Registered: Oct 2011
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Stick Curling Rules

The CCA and WCF both have rules regarding stick curling in their 2014 rules and they are quite different.

The WCF says the stick curler must deliver the stone from the hack and release the stone before their foot reaches the tee line (so the stone is released around the top of the house).

The CCA says that the stick curler can start anywhere from the hack to the hog line as long as the stone is released before the hog line.

Why so different, and which is more fair?

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Registered: Feb 2013
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Posts: 812

I am not a stick curler but have played against several. I think the WCF rule is best by far. I think walking to hog line to release rock gives a real advantage to stick curlers, especially when throwing takeouts.

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Registered: Aug 2014
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Posts: 106

I am pleased with the fact that the stick has allowed older curlers to still enjoy the game and camaraderie.

I hate to see ''younger seniors'' use it just because it gives them an edge, throwing big weight for example.

I also like the WCT rule better. It does not allow a stick curler enough time to readjust again and again their weight and line of delivery, just as for a regular curler coming out of the hack.

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Registered: Sep 2011
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Posts: 1064

As someone who actually uses a stick, there is no *real* advantage to a stick in terms of weight.

Yes, with less training, a curler can use a stick and get hella huge weight. Guess what? A slide delivery can generate enough weight for 99.99% of shots necessary just as easily. And in exchange, the slider has positive control of the rock until release, as opposed to having a loose "grip" at the far end of a lever arm.

There is a shot once every 5 years or so that a club level stick curler only available weight could help with. There are 5 shots in the average game requiring the precise control that the slider has and the stick doesn't. Advantage slider.

As for rules, I honestly don't care which one ends up adopted. Hell, make me deliver with a foot still in the hack, I don't care...the trade off is that I'm less accurate and I can't curl in anything competitive...not even usca "club" play downs. Not worth paying my usca dues to be a second class citizen.

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

I've thrown enough with a stick to at least get a feel for it (for my own interest, not because I need to... even though a few of my teammates might suggest otherwise).

I find it's a bigger advantage for draw way if you follow the CCA rules over the WCF. I actually could get a feel for draw weight a lot more by walking out of the hack up to the hog before release. I don't think it's an advantage over sliding though, but it does make a difference.

Hit weight is about the same in my mind, unless you want to throw a 5 sec rock... then maybe.

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1418

The stick has allowed people to keep curling. Lets let them throw anyway they want, just release before the hogline. That is all.

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Registered: Aug 2014
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Posts: 106

@alanMacneil

Please go read coach Bill last blog. Exactly how I feel.

AS for feeling as a second class citizen because you are using the stick and not allowed in Club play downs, I know how you feel. I wanted to use a trampoline for the high jump event but my athletic association would not let me.

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Registered: Sep 2011
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@itsjustagame I read that blog, and I agree with much of it. There are stick curlers who abuse it, I am sure. I, personally have never *witnessed* one, but I have only seen about 6-8 stick curlers in my club/the bonspiels I've gone to, so I don't pretend to have universal knowledge.

On the other hand, there's folks who don't follow the spirit of the slide delivery rules as well ("utica" style deliveries which use the wrong hack, folks who double clutch on the release, etc).

Doesn't mean that those of us who actually follow the rules and spirit should be punished.

I'm not asking for Olympic playdowns or even "Real" National playdowns...I'm asking for the frickin event which is designed and marketed as a "Celebration of *CLUB* curling", it doesn't lead to anything outside the USA, it isn't on TV, it's just a high level skill competition, which I can't be a part of, even if I wanted to be.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638

I agree that the stick is good for curling but as far as abuse, I know a few that actually run out of the hack to the hog and deliver weights that no slider could throw up to even being dangerous.....and are very accurate with it.

I like the WCF rule but I also know a number of stick curlers that actually use a slider. They claim it gives them better feel for weight. The guy I curled with last Friday uses a stick in this manner and believes all stick throwers should have to wear a slider. I asked about balance and his reply was, "they can carry a broom in the other hand just like a slide curler". Interesting view.

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Registered: Feb 2011
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Posts: 272

Perhaps there needs to be an addition to the Curling Code of Ethics connected to safety.

"I will always consider the safety of the other people on the ice."

This would cover the following situations not covered by the actual rules:

- skips and vices who prioritize sweeping behind the tee line over making sure rocks don't go onto other sheets possibly hurting people.

- people who deliver takeout weight shots that are excessive for the abilities of the people at the other end to manage the fallout.

If there is ever going to be a curling fatality it will be a stick curler throwing quadruple peel at a Senator's age bonspiel treating the people at the far end like bowling pins.

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Registered: Apr 2005
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Posts: 399

quote:

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Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
On the other hand, there's folks who don't follow the spirit of the slide delivery rules as well ("utica" style deliveries which use the wrong hack

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Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:

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Originally posted by casper1014
Stick Curling Rules

The CCA and WCF both have rules regarding stick curling in their 2014 rules and they are quite different.

The WCF says the stick curler must deliver the stone from the hack and release the stone before their foot reaches the tee line (so the stone is released around the top of the house).

The CCA says that the stick curler can start anywhere from the hack to the hog line as long as the stone is released before the hog line.

Why so different, and which is more fair?

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Registered: Sep 2011
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Posts: 1064

quote:

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Originally posted by RockDoc


Whoa, there, Alan. The only thing the curling rules say about the delivery is that if you are right-handed, you must deliver from the left hack, and vice-versa. You can stand on your head to deliver if you like , as long as it is from the correct hack. In the "Utica" knee slide, you must still deliver from the correct hack. What you may have noticed is that knee-sliders use the other foot to push from the hack compared to the no-lift, flat-foot delivery. The push foot is not specified in the rules.

There is nothing illegal, mean-spirited, or unethical about the Utica knee slide. Like stick curling, the knee slide has kept many players active in the game that might otherwise quit due to bad knees or backs.

Cheers.

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Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:

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Originally posted by AlanMacNeill


I don't disagree that that's what you're "supposed" to do...however, I have seen various folks who have abused that rule, on the basis of "I'm pushing with the other foot, it's awkward if I have it in this hack".

If setting up incorrectly with a stick is "a violation of the spirit of curling", then what those folks do is every bit as bad.

Would it get called in an officiated competition? Well...to be honest, as an official, I am powerless to call it unless the opposing skip calls attention to it, so odds are that no, no it won't.

And, to be blunt as hell, it's a STUPID rule anyhow. There is no need for it, it does nothing to make the game balanced or fair or anything.

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Registered: Jan 2014
Location: Kingston, Ont.
Posts: 81

Do "Utica knee sliders" use teflon knee pad on the right knee to slide like that? or is that a stupid question lol. I'm a stick curler but would like to try it. Could someone explain in more depth.

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Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:

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Originally posted by Claire Marie
Do "Utica knee sliders" use teflon knee pad on the right knee to slide like that? or is that a stupid question lol. I'm a stick curler but would like to try it. Could someone explain in more depth.

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Registered: Jan 2014
Location: Kingston, Ont.
Posts: 81

Thanks RockDoc...I'm tempted to try it.

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Stick Chick

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Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:

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Originally posted by Claire Marie
Thanks RockDoc...I'm tempted to try it.

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