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gushuechamp
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 36

Homan will surpass Jones

Although I am a huge fan of Jennifer Jones, I think Rachel Homan and Team Homan will surpass them before too long. If they win today they will already have matcched Jones's World record of 1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze, but in fewer attempts. If they win the Olympic Trials and Olympic Gold next year, not ensuring it or anything of course, but a decent bet and they are probably the favorites for both right now, Jones would have nothing on them except a couple more Scotties, and Homan and her team are so young and have many years of potential success yet unlike Jones who is probably almost done.

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Old Post 03-26-17 04:29AM
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Western Newbie
Hitting Paint

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 101

It is exciting to see the future of curling will result in stronger and better teams outperforming those who went before them. Fitness is something that has mattered in recent years, and with teams being able to step away from work and dedicate their time purely to curling is to be commended. Eve and Co have not held jobs, ever or Team Russia. Look at our top teams and see what they have had to work at to pay to get the opportunity to become successful. As more sponsorship $ and athletic funding comes available our curlers will also be able to dedicate their time to their success. It paid off for Team Canada.

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Old Post 03-26-17 06:03AM
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gushuechamp
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 36

quote:
Originally posted by Western Newbie
It is exciting to see the future of curling will result in stronger and better teams outperforming those who went before them. Fitness is something that has mattered in recent years, and with teams being able to step away from work and dedicate their time purely to curling is to be commended. Eve and Co have not held jobs, ever or Team Russia. Look at our top teams and see what they have had to work at to pay to get the opportunity to become successful. As more sponsorship $ and athletic funding comes available our curlers will also be able to dedicate their time to their success. It paid off for Team Canada.


I agree with all that but I do hope (and it is has already started thank goodness) we ease up on our "help" to other nations. We see what Canada has done with their genorosity making even countries like Russia, China, Japan, world powers in curling, and Switzerland to some extent although they were contenders before are much more dominant ones now.

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Old Post 03-26-17 06:16AM
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CaptMorgan
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 895

quote:
Originally posted by gushuechamp


I agree with all that but I do hope (and it is has already started thank goodness) we ease up on our "help" to other nations. We see what Canada has done with their genorosity making even countries like Russia, China, Japan, world powers in curling, and Switzerland to some extent although they were contenders before are much more dominant ones now.



So, instead of watching two teams, like we saw at the Brier, curl in the 92-94% range, we should settle for Canada beating teams that curl say 80%?

Improving the game world wide improves the game. Period.

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Old Post 03-26-17 05:44PM
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gushuechamp
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 36

quote:
Originally posted by CaptMorgan


So, instead of watching two teams, like we saw at the Brier, curl in the 92-94% range, we should settle for Canada beating teams that curl say 80%?

Improving the game world wide improves the game. Period.



It does but Canada is also paying the price We win much less than we used to. Look at how Homan's win here is the first World title for a Canadian womens team since 2008. That is crazy.

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Old Post 03-26-17 06:24PM
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CaptMorgan
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 895

quote:
Originally posted by gushuechamp


It does but Canada is also paying the price We win much less than we used to. Look at how Homan's win here is the first World title for a Canadian womens team since 2008. That is crazy.



So Canada should try to make the rest of the world less good at curling so we can get back to dominating at lower percentage team averages?

How about funding top curlers so that they can raise their game to Homan's level?

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Old Post 03-26-17 09:25PM
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On The Nose
Swing Artist

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 351

quote:
Originally posted by CaptMorgan


So Canada should try to make the rest of the world less good at curling so we can get back to dominating at lower percentage team averages?

How about funding top curlers so that they can raise their game to Homan's level?


By not helping other countries improve, Canada would certainly not be "making them less good". It's not like Canada would be sabotaging the efforts of other countries - only that we wouldn't be helping them. There's a huge difference between the two approaches, obviously - and they should never be mixed into the same equation.

It's a difficult situation to assess overall... On the one hand, Canadians going over and helping other countries with their curling is noble, and is obviously helping to grow the sport in those countries, and thus worldwide...
But doing this also has a negative impact on Canadian curling - in that if those who go to other countries to teach instead stayed here to teach, Canadian curling would be stronger than it is now. But curling in other countries would be weaker.

As I mentioned - it's difficult to assess which is the better path...

__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world’s opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Old Post 03-27-17 12:12AM
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yctomi
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 15

quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose

By not helping other countries improve, Canada would certainly not be "making them less good". It's not like Canada would be sabotaging the efforts of other countries - only that we wouldn't be helping them. There's a huge difference between the two approaches, obviously - and they should never be mixed into the same equation.

It's a difficult situation to assess overall... On the one hand, Canadians going over and helping other countries with their curling is noble, and is obviously helping to grow the sport in those countries, and thus worldwide...
But doing this also has a negative impact on Canadian curling - in that if those who go to other countries to teach instead stayed here to teach, Canadian curling would be stronger than it is now. But curling in other countries would be weaker.

As I mentioned - it's difficult to assess which is the better path...



+1 Curling is still a minor sport and canadians helping other countries makes it more popular and better-known. At least in China it was after Team Wang won the worlds in 2009 that curling actually came into sight. But it creates more competition especially on the women's side. Canada has the greatest depth of teams but fell short on numerous occasions at worlds.

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Old Post 03-27-17 07:49AM
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curlky
Swing Artist

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 488

quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose
... On the one hand, Canadians going over and helping other countries with their curling is noble, and is obviously helping to grow the sport in those countries, and thus worldwide...
But doing this also has a negative impact on Canadian curling...



Canada isn't just going over and helping are they? I thought it was more like the situation with China and Marcel Rocque, where China paid him to be a national coach. TO me there is a big difference between free help, and then people being paid.

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Old Post 03-27-17 10:52AM
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Three
Swing Artist

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 241

Exactly, it is a free market. These other countries are not doing anything wrong and neither are the guys going over and coaching. These other curling federations are willing to hire good coaches from Canada...most of these guys are probably making way more than the could in any regular job non-curling working capacity. They would be fools to say no.

This happens in other sports all the time. Worldwide, most National coaches in soccer don't hail from the country they are coaching.

Stronger teams worldwide is a good thing for curling even if it means Canada gets fewer gold medal than we used to. Also, there are still lots of high level coaches left in Canada to coach our teams.

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Old Post 03-27-17 12:33PM
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Phil_D
Drawmaster

Registered: May 2014
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 584

quote:
Originally posted by Three
Exactly, it is a free market. These other countries are not doing anything wrong and neither are the guys going over and coaching. These other curling federations are willing to hire good coaches from Canada...most of these guys are probably making way more than the could in any regular job non-curling working capacity. They would be fools to say no.

This happens in other sports all the time. Worldwide, most National coaches in soccer don't hail from the country they are coaching.

Stronger teams worldwide is a good thing for curling even if it means Canada gets fewer gold medal than we used to. Also, there are still lots of high level coaches left in Canada to coach our teams.



Bingo.

And it's not like there's a shortage of quality coaches in Canada.

As was said, probably the biggest thing is the ability to essentially curl full time. If anything, growing the sport worldwide will lead to more sponsorships and more prize money, which in turn will allow more teams to be able to afford to curl full time.

__________________
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Old Post 03-27-17 01:32PM
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gushuechamp
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 36

Lets get this thread back on topic a bit please. I didnt make a thread to discuss whether Canada should be helping other countries in curling or not, but about the likelihood of Homan surpassing Jones.

I just want to make clear though I agree with Canada helping other countries in curling up to now, or ateast almost up to now. Just that this is the point the major help should stop. Allowing internationals to play bonspiels here is fine, and if other countries are offering a bigger salaray to a high profile Canadian coach then fine, but beyond that any help should now be over. The rest of the world has more than developed enough, to the point Canada is having a tough time, especialy on the womens side. Time to let everyone else fend for themselves. The metamorphis has already more than taken place, it is nothing like the scenario in say womens hockey where it hasnt even begun (and might never begin).

That is my last word on that matter, so back to Jones vs Homan please.

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Old Post 03-30-17 03:49AM
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Manitoba Legend
Supreme Champion!

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Hovel of Fame
Posts: 10848

When you wan't someone to stick to the topic?

You call Manitoba Legend. Especially if it has anything to do with Jennifer Jones or Rachel Homan.

Jones still out-pins Rachel 5 golds to 3 in terms of Scotties championships. Plus, she's also got 4 silver & 3 bronze to boot in 14 rides. Obviously Jones started riding at nearly 30 while Homan's 1-1-1 record in 3 worlds all occurred before she hit 28 - so much more rope left for Homan; very little for JJ.

Homan has not yet surpassed Jones because she's yet to win an Olympic trials - until she does that and lambastes a top Olympic field (ie. going 12-0 like a hot knife thru butter) she'll be parked right behind Jen. . . . and obviously Sandra Schmirler who has 3 STOH Gold, 3 World Gold and 1 Olympic Gold in a career stopped too short.

From what I saw in this year's playoffs I wouldn't bet against Homan vs. current Jones or even past-Schmirler. Homan simply plays an over-powering game that utilizes all elements of strategy and shot-smithing. Lisa Weagle has always been one of the top leads in the game; Jo Courtney has ascended to be the top 2nd in the game; and while Emma Miskew may not deliver consistently better percentages than K Lawes or Jan Betker (Schmirler's 3rd) she's the superior big-game hunter.

Homan's air-tight precision speaks for itself. She's rarely off her game - while Jones is a veritable theatre of unpredictability - and Schmirler had lots of bad patches during her STOH rides - although she almost always managed to pull things out in the end.

Give Rachel 1 more STOH, 1 more world title and 2018 Olympic gold - and I'll be the first to elevate her past Jones on the accomplishment chart - and about tied with Sandra.


P.S. If Jones somehow manages to cobble another Olympic gold - next season obviously - I'd have her leap-frogging Sandra as Canada's #1 all-time. REAL TOUGH TASK - her game is not where it used to be and she'll have her hands full just staying in games with Homan, let alone knocking her out. BUT YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU'LL GET WITH JONES - I CERTAINLY DIDN'T EXPECT HER TO LEAVE EVERYONE LAYIN' AT THE LAST OLYMPICS.

__________________
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Last edited by Manitoba Legend on 03-30-17 at 05:19AM

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Old Post 03-30-17 05:16AM
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2142

You entitle yourself as someone who sticks to the topic Legend?

LMFAO. The man who hijacks threads over and over so he can continue his sick obsession with Jennifer Jones? You're no longer annoying. You are actually disturbing.

__________________
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Old Post 03-30-17 07:18AM
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gushuechamp
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 36

quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
You entitle yourself as someone who sticks to the topic Legend?

LMFAO. The man who hijacks threads over and over so he can continue his sick obsession with Jennifer Jones? You're no longer annoying. You are actually disturbing.



I am not familiar with this individual overall yet, but I did enjoy reading his detailed response in this thread. It was a very good overall summary.

I also agree if Jones can somehow win a 2nd Olympic Gold, unlikely for sure, but not unrealistic or impossible either, this totally changes this discussion, and it would be very hard for Homan to ever catch up to Jones overall. Atleast not anytime soon.

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Old Post 03-30-17 07:55AM
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albetts
Drawmaster

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 820

Adam and the Homan Team.

This is such an interesting article that I thought would be enjoyed by the many Homan fans. Its from a twitter posting. Enjoy.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/02/2...yer-of-coaching

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Old Post 03-30-17 09:26AM
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gushuechamp
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 36

Re: Adam and the Homan Team.

quote:
Originally posted by albetts
This is such an interesting article that I thought would be enjoyed by the many Homan fans. Its from a twitter posting. Enjoy.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/02/2...yer-of-coaching



Thanks so much. Very interesting indeed.

I think one thing that is helping Homan is she has reigned in her cockiness a bit. Nothing wrong with lots of confidence, but it got to the point it even got in her way in the heat of battle at times a few years back IMO. I guess that comes with age and maturity.

I still remember when she missed a draw to lose to Jones which was the game that decided 1st place, bye to the finals and last rock at the Olympic Trials and she said something like "it wont happen again in the final." And she was right, since she wasnt even in the final, losing the semis to Sherri Middaugh. I would say at that point she suffered from a bit of overcockiness. She has matured quite a bit since then.

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Old Post 03-30-17 11:33AM
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Deliverer
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 84

Using a hockey analogy, many of you will remember when Wayne

Gretzky joined the Edmonton Oilers in 1979.


The typical hockey fan, ( not unlike a typical curling fan ),

was totally convinced there was no way he would ever come

close to matching Gordie Howe's records. Well, he not only

smashed Howe's records, he smashed them to smithereens.

And today, he is considered to be the greatest hockey player

ever by the most knowledgeable sportwriters, players and

fans.

Homan has a better team now than Schmirler, Colleen Jones

and J. Jones ever did. In addition to superior fitness,

training and coaching, this team has advanced strategic and

technical skills and importantly, a Skip with a takeout

weapon that no former curling champion has ever possessed.


In summary, Rachel Homan will, in due course, become the

Wayne Gretzky of curling. No question. Full stop.

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Old Post 03-30-17 03:06PM
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GregJP
Swing Artist

Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 296

quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
In summary, Rachel Homan will, in due course, become the

Wayne Gretzky of curling. No question. Full stop.



I 100% agree with you.

Can you do me a favour? Can you tell me how old you are and where you grew up?

My whole life I've been saying "period" instead of "full stop" to express certainty and also to describe the dot at the end of a sentence.

In the last few years I've been teaching British English in Europe and I've first come across "full stop" Most sources on the internet say it's a British thing while "period" is a North American thing.

However, in the last few months I've been seeing "full stop" a lot on hockey forums, and now I see it on a curling forum mostly used by Canadians and Americans.

So what is going on? Don't people in Canada still say "period"?

And don't get me started on "no worries" instead of "no problem"

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Old Post 03-30-17 06:20PM
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guido
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 851

All stats aside, Team Homan is the best Canadian womens curling team EVER. Mic drop.

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Old Post 03-30-17 09:47PM
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