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06-26-14 01:54PM
Shin Dimples is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Shin Dimples Click here to Send Shin Dimples a Private Message Find more posts by Shin Dimples Add Shin Dimples to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shin Dimples
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 5

Lack of Ice for Manitoba Curlers

It appears that the first opportunity Manitoba curlers will have to practice is around October 1st. There are tour events that start in September and Manitoba teams won't have a chance to practice prior to these competitions.

What is it that Curl Manitoba is doing to help Manitoba curlers be competitive on the tour? Or is that not part of their job? Certainly they've said there is no money from the CCA this year for ice. But as the game is evolving, more events are opening up and the season is getting longer... other provinces have year-round ice. It is clear that if Manitoba doesn't adapt we will be left behind.

What can we do as curlers to organize practice ice options? If ice rental fees are running $600/day, are the clubs looking to make money off early ice?

Frustrated...

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06-26-14 09:53PM
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derekpap
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Jun 2011
Location: Brandon, MB
Posts: 16

Doesn't Curl MB put in early ice in one of the Clubs in Winnipeg? Or is Oct 1 the day for the day they put it in?

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06-26-14 10:05PM
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Shin Dimples
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 5

Curl Manitoba has put in early ice in the past, but there was apparently no funding from the CCA this year... non-olympic year perhaps?

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07-19-14 01:42AM
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AdamInAlberni
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Mar 2012
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It's quite simple...supply and demand. Plus, you'll never find a board willing to install ice in 25C+ weather for a couple curlers. Also, Folklorama rentals pay really good money.

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08-21-14 03:06PM
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lolar3288
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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638

It's about time clubs figured out that the main duty of these Provincial organizations like MCA and OCA is to collect money and pay their own salaries, not to waste it on the membership!

The only way this will change is if the clubs quit sending the cheques!

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08-21-14 05:03PM
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Itsjustagame
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Registered: Aug 2014
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I don't understand why you think MCA and OCT should be the ones supplying ice in the summer. Do you realize how expensive it can be to have ice at this time? Seems to me that if one curling club out there would feel they could have enough rentals to make a profit rom it, they would! If provincial association were loosing money supplying a few competitive curlers with ice, you would be the first one to be outraged.

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08-21-14 05:33PM
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JustAnotherHack
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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by lolar3288
It's about time clubs figured out that the main duty of these Provincial organizations like MCA and OCA is to collect money and pay their own salaries, not to waste it on the membership!

The only way this will change is if the clubs quit sending the cheques!



Oh Larry, good to see you haven't kicked off over the summer and you're still out and about stirring up your special brand of lunacy.

That aside... for early ice to go in, it has to make sense to the club putting it in. It would be helpful for the provincial curling associations to help but at the same time, it needs to make financial sense to them as well. If they could invest the funds better elsewhere... then so be it.

I'm surprised that no club in Manitoba is willing to put the ice in early. BC clubs have had ice in some locations through out the summer (for summer spiels or curling camps), and quite a few clubs in the Lower Mainland will be open for practice right after Labour Day.

And there are a few clubs in Ontario that have ice in for August or early September (even though I'm not sure about Ottawa this year... Carleton Heights CC used to have August ice, but I think they're not opening until after Labour Day this season).

If you want your local association to help subsidize early ice though, you should raise that point with them. If enough people express interest and push the associations, I think they would be receptive in coming up with a plan to get early ice into certain regions.

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08-21-14 05:46PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 53

quote:
Originally posted by derekpap
Doesn't Curl MB put in early ice in one of the Clubs in Winnipeg? Or is Oct 1 the day for the day they put it in?


They do. Shin Dimples seems a little mis-informed with the actual date that ice will be going in, October 1st is definitely not the earliest. The Granite is hosting a bonspiel starting September 25th and apparently they will have their ice in as early as September 12th.

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08-22-14 10:18AM
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lolar3288
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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638

It would be nice if the Provincial Organizations actually took a little initiative and sponsored some summer ice for things like training. They claim they are not around to help clubs or do any advertising so what are they doing?

I can't say much about MCA financial position but OCA has more money than they know what to do with. Half their so called directed funds hardly spent out a cent.....except of course for the expense budgets.

Anyway, the idea of Provincial Organizations is to step in and run the stuff related to Provincial representation.

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08-23-14 12:32AM
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Gerry
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Again, it's like everything else. If a club wants to put in early ice, it's about putting in some extra work, putting together a business case and making happen. There's several clubs that put in early ice and it's not just the competitive elite players that support it.

In Alberta, both Leduc and the Saville Centre in Edmonton are open in August with Junior camps. Of the clubs I know specifically in Ontario, we have the KW Granite Club in Kitchener-Waterloo and the Oakville Curling Club who put ice in early in August.

The KW Granite Club hosts the Trillium Junior Camps, that began a week ago hosting many great junior curlers from across the province, even drawing players from other provinces. They also host a summer league, where players pay a separate league fee and join. Jim Waite also hosts a high-performance team camp there, open to teams willing to pay for the weekend.

In Oakville, they've gone even further with events, being that they've been open at the beginning of August for several years now. A full summer league (separate from club membership as well), from Monday to Thursday, with 2 draws on some of the nights. They're hosting the Hot Shots Curling Camp in late August, as well as a new Youth Curling Camp that wrapped up last week. We're also hosting a big cashspiel there the weekend after Labour Day, which I hope helps pay some of the summer ice bills too.

If you want to see summer ice in a club in Winnipeg, find a facility who might be open to the idea and work with them to build a schedule of events to make it happen. There's no reason a province like Manitoba couldn't support multiple weeks of Junior camps, and fantasy camp and other uses of the facility.

If you have any questions about how to make it work, I'm sure Ross at the Oakville Curling Club would be happy to tell you about their experiences.

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08-23-14 09:04AM
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lolar3288
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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
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You can put any business case you want together but there as to be a demand for the services if it is going to succeed.

I curl in the Oakville summer curling, more of a spiel than a league. There are maybe three clubs that have some sort of a summer program in the Toronto/Golden Horseshoe area with a population of 5-6 million to draw from depending on where you draw the line yet you can only support a few summer programs. How does a province like Manitoba do it?

I just went through a budget process to set membership dues and we are playing with how to raise a couple of thousand dollars. That doesn't even cover the energy costs for a summer program let alone staffing. Most clubs don't even cover costs with dues they depend on the bar to survive, which is the worst of business plans when your core business can't pay the bills!

These Provincial Organizations receive thousands of dollars from each club plus a bunch of grants from Government yet outside of producing a few playdown schedules and spiel schedules each year what do they actually do? The all have snappy mission statements about things like promoting curling and supporting performance curling but when it comes to actually doing something they are not in the picture.

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08-25-14 12:44AM
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JustAnotherHack
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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
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quote:
Originally posted by lolar3288
You can put any business case you want together but there as to be a demand for the services if it is going to succeed.



Unfortunately, that's the truth for summer ice at any club. And I think most curlers actually don't want to be in the rink during the summer, except for the odd spiel. You might be able to get new curlers in and the like, and a handful of competitive types but I just don't know if that's enough to make it worth it.

However... some combined facilities (i.e., those attached to a hockey rink / rec centre) might have a chance as some of their costs are shared. But it still need to make sense financial for it to work.


quote:
Originally posted by lolar3288
These Provincial Organizations receive thousands of dollars from each club plus a bunch of grants from Government yet outside of producing a few playdown schedules and spiel schedules each year what do they actually do? The all have snappy mission statements about things like promoting curling and supporting performance curling but when it comes to actually doing something they are not in the picture.



Really? Do you really want to go this way? I'm not saying the associations are perfect (OCA in particular has irritated me in the past), but if you think that's all the associations do... well, I'm not believing what's coming out of your mouth. Prove to me that they rake in all this money and do nothing. You just spout off your opinions and try to convince your fellow curlers that because they are YOUR opinion, they must be facts.

That might work for politicians, but that doesn't work for me.

But to address a point here... the associations also have to determine if it makes sense to them to subsidize summer ice in a club. Would there be a demand for it? How much would it cost? Would that money be better spent with better returns on dry-land training for high performance, education, clinics/camps, or something else? And once they figure those points out... then they need to come up with a way to find a club that's fair (if more than one club is interested) or find a club that's even willing to do it.

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Last edited by JustAnotherHack on 08-25-14 at 12:46AM

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08-26-14 12:51AM
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MASHKA
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2014
Location:
Posts: 12

Yea i agree with the demand thing. I curl competitively in Manitoba (on a pretty heavy schedule) and although its nice to know the ice is there i have never had much interest in using it until i am two weeks away from my first bonspiel. If this is my outlook on it i can't imagine what would make a club curler want to use this early/ summer ice.

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08-26-14 10:23AM
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lolar3288
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638

Most curlers have no idea of the finances of the Provincial organizations or what they do with the money.

I don't want to hijack this thread so all I will say is get the COMPLETE, AUDITED, financial report of the province you live in, as presented at the AGM, for the last three years and read it through (not just the summary) as I have with the OCA (actually I went back more than three years). Has a member they are legally required to give it to you. Then let's see if you still defend them.

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09-02-14 03:05PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Jun 2011
Location: Brandon, MB
Posts: 16

Found this on Curl MB's site today:

Tuesday Sep 02 2014
CurlManitoba will be renting ice time slots between the dates of Friday, September 12th and Thursday, September 24th at the Granite Curling Club. The ice rental rate is $52.50/hour/sheet including GST for the first hour and $26.25/sheet for each additional back-to-back hour. Please see below the schedule of available times and dates.

ALL ice MUST be booked through CurlManitoba by contacting Connie at claliberte@curlmanitoba.org or telephone at 204-981-7217 (cell). Payment can be made by Visa, Mastercard, cash or cheque made payable to CurlManitoba and must be received prior to ice usage. Once payment has been received, confirmation will be sent via return email. Visa or Mastercard payments can be made at CurlManitoba's office at 145 Pacific Avenue. A cancellation fee of $30.00 will be charged for any cancellations less than 48 hours of the reserved ice rental period.

For further information, please contact Connie by email at claliberte@curlmanitoba.org or telephone at 204-981-7217. Looking forward to seeing you at the Granite Curling Club and wishing you the best in this coming curling season!

SCHEDULE OF AVAILABLE TRAINING ICE

Friday, September 12th
5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.
6:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
7:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

Saturday, September 13th
9:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m.
10:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.
11:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.
1:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m.
3:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m.

Sunday, September 14th
9:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m.
10:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.
11:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.
1:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m.
3:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m.

Monday, September 15th
5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.
6:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
7:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

Tuesday, September 16th
5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.
6:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
7:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

Wednesday, September 17th
5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.
6:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
7:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

Thursday, September 18th
5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.
6:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
7:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

Friday, September 19th
5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.
6:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
7:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

Saturday, September 20th
9:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m.
10:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.
11:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.
1:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m.
3:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m.

Sunday, September 21st
9:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m.
10:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.
11:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.
1:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m.
3:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m.

Monday, September 22nd
5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.
6:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
7:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

Tuesday, September 23rd
5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.
6:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
7:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

Wednesday, September 24th
5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.
6:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
7:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

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