Forums Menu

User: 
Pass:  

Curling Scores

M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Mon, Mar 18 -- 7:00pm AT
Gagn/Mori Final
Rees/Ches (EE)
Sand/Crai Final
Gamb/Kalt (8)
Arms/Grif Final
Pete/Gall (7) Watch Live Curling!
Zhen/Piet Final
Gion/Desj (7)
Wasy/Koni Final
Jone/Lain (EE)
Wise/Smit 12  Final
Weag/Eppi (6)
Lott/Lott 12  Final
Bouc/Char (7)
Krev/Math Final
Whit/Whit (6)
M: Aberdeen International Curling Championship
Aberdeen, SCO
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 2:45pm GMT
Mouat Final
Shuster (7)
W: Biktrix Saskatchewan Senior Women's Curling Championship
Martensville, SK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 3:00pm MT
Foster Final
Streifel (8) Watch Live Curling!
W: CCAA / Curling Canada College Championships
Sudbury, ON
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sat, Mar 16 -- 2:30pm AT
Southern Alberta IoT Final
Concordia U (10)
UofA - Augustana Final
Humber College (10)
D: WCT Slovakia Mixed Doubles Cup II
Bratislava, SVK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 12:00pm CET
Han/Zou Final
Paul/Paul (7)
Cihl/Mace Final
Yang/Tian 10  (6)
: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 4 -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 10:00am MT
Delorey Final
Koe (5)
Full Scoreboard  |  Play Fantasy Pick'em!  

CurlingZone : Powered by vBulletin>
<smallfont><b><a href=CurlingZone > Chat Forums > General Curling Chat > Ice and Ice Makers > Can Warm Zamboni Tires Cause Valleys?

Disclaimer: CurlingZone does not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any Content posted on any Forums area and you acknowledge that any reliance upon such Content shall be at your sole risk. Any Content placed on any Forums area by users and anonymous posters are the views of the user posting the statement, and do not represent the views of CurlingZone or our partners, advertisers or sponsors. By posting anonymously, you are allowing your IP address to be displayed for identification purposes. CurlingZone reserves the right to remove any post at its discretion without warning or explanation.
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread   Post A Reply
07-26-14 01:28PM
mikflut is offline Click Here to See the Profile for mikflut Click here to Send mikflut a Private Message Find more posts by mikflut Add mikflut to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
mikflut
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Dec 2013
Location:
Posts: 2

Can Warm Zamboni Tires Cause Valleys?

TIA for helping me out.

I'm doing some summer curling at the Prince William Ice Center (PWIC) (arena that hosts curling twice a week) and for the past several weeks every sheet has had multiple valleys running down the ice. Any stone that enters the valley will actually move back and forth in it while traveling down the ice.

(Previously there would be occasional ridges, not surprising for arena ice but nothing nearly as dramatic)

I'm trying to come up with suggestions for the facility manager to try and correct this issue. Our current theory is that the zamboni tires are too warm. (Before this issue, the overhead door to the zamboni storage room was open during play, and now it is closed all the time and the zamboni storage room feels very warm).

Is this a plausible cause of our problem? Are there any other suggestions?

Ice prep at PWIC consists of running the zamboni over the ice, placing the hacks while the ice is still wet, and then doing a two-pass pebble.

Thanks for your help! (I'm going to be chatting with the owner soon to try and find a solution to this)

Michael

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

07-26-14 10:35PM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559

Honestly, I am not sure. But as an arena curler, my guess is that you are thinking small, while you should be thinking big. I would bet that at most, the tires are maybe 10% of the problem.

I can tell you that I have played on arena ice in the morning, and the ice was "great for arena ice" then there were some hockey games during the day, and at night, the ice stunk. All Im saying is that one bad cut can cause huge issues.

Here are some thing I would like to know.

When the Zamboni cuts the ice, are they doing a single pass, or double pass?

Are they doing a wet cut or dry cut or both?

Are they going lengthwise down the ice, or side to side, or figure eight cut?

Is the person driving the ice a professional zamboni operator, or just some kid that works the desk and also operates the zamboni?

Are you new to curling, or just new to arena curling?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

07-27-14 06:35PM
mikflut is offline Click Here to See the Profile for mikflut Click here to Send mikflut a Private Message Find more posts by mikflut Add mikflut to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
mikflut
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Dec 2013
Location:
Posts: 2

quote:
Originally posted by curlky
Honestly, I am not sure. But as an arena curler, my guess is that you are thinking small, while you should be thinking big. I would bet that at most, the tires are maybe 10% of the problem.

I can tell you that I have played on arena ice in the morning, and the ice was "great for arena ice" then there were some hockey games during the day, and at night, the ice stunk. All Im saying is that one bad cut can cause huge issues.

Here are some thing I would like to know.

When the Zamboni cuts the ice, are they doing a single pass, or double pass?


I have observed a Single Pass with some overlap (I think)
quote:

Are they doing a wet cut or dry cut or both?


It is a wet cut (there is water coming out the back).
quote:

Are they going lengthwise down the ice, or side to side, or figure eight cut?


Lengthwise starting down the middle, then going up the side, then expanding out from those two points.
quote:

Is the person driving the ice a professional zamboni operator, or just some kid that works the desk and also operates the zamboni?


As far as I know, it is a mix of semi-pro and less experienced operators, but more then just a random worker.
quote:

Are you new to curling, or just new to arena curling?


I have played for 4 years at Potomac (4 sheet dedicated ice in Laurel, MD). I've volunteered some for ice prep (I've scraped a dozen times, twice on my own, and I pebble for my league)

What puzzles us curlers in this summer league is the abrupt change in playing conditions. For the first 5 weeks it was good arena ice, and then suddenly it got a LOT worse.

Thanks for helping!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

07-28-14 09:44AM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559

The first thing to remember, is that you have about a 99% chance of you thinking the ice is terrible if you play on dedicated ice. What you are describing is very normal for every arena curler in the US. While I was at the Arena National Championships, I attended a seminar on how to make arena ice better hosted by Kevin Madsen, who is the arena ice whisperer. Here are my notes from the class.

NOTES FROM CLASS

Arenas that are sand based, tend to be higher in the middle.
Arenas that are concrete based tend to be higher near the boards.

For best results, the proper way to Zamboni prepare arena curling ice is
Normal Resurface/Flood
Followed by a dry cut going lengthwise down the sheets
Followed by a dry cut in a figure eight pattern around the ice. With this pattern, the blade height should be set so that it is barely touching the ice, and therefore only takes off any undesired peaks.
This three pass technique will probably lead to a 30 minute Zamboni prep.
The side to side zamboni technique will lead to the rock having a "bumpy" path down the sheet.

Level ice appears to start with a good edger at the arena.

Related to the Zamboni, it is best to make sure that the drivers adjust the rate of water flood while they slow down the machine and turn, so as to prevent too much water from getting put down on these sections. Since they turn right at the house, too much water will cause weird house rock movement.

For the pebble to be applied, use the highest quality water you have available. In a worst case you can go to Walmart and buy Steamed Distilled Water for $0.88 per gallon.

While some experimentation might be necessary for everyone’s exact situation, a hotter pebble is typically best to be used. Typically the hotter pebble water will produce pebble that will hold up the longest.

If using bad/tap water, it is practically impossible to get pebble to stand up. It will tend to be flat, but at least it will be firm if hot water was used.

It is possible to heat the steamed distilled water gallons from Walmart, from various techniques. You can use a coffee percolator. Someone suggested a product made by Coleman called “Hot Water On Demand™ Portable Water Heater” which can be found here http://tinyurl.com/otqnz8z

The expert whose name I did not get, who sat in the back of our session, suggested that for maybe $250 per season, you could rent a system from Culligan that would produce Zero TDS Water.

Kevin Madsen sent out the link to a ice making video that was recommended to be watched by all those involved in making arena ice for curling.
http://www.willmarmn.gov/wrac/show-...on?show_id=1432

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

07-28-14 09:52AM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559

With a single pass cut of the ice, you will have weird qualities of the ice, and it is unavoidable if you think about how a zamboni works. As the blade cuts, it will lower the ice surface level for the width of the blade. The next pass the zamboni makes will overlap, meaning that part of the blade will be on the level of the surface that was just cut, while the rest/majority of the blade will be on the surface of the uncut ice. This guarantees that the blade will not be level on the ice that it is cutting, and will have a bit of a slant. that slant will greatly move the rock left and/or right. If the rock goes back and forth as it travels down the ice, my best guess is that the zamboni did not actually drive straight down teh ice, and the slight side to side movement of the zamboni creates a zig zag rut in teh ice that will make the rock go crazy as it goes down the ice.

Remember that this is an issue that hockey people really care about, so drivers are not used to dealing with this, and even if they know about it from curlers, they dont know what to do about it.

The other single biggest thing to watch for is where the zamboni turns on teh ice. I see many of the drivers at our rink, who operate the zamboni all the time, do their turns right around the house, rather than at the boards. This is a huge no-no.

Good luck with dealing with it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

08-12-14 12:55PM
duct_tape is offline Click Here to See the Profile for duct_tape Click here to Send duct_tape a Private Message Find more posts by duct_tape Add duct_tape to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
duct_tape
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 1441

I don't think the tires would have any impact at all, especially if it's a wet flood.

Any minor imperfection the tire would leave would be cut off by the blade, then buried by the water.


My guess is the Zamboni blade isn't very good. Typically all they care about for skating/hockey is if the blade is sharp, not straight. Unfortunately there isn't a lot you can do about that as Zambonis aren't designed to produce ice quality for what you'd need for good curling conditions.

__________________
"Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

08-16-14 05:44PM
cranky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for cranky Click here to Send cranky a Private Message Find more posts by cranky Add cranky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
cranky
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Weyburn, Let's put an end to socialism, Sask
Posts: 77

Open hose flood once a week to level the whole surface. We used to do this every Sunday night in Gimli.

__________________
The bitter pill of responsibility is tough to swallow

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

All times are GMT. The time now is . Post New Thread   Post A Reply
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to thisThread

Forum Jump:
Rate This Thread:

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is OFF
 

Curling Scores

M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Mon, Mar 18 -- 7:00pm AT
Gagn/Mori Final
Rees/Ches (EE)
Sand/Crai Final
Gamb/Kalt (8)
Arms/Grif Final
Pete/Gall (7) Watch Live Curling!
Zhen/Piet Final
Gion/Desj (7)
Wasy/Koni Final
Jone/Lain (EE)
Wise/Smit 12  Final
Weag/Eppi (6)
Lott/Lott 12  Final
Bouc/Char (7)
Krev/Math Final
Whit/Whit (6)
M: Aberdeen International Curling Championship
Aberdeen, SCO
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 2:45pm GMT
Mouat Final
Shuster (7)
D: WCT Slovakia Mixed Doubles Cup II
Bratislava, SVK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 12:00pm CET
Han/Zou Final
Paul/Paul (7)
Cihl/Mace Final
Yang/Tian 10  (6)
: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 4 -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 10:00am MT
Delorey Final
Koe (5)
Full Scoreboard  |  Play Fantasy Pick'em!  

Recent News

Recent
Canadian mixed doubles championship starts in Fredericton on Sunday

Canadian mixed doubles championship starts in Fredericton on Sunday

Marlee Powers and Luke Saunders of Halifax, Nova Scotia won 6-5 over Papley/van Amsterdam in the opening draw streamed on Curling Canada's Plus platform.

Curling Photos

Recent

Curling Blogs

Facebook Feed

Twitter Feed

To top ↑