Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 1120

Looks to me like our favourites are really struggling with this five rock rule. I'm looking forward to curling coverage tomorrow on Sportsnet. I'm thinking that this is a whole new game. After a few times on the ice and viewing other teams it will all probably just fall into place. Hope so.

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

Sorry, its a silly rule to penalize a team for getting a lead on their opponents.

Four rocks is plenty. If you can't generate a deuce with the 4 rock rule, then you're being outplayed and deserve to lose.

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Hunter S. Thompson

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Registered: May 2011
Location:
Posts: 161

You're behind with hammer and you only get one guard? How does that make any sense??

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

How does it make no sense? You get to throw two guards-presuming your lead makes them. Then your opposition gets to try to remove them. Down one, you should at least tie or score two to win. Down two, you have a chance to tie. Down more and you should be happy theres a rule that gives you an excuse to play the last end because you've been outplayed all game and deserve to lose.

But hey, WTF? lets do away with defense and just bring in the 8 rock rule! And, BTW, the MLB just passed a rule that when your team is up one run after the fourth inning, you now have to get six outs before the side is retired, because your team is too good and we have to dumb down the sport for TV.

God, please let the stupidity stop...

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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 324

Thank you, JamCan, I needed a good laugh.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Selkirk
Posts: 140

I am with Jamcan on this one.

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Registered: Nov 2013
Location:
Posts: 6

If your team is too good, it wouldn't have any problems with an additional guard, would it?

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002

Interesting how you use baseball as an example, as they certainly have made changes to rules to increase or decrease offense. The introduction of many rules over time has evolved the game to it's current iteration over more than 100 years.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/rulechng.shtml

The 5-rock rule is done to force teams to continue playing an aggressive style of game, as you can't just get a 2-3 point lead and try to peel your way home. The game has to adapt to the improving skill level of the players and pristine ice conditions, or we'll see the same thing happen that did in the game before the Free Guard Zone came into place.

It becomes too predictable.

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 94

Gerry, while your reasoning is pretty sound, try telling David Murdoch or Mark Dacey that they can't win when down by a pile of points in the final of a major championship with the four rock rule.

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002

quote:

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Originally posted by scorer79
Gerry, while your reasoning is pretty sound, try telling David Murdoch or Mark Dacey that they can't win when down by a pile of points in the final of a major championship with the four rock rule.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Elmira
Posts: 179

And of course it's a lot harder to come back from giving up 3 in the first end when it's only an eight end game.

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location:
Posts: 272

quote:

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Originally posted by jamcan
Sorry, its a silly rule to penalize a team for getting a lead on their opponents.

Four rocks is plenty. If you can't generate a deuce with the 4 rock rule, then you're being outplayed and deserve to lose.

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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 621

Thanks for those stats Gerry.

They do tell a compelling tale.

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Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002

you know the thing is it honestly doesnt matter. with the introduction and perfection of the tick shot it doesnt matter how many rocks are in play. if team A just chooses to tick until they can start hitting than it will just end the same way.

until you figure out how to neutralize the tick shot then teams are going to be able to keep it open when they want/need to

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 153

I think the tick shot is far more of an issue than not having enough corners.

You can completely eliminate the chance of a double peel through throwing perfect corners. You can't really do anything to defend yourself against the tick shot.

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Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002

yep. the introduction of the tick shot really is not that good a thing when you think of it. sure its great for the teams but then it gets over used and things start getting hitty and boring which is the big problem and big complaint for viewers.

the problem is there's really nothing you can do to stop it and teams are doing it so often its really not that hard any more. outside of telling teams they cant play it anymore or can only play it in the final end im not sure what you can do against it

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Registered: Sep 2014
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 100

I think in order to counter the tick shot, curling sheets should have another line parallel to the hog line half way between the top of the house and the hog line. Guards placed between this new line and the hog line cannot be touched until after the fourth rock is shot and guards between this new line and the house can be ticked but cannot be removed until after the fourth rock is shot. This rule would not make the tick shot useless, but would still give teams a chance when trying to steal against a team that has perfected the tick shot. Teams trying to steal would get to chance to play a long guard and then a tight guard around the long guard.

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Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002

my joke solution would be shrink the size of the ice sheets but obviously thats not a serious suggestion

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Southern Manitoba
Posts: 154

For those who do the 'Weagle' (meaning tick), you could have your 2nd try to 'Weagle' on their 1st shot.

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 1

Gerry,

I think the addition of another rock (5 rock rule) is another Band-Aid to this dilemma we face of teams being too good at playing defense.

My brother and I have talked about this for a few years and believe this is a great alternative. You keep the four rock but make these changes.

1. Draw to button to determine last rock. Team that wins this gets the choice to have the hammer in the first end OR have the hammer in the fifth end (start of second half of game). Think of the possibilities... You can forgo hammer in 1st to try to allow yourself last rock in 4 and then you also get it in 5th end! If you take hammer in 1, you better make sure other team does not get last rock in 4..

2. At the completion of regulation time (8th end) if teams are tied why are you giving another team the advantage of last rock?? You just played a complete game and the competitors were tied. One team should not have the total advantage of winning by having last rock. After eight ends you need to determine who gets last rock. I propose you put a rock eight feet from the rings on the centre line and it needs to be tapped into the rings. Closest to the button gets hammer in the extra end.

If you incorporate these two rules into the game I believe the game can stay the way it is but be way more exciting!!

Sincerely,

Bruce and Roger Korte

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Registered: May 2011
Location:
Posts: 161

Aw, too late to give a sassy reply .

I was coming at it from the position of a viewer, not a player, thinking of how to broaden our appeal to different demographics. Curling can be a really boring game to watch with a totally predictable strategy.

A peel might be the highest percentage shot in curling at the WCT level. If you watch (checkout the Curlingzone subscription on YouTube - it's excellent) you'll notice that offensive teams seldom even bother throwing a second corner guard. Why bother? It'll just getting peeled and all you've done is waste time. Every end is draw to top four, corner guard, center guard, freeze to counter ... eventually the offensive team has to break up the pile and the result of the end depends on where the moving rocks come to rest. The game can be much richer than that. "Manufacture a duece" is such a misnomer - that's why the WCT hammer efficiency averages.

Basketball added the 3 point line, soccer softened offsides, hockey got rid of the two line pass violation, football changes contact rules, etc. So yes, talking about bring offense into the game is a good conversation to have.

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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 621

Exploring the Korte idea.

What if after a complete game is tied.

You gave last rock to the team that had the most deuces.

If they are still tied then you give it to the team that had the most steals.

If they are still tied you give it to the team that was trailing going into the final end.

This way you influence the way the entire game is played. I.e. Defending your lead instead of extending your lead risks giving away the hammer in the extra.

Admittedly this too is merely a band-aid. But hey when you're bleeding a band-aid or two can be a real help sometimes:-) (bleeding offense out of the game in this case of course)

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002

quote:

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Originally posted by bbk
2. At the completion of regulation time (8th end) if teams are tied why are you giving another team the advantage of last rock?? You just played a complete game and the competitors were tied. One team should not have the total advantage of winning by having last rock. After eight ends you need to determine who gets last rock. I propose you put a rock eight feet from the rings on the centre line and it needs to be tapped into the rings. Closest to the button gets hammer in the extra end.

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Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812

Have not been able to watch any 5-rock games yet but am glad something is being tried. I attended the Olympic Trials in Regina shortly after the 4-rock rule was adopted and it made for great shots and fantastic viewing. Shot making at the Halifax Trials was similar but it was clear that teams were starting to figure how to minimize the 4-rock rule. Fast forward then to the Olympic Trials last year and things had really changed. It was clear that the shot making had become too good for the 4-rock rule. While their were still some interesting games and some great shot making, watching too many of the games was like watching games back in the take out - take out days before even the 3-rock rule was adopted. Curling is still fun to watch but something needs to be done to keep more games interesting. Watching take out after take out was no fun before the 3-rock rule began and it is still no fun at all.

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Registered: Sep 2014
Location:
Posts: 15

What if it was a three-rock rule, but with no free guard zone (ie. nothing can be removed from play until it expires)? Just brainstorming...

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