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Eau Claire, WI
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Draw: M6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 12:00pm CT
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Fredericton, NB
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Thun, SUI
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Thun, SUI
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Fort Smith, NT
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Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
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Fort Smith, NT
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06-28-13 08:01PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

Proposal for a BC curling tour

The email below was sent out earlier this week from the Curl BC office with my name as the contact person. Not much response so far, so if having a BC Curling Tour is of interest to you, please let me know. See written proposal attached.

Email sent to men's and senior men's playdown teams:

There has been some talk in recent years about having a BC curling tour with the tour champion earning a berth in the BC Men's Championship, as is currently awarded to the top BC team in the CTRS points standings. This is a concept that I think could be beneficial for competitive men's curling in this province and I have written a proposal that is attached for your viewing.

Understandably, the Curl BC Competitions Committee would like to see that a BC curling tour is functioning and viable before offering a team a berth in the BC Men's Championship. However, they are supportive of the tour concept and have appointed Region 4 (North Okanagan) director Brian Schreiner to work with me on the development of the tour.

My goal is to have a tour established for the 2014-15 season. Brian and I are looking for feedback on the proposal I have put together and like-minded individuals, who support the concept of a BC curling tour, to step forward and offer to help out. You can reach me at outturn@email.com or on my cell phone at 778-317-1071.

As some of you may know, I already run the Region 11 Men's Bonspiel Tour in the Lower Mainland, so I'm not completely new at this. I can't make a BC curling tour happen on my own though. We need clubs and competitive curlers to show interest if it's going to happen.

Attachment: proposal for a bc curling tour.pdf
This has been downloaded 325 time(s).

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06-28-13 08:03PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Sorry, thought my name was going to be automatically attached!
The above post is from Richard Brower.

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07-14-13 12:40PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tour Guide
Sorry, thought my name was going to be automatically attached!
The above post is from Richard Brower.



Good luck with that Richard. It's a positive idea.

Paddy

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07-14-13 01:05PM
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I was emailed a copy of Richards proposal (more of an outline really) by a buddy and its good to see some interest from Curl BC.

But I don't see much support unless they offer a provincial berth from the get go. The proposal makes comparisons to Richards Region 11 tour but you cannot paste this idea-for a small, populated area with clubs in close proximity-onto the huge territory that is BC. It simply will not work.

And before Gerry brings up his Ontario tour, this ain't Ontario, its BC.

I would also like to see what was suggested a few years back-that there be championship event at the end of the season for that berth amongst the top teams on the tour.

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07-18-13 08:50PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

I understand the concern over the lack of a provincial berth, but that's the reality we face right now. The tour in Saskatchewan was in existence before they got a berth.

The Region 11 Men's Bonspiel Tour is just like what you suggest though, in that we just took existing events and created a tour championship at the end of the season for the top 16 teams.

The problem for a tour championship for a BC tour is the travel and motel costs for folks. How to we pay for that?

Since posting the original outline in June (it's attached to my first posting) I've had some feedback and now believe standings should be based on money won. Seattle guys want to play too, which is fine except for a BC men's berth.

I'm not sure if there is sufficient interest to make this go. Perhaps the lack of a BC berth is why? Please contact me with feedback!

Richard

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07-18-13 11:57PM
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There won't be sufficient interest unless there is a berth for the tour champion. Why? Because offering a berth for the top CTRS team and then not doing the same for BC teams supporting BC spiels is an inherent double standard.

Why would you enter these spiels and receive nothing for it in the end while you watch wealthy teams go in exclusive expensive events, mostly out of province, and use grandfathered points to get to the finals? Curl BC wouldn't seriously ask us to support and grow local events then give back nothing while we watch Pierce and Cotter chase each other for the CTRS berth.

If we want to regrow competitive participation and depth a BC tour that rewards its champion with more than a title is a great addition to the new playdowns format and a wonderful motivator to stir up interest.

As for the championship event, why not rotate it amongst the various major population centers? And its up to the teams to get there and cover their costs. Hopefully there would be cash prizes as well as the berth. And if some of the top 16 don't go then their spot falls to the next highest ranking team.

And Washington teams can compete, sure, why not? They just can't win the berth.

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07-19-13 01:07PM
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Some thoughts on why it might be better to build a Tour without a Tour berth off the start.

1. With a points chase Tour berth, if a team wins a bunch of events early, then the race is over and events near the deadline wont fill. Will create a Boom/Bust effect and will hurt events at the end that wont know if they're going to fill or not. This has happened in the past in Alberta and has seen events end because of it. All it takes is an event to not run for one year to generally not see it return.

2. With a Tour Championship berth, the interest in this event will depend on where the event is hosted and the extra challenges of BC travel makes this much more difficult. Even provinces like Manitoba and Saskatchewan that offer Tour berths for their Championship winners struggle at times to fill those events and people can drive a reasonable distance to attend their provinces.

All I'm suggesting is that there are some pros to not having a Tour berth off the start, as it would allow more controlled growth of events, vs a boom/bust cycle. Having a berth will definitely create early excitement for event, but there are some pitfalls too.

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07-19-13 08:48PM
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The pitfalls are far outweighed by the benefits of having a tour berth.

The key is having a tour championship event to decide that berth, have that event at the conclusion of the curling season after the Brier and make that berth for the next years provincials.

This negates attendance in events dropping off as teams would continue to stay in the points hunt for final spots in the event through the entire season.

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07-21-13 02:16AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

Would these parameters work?

- Tour championship held sometime after the BC men's championship with the winning team earning a berth in next season's BC men's championship

- Eight teams qualify for a triple knockout (perhaps double?) tour championship based on money earned at tour events

- Tour championship is moved around the province each year to different major centres

- Qualifying teams receive no funding to compete in the tour championship or alternatively some funding generated from all teams paying a fee each time they compete in a BC tour event

Richard

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07-22-13 01:58AM
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An 8 team championship Richard? Too inclusive! If you want more teams to participate then you have more teams in the tour championship. 8 teams makes it look like a closed shop.

16 teams is better, more open and more inviting for teams because they feel they would have a chance.

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07-22-13 02:15PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
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If it were to be 16 teams then it would definitely be a double knockout. I'd run it with two pools of eight teams, both qualifying two teams for the playoffs, as we do with the Region 11 Tour Championship. Otherwise, the event would be too lengthy.

I'm not too sure we could get 16 teams from all over the province to travel to one location for a chance at one berth in the BC men's championship. Would the 16th place team, coming from the East Kootenays as an example, be likely to travel to the Lower Mainland for that? I could see Buchy doing it, but I'm not sure about a team with less experience and ability.

Richard

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07-23-13 02:17PM
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Not sure where you get your draw info Richard, but a 16 team TKO playing 8 end games and qualifying 8 for the finals (or 4) only takes 3 days to run. And that's without two blocks of 8.

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07-23-13 03:45PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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A draw like that would take about 11 draw times on six sheets, which is longer than I would want to run.

Richard

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07-23-13 04:13PM
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quote:
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Not sure where you get your draw info Richard, but a 16 team TKO playing 8 end games and qualifying 8 for the finals (or 4) only takes 3 days to run. And that's without two blocks of 8.


3 days assuming you have it in an 8 sheet rink. Could probably still cram it in with a 6 sheet rink, but them you looking at a lot of games a day for the ice maker and players.

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07-23-13 05:05PM
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quote:
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A draw like that would take about 11 draw times on six sheets, which is longer than I would want to run.

Richard



11 draws? On a 6 sheet club its 6 draws to qualify then 3 draws for the finals. 9 total. And playing 3 games/day when they're 8 ends is a snap. Not taxing on staff or players at all.

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07-25-13 03:35PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
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You're talking about qualifying eight of the 16 teams for the playoffs. The scenario with 16 teams showing up from around the province to compete for one spot, and having half of the teams qualify for the playoffs, just doesn't seem like the most workable one to me.

I'd really prefer eight teams playing a double knockout...something that can be done much more quickly and would be more likely to include the teams that should be there. I also really suspect we'd have a hard time getting all 16 qualifiers to show up if they live a long ways away.

Richard

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07-26-13 12:17AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tour Guide
You're talking about qualifying eight of the 16 teams for the playoffs. The scenario with 16 teams showing up from around the province to compete for one spot, and having half of the teams qualify for the playoffs, just doesn't seem like the most workable one to me.

I'd really prefer eight teams playing a double knockout...something that can be done much more quickly and would be more likely to include the teams that should be there. I also really suspect we'd have a hard time getting all 16 qualifiers to show up if they live a long ways away.

Richard



Yes I am talking about 8 from 16. It's also the same number of draws if you qualify 4 from 16.

But I want you to clarify your comment 'would be more likely to include the teams that should be there'. What exactly do you mean by that?

To encourage more participation in playdowns more teams were added to provincials and a better playdowns format was implanted. From what I've seen in two years-and the jury is still out-weve stopped losing teams and actually saw an overall increase in entries last year.

Why would we not apply the same logic to a BC tour championship? If some teams can't, or won't, make the trip so what? That's their choice, no matter the reason. You have s list of ranked teams, keep going down it until you fill. And if you don't, then run with what you have.

Its not about whether you think a team 'should' be there or not. Its about growing the game. 16 teams is a good starting point and offers more teams the opportunity to develop and get started. I would hope we've learned by now to be more inclusive rather than run a closed shop.

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07-26-13 02:57PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

You obviously feel passionate about this. Email me your name and contact info to outturn@email.com and I'll add you to the list of people willing to help out on the committee.

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07-26-13 08:00PM
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I think for now I'll wait to read your clarification of the comment I asked you about.

I do respect the effort you've made with the region 11 tour and for trying to get a BC tour started. However, your comment is very concerning.

And seeing as you made that comment on a public forum as the defacto head of a BC tour, there should be no reason for you not to clarify your statement.

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07-29-13 01:59AM
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I agree. Richard so answer.

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07-29-13 03:26PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

Folks, in going through this process I can't really give much credibility to anonymous online posts versus those who contact me with their thoughts. If you are reluctant to identify yourselves in this forum, by all means contact me via email or telephone.

Richard

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07-30-13 03:11AM
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Richard, you have made numerous posts acting as a leader for a new BC tour on an open, online forum. This site, and the forum, allows unregistered guests to make posts. Therefore the identity of any poster is irrelevant. Something you cannot claim to be ignorant of.

My question asking you to clarify your statement was neither rude or out of line. Had it been so Gerry could have erased it and banned my IP address from posting. He hasn't. Which means I have posed you a legitimate question.

So if you are knowingly posting as the leader of a BC tour on a public website that you know allows unregistered posts, why are you refusing to respond to a legitimate question?

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08-04-13 01:31PM
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I don't get the difference between identifying yourself with the user name rocklicker69 or Anonymous. Signing up for an account, with a name that may be real, with an email address that may be set up only for the point of posting here does not suddenly make someone credible. I'm sure many people know who many of the user names are, but to say someone isn't credible because they didn't sign up for an account here is asinine. In the time it took you to post saying you wouldn't reply, you could have replied. Good work on judging books by their covers. Hopefully with attitudes like this we can continue to eliminate curling once and for all.

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08-06-13 12:19AM
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Great post. I've been hoping Richard would reply and clarify his comments. But very disappointing to see he's run away. Instead of being someone who's about competition he now comes across as another person who thinks that they should choose those to represent BC.

Shame on you Richard. You won the right to play in Parksville last year based on your ability. You should respect that and ensure a BC tour does the same.

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08-06-13 09:01AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
And before Gerry brings up his Ontario tour, this ain't Ontario, its BC.


You must have majored in Geography at Trinity Western.

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Curling Scores

W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W5 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00am CT
Giroux Final
Schapman (7) Watch Live Curling!
Johnson 10  Final
Scheel (9) Watch Live Curling!
Berg Final
Viau (9) Watch Live Curling!
Pekowitz 11  Final
Berg (7) Watch Live Curling!
M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 12:00pm CT
Church 7th
Rose  Watch Live Curling!
Brenden 6th
Guentzel  Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald 5th
Hebert  Watch Live Curling!
Lannoye 6th
Cenzalli
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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