this age of computers and everyone being required to enter online, why can't the OCA post the number of entires as they occur. Then you would have the parachuting option, or better yet, if teams see their zone has only five entries, maybe they'll try to get another team to enter to get to six.

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01-25-14 07:22PM
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Gerry
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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002

quote:
Originally posted by Second


The problem being zone entries are not posted until well after the cutoff deadline. Usually not until a week before Zones if you're lucky.

In this age of computers and everyone being required to enter online, why can't the OCA post the number of entires as they occur. Then you would have the parachuting option, or better yet, if teams see their zone has only five entries, maybe they'll try to get another team to enter to get to six.



A live update of the zone entries would turn all the curlers into sales people, promoting to other club members to enter and participate. An ulterior motive to increase qualifying berths would definitely be in play here, but it would likely help to get the numbers up as well.

Sometimes all the teams in a club need is a little peer pressure and support to give playdowns a chance.

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01-25-14 10:05PM
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dugless_13
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: 1994 Lumina Dr
Posts: 91

quote:
Originally posted by Second


The problem being zone entries are not posted until well after the cutoff deadline. Usually not until a week before Zones if you're lucky.

In this age of computers and everyone being required to enter online, why can't the OCA post the number of entires as they occur. Then you would have the parachuting option, or better yet, if teams see their zone has only five entries, maybe they'll try to get another team to enter to get to six.



Or you could just promote more entries in your club, even your zone. Most of us know the competitive and near competitive curlers in our zones and in our clubs. Talk up the event you are in, maybe get that extra team or two, and that extra entry.

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01-26-14 06:53PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Cardinal
Posts: 34

I understand the intent of the rule but I guess maybe the math should be reviewed for future years. here's my take on what the math should be It’s one thing to require 20% of the entries to get a second spot but a zone should also have to have a minimum percentage in order to get a third spot (e.g. 35% for a third spot, 50% for a fourth spot). At the end of the day, there is no way that a 6, 4, 5, 6 split should result in one zone getting 3 spots.

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01-27-14 09:26AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Sep 2011
Location: BrockVegas
Posts: 43

quote:
Originally posted by dugless_13
I've actually asked the question" Would you travel to another zone, especially if you have to cross the region, to play a regional playdown as opposed to playing in your own zone" to teams at zone events ( and not just one event but various events) and the overwhelming response is no. The OCA wants to increase participation as opposed to decreasing it, so telling teams to opt out or play in a meat spiel instead is a non starter.


Dugless:
Down here in Eastern Ontario, the OCA actually OFTEN schedules multiple zone playdowns at the SAME CLUB on the same day. See Tankard and Intermediates for examples. This makes even more ridiculous the idea of 3 teams playing for one spot and 6 playing for four. Couldn't the nine teams play for the available spots?

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01-27-14 09:46AM
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CoachBrewer
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Sep 2011
Location: BrockVegas
Posts: 43

quote:
Originally posted by CoachBrewer


Dugless:
Down here in Eastern Ontario, the OCA actually OFTEN schedules multiple zone playdowns at the SAME CLUB on the same day. See Tankard and Intermediates for examples. This makes even more ridiculous the idea of 3 teams playing for one spot and 6 playing for four. Couldn't the nine teams play for the available spots?



I should also add that we've just entered a zone 1 playdown where the location is listed as TBA, and the deadline has passed. That means that Ottawa teams must enter without knowing if the playdown is in Vankleek Hill or Lancaster or Cornwall and vice versa. For that matter, the OCA may schedule the playdown at the Zone 2 club (like Perth, for example in this case).
Lancaster to Perth: 2 hrs, 25 minutes according to Mapquest.
That's for a zone playdown where we might get one entry for three teams while the local zone might get four entries for six teams.

Again, I love the IDEA of weighted zones. We just don't have the APPLICATION quite right. And down here, at least, we could merge the zone play (the OCA merges the locations already) and INCREASE fairness.

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02-03-14 10:35AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 56

Another example of a weighted zone fail, zone 8 Colts has 3 teams entered and needs 5 games to complete. Last game is potentially Sun at 2:00. WTF? Could you imagine going 3-2 in a 3 team zone?

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02-03-14 01:09PM
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dugless_13
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: 1994 Lumina Dr
Posts: 91

How is that a fail, you have to get down from three teams to one team and it can be done in four games, five if the A-side team loses a game. Should a zone with 3 entries get the same number of teams through as a zone with 12 entries?

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02-12-14 12:49PM
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CoachBrewer
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Sep 2011
Location: BrockVegas
Posts: 43

quote:
Originally posted by dugless_13
How is that a fail, you have to get down from three teams to one team and it can be done in four games, five if the A-side team loses a game. Should a zone with 3 entries get the same number of teams through as a zone with 12 entries?


Dugless:
Again, we're okay with the IDEA of weighted zones. We just don't have the APPLICATION quite right yet.
Incidentally, it's now Wednesday and the OCA hasn't quite got the ice figured out for our zone playdowns THIS weekend. It was originally posted as TBA, then earlier this week they posted Winchester, now it's back to TBA. We've offered Sunday ice at Cornwall, and apparently there's some ice late Saturday afternoon at Ottawa CC, but it's a crap shoot at this point where we're playing. Small wonder they couldn't get the usual number of entries (7 or 8)...
Instead, two good teams will play for one spot. Fair enough. But don't blame the curlers for not entering when they don't even know when and where they'll be playing...

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07-12-14 11:14AM
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J-Ho
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Registered: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 2418

quote:
Originally posted by dugless_13
How is that a fail, you have to get down from three teams to one team and it can be done in four games, five if the A-side team loses a game. Should a zone with 3 entries get the same number of teams through as a zone with 12 entries?


Because the zone entries aren't capped Doug, they are variables from year to year. Has the OCA thought about the financial hit a club takes who hosts a zone with only three entries? Especially if they are going to lose two days of rentals, leagues, etc.

It's a shame someone didn't perceive these headaches back when this whole weighted zone concept started...

JH

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07-15-14 04:48PM
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scorer79
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 94

Why doesn't the OCA follow what Curling Quebec has done and just move to regional playdowns plus team ontario and 3 tour qualifiers? It seems to work pretty well. I've played in the regional system in Quebec and even the travel schedule isn't that bad.

At the provincials you could even go to 2 pools of 6 teams with the top 2 or 3 qualifying for the playoffs.

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07-22-14 12:15AM
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mattpaul
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 37

quote:
Originally posted by dugless_13
I've actually asked the question" Would you travel to another zone, especially if you have to cross the region, to play a regional playdown as opposed to playing in your own zone" to teams at zone events ( and not just one event but various events) and the overwhelming response is no. The OCA wants to increase participation as opposed to decreasing it, so telling teams to opt out or play in a meat spiel instead is a non starter.


quote:
Originally posted by dugless_13
I've actually asked the question" Would you travel to another zone, especially if you have to cross the region, to play a regional playdown as opposed to playing in your own zone" to teams at zone events ( and not just one event but various events) and the overwhelming response is no. The OCA wants to increase participation as opposed to decreasing it, so telling teams to opt out or play in a meat spiel instead is a non starter.

I'm sorry but that's faulty logic. Participation in playdowns will not increase/decrease based on a little travel and you know what if it does then FINE. It'll get rid of some of the **** teams that make it through on CRAP zone ice that freaking reps put us on like god damn Pakenham where you needed 8 inches negative ice and it would fall back into the rock....
If you raise the entry amalgamate the zones and announce the weekend early you can host it in the bigger clubs, make it more of an event....this "I talked to everyone and everyone hates it" is garbage....everyone I've spoken to in Region 1 loves it...get us out of the sticks and put a regional spiel at the RCMP and then alternate with one of the bigger Kingston clubs....a raised entry could mean an ice maker like, oh Ian MacAulay could supervise playdown ice and have it at a minimum standard like in golf....this "we want people to play" is crap from years and years and years ago....long gone are the Wednesday night mens team going to provs and maybe the Brier....not that it ever happened....here's a thought, a playdown team could ACTUALLY represent the club in which they play!!! Pretty much 75% of all Region 1 playdown teams are Rideau and OCC teams that just join different clubs to split themselves up...if a team wants to play a meat spiel THEN THEY SHOULDNT BE IN PLAYDOWNS....you increase playdown participation through JUNIOR curling and then continuing that curling through university and post junior....many quit from age 20-30 because of cost, time etc....furthermore, the game is more difficult now....4 rock rule has separated the club teams from even the provincial curling tour team by such a wide margin it's crazy....meat spiel teams....good god.....competitive curling will not be rejuvenated by the meat spiel team.....you know why Sault Ste. Marie has produced some pretty darn good players that still play today? It's junior program for the last 30 years that Tom Coulterman orchestrated....we had a very competitive high school league that had us on the ice twice a week from 4-6pm EJ, Ryan, Brad, Rajala, Buchan, Jakomait, the older Harndens and many others still play...it's an 8 sheet curling club that's actually thriving...if a team wants to get better and improve the fact that playdowns are a bigger event is a good thing...what experience does winning a 4 team zone get you? It just weakens the region if 3 good teams are in another....
I'm glad I quit....have fun everyone...
Matt Paul

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Curling Scores

M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Mon, Mar 18 -- 7:00pm AT
Gagn/Mori Final
Rees/Ches (EE)
Sand/Crai Final
Gamb/Kalt (8)
Arms/Grif Final
Pete/Gall (7) Watch Live Curling!
Zhen/Piet Final
Gion/Desj (7)
Wasy/Koni Final
Jone/Lain (EE)
Wise/Smit 12  Final
Weag/Eppi (6)
Lott/Lott 12  Final
Bouc/Char (7)
Krev/Math Final
Whit/Whit (6)
M: Aberdeen International Curling Championship
Aberdeen, SCO
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 2:45pm GMT
Mouat Final
Shuster (7)
D: WCT Slovakia Mixed Doubles Cup II
Bratislava, SVK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 12:00pm CET
Han/Zou Final
Paul/Paul (7)
Cihl/Mace Final
Yang/Tian 10  (6)
: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 4 -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 10:00am MT
Delorey Final
Koe (5)
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