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04-13-16 09:57AM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
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Players Championship Brushing Rules Thread

So as to not hijack the Players Championship, thought I would start a separate thread before anyone talked of it there. Here are their sweeping rules. Comment as you wish:

New for 2016: New brushing rules apply for this event. Each team will be using three brushing devices in the game as outlined below:

Brushing device No. 1: “Right Brush” — MUST be used by the brusher on the right side of the player delivering the stone, regardless of who is the brusher.

Brushing device No. 2: “Left Brush” — MUST be used by the brusher on the left side of the player delivering the stone, regardless of who is the brusher.

Brushing device No. 3: “Skip or Vice Skip Brush” — The skip and vice skip MUST begin the event with a “used brush head” to be approved by the head official at the pre-event practice. They must continue with the same head for the entire event.

Brushing rules:
1) Brushers cannot be on the same side or brush from the same side at any time.
2) Brushers cannot cross-over to the other side at any time.
3) Players must use the same brush heads in pre-game practice that they will use in the game.
4) The skip or vice skip can brush from inside the hog line only.
5) To allow for accurate management and to facilitate the above rules, we ask all teams to ensure that they have red brush heads available for the entire event to be used on the red rock side of the sheet. A different colour such as blue, yellow, orange, or black may be used on the yellow side of the sheet. The brush to be used in the house must be a different colour than the other brushes that are used.

Penalty for breach of the brushing rules: The consequence for breaking any of the rules regarding brushing will be the same as the consequence for touching a moving stone inside the hog line (i.e. non-offending team has the option to remove the stone in question and replace all stones that were displaced after the infraction to their original positions; or leave all stones where they came to rest; or place all stones where they reasonably consider the stones would have come to rest had the infraction not occurred.

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04-13-16 12:14PM
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Itsjustagame
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Well, that's a good start!

Personally, I would have preferred one broom per player and no switching of brooms permitted than this color scheme. I would have also liked to see a rule of some kind preventing snow plowing/sweeping from behind the rock, may it be brushing angle, body positioning relative to the stone or whatever.

To put the game back in the thrower's hand more, I'd wish that stopwatches would go away. What to they add to the game that judgement and athleticism cannot? In fact, I think they are detrimental to the game by making average sweepers better than what they are. Let the best be the best.

Then, the scary part. Leaving the WCF regulate on brooms / fabric / inserts.

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04-13-16 02:35PM
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curlky
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For me, a few things that I would rather see a different way if this were a long term rule for all events including club curling, and not just for one pro level event with officials.

1.) I do not like the "Used" brush for skips. What does that mean exactly. Used for 1 brush sweep, shows some signs of dirt, been used by a lead for 2 games before, etc. This criteria is silly. I understand the intent is to prevent a skip from having a sharp fabric to be able to really carve the ice and bury a rock. Seems as though another rule might be better, such as the skip can only sweep inside the rock (which would be the side the make it go straighter for anyone who is not sure)

2.) At the club level, there are times where as a skip I jump out to help get a rock over the hog. This bans that which I think is unfortunate, but not that big of deal. I would add a caveat that if a skip sweeps before the hog line, they must stop as soon as the rock crosses the hog line, but this is a minor issue, and I wont argue one way or another outside of stating my personal opinion right now.

3.) I don't like a single right side broom and a left side broom. This forces sharing of brooms. I would rather just use my broom all the time. My counter proposal would be this: Sweeping positions shall be fixed, in the same way as who stand in the house as skip and vice are fixed. However, you can have a different location for a different thrower. So this would be how a lineup could work

Lead Throws - Second on rt, Vice on left
Second Throws - Vice on rt, Lead on left
Vice throws - Lead on rt, Second on left
Skip throws - Lead on rt, Second on left

So you can be on a different side throughout an end, but for a certain thrower, you will always be on the same side. So to me, My broom will always be with me, no matter where I am, and I will always have to be on a certain side for a certain sweeper (team sets before game starts).

I like how there are no subjective rules set in place. Or shall I say rules that require a real time observation that is not practical. By this I mean I like how there is no rule that states the sweeping angle must be between 75 and 90 degrees, as I think this is not practical to enforce accurately in real time. I like how they don't talk about standing behind the rock, because that is easy to overcome with a closed stance versus an open stance. I like how they don't try to set sweeping from side to side, because as with the angle thing I just mentioned, this is a difficult thing to observe in real time.

I know that many people feel that angle and side to side are not subjective. But unless they are blatant violations, it is truly hard to see real time. What everyone should fear would be for a rule that might cause controversy on the ice. An extreme example might be last rock of a game, and the hammer is thrown, and makes an incredible draw (the type that is executed 1 in 10 times) to win teh game. However, the opposing skip in the house looks at the sweeper, and think that the sweeper had 1 stroke that was not completely side to side, and calls a violation after the shot was done. An argument ensues on ice. Non-Hammer team skip swears he saw it, but Hammer team sweepers swear they did not have an illegal sweep. With these types of rules, either the non-hammer team gets to assume what would have happened and place rocks, or shot gets rethrown. Either way it is an ugly situation that I am glad these rules dont try to prevent.

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04-13-16 03:01PM
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buggeroff17
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Why do they always have to make complicated solutions for simple problems? Here is my rule:

- No Switching of brooms. Each player gets one broom to sweep with for the entire game.
- The powers that be can determine which broom heads are acceptable.
- you can't switch sides during a shot.


This should work for all curlers (club and competitive) and is simple.

We wouldn't have all this nonsense like, switching brooms during a shot, throwing brooms down the ice, saving a broom for important shots and IT IS HOW CURLING HAS BEEN PLAYED ALMOST FOREVER!

Club curlers will continue to play this way regardless. Let the competitive players switch sides, have skips sweep early or whatever. Does anyone care?

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04-13-16 03:14PM
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HotRocks
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somebody cares

All this whole mess is.. that the new..advanced materials were
scratching the ice too deeply.....

Rick Lang and others more in the know .. seem to feel this issue is going to finally be resolved after the September summit

We really need to end this dancing brooms ..destruction of Curling

This Fiasco basically spoiled a large part of this season and some of the incredible Top curling that occured

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04-13-16 03:18PM
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buggeroff17
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I care too (poor choice of words)

Actually, I do care about there being a proper rule. I agree with you. I just think it should be simple.

Advanced materials that scratch the ice too much (everybroom does somewhat) and dancing brooms are ruining the game. I came up with a simple rule to get rid of those 2 things.

We are never going to get rid of directional sweeping and I think that is fine. In fact I like it. I would just like it to affect the rocks a little less.

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04-13-16 04:44PM
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RockDoc
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Anything that ends the incessant broom-swapping is fine by me. The right-left thing is annoying--one broom per player seems like it would be the easiest to comply with, but whatever. The one broom per side prevents side-swapping to get the sharp broom on a preferred side. So now both your brushes need be good at dragging as well as carving, which are perhaps in opposition with one another. Rules about how often you can change a brush head, in concert with hobbling fabrics and their backing materials, may be sufficient to return a sense of normalcy. Let's hope so.

Cheers.

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04-14-16 11:02AM
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lolar3288
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Firstly, instead of trying to ban brooms change tactics and have CCA approve brooms. If it is not approved you can't use it until it is.

No modification of an approved broom is allowed.

Sweepers must be in front of the traveling rock and can only sweep across direction of travel (no plowing). One sweeper on each side. If the skip comes out to sweep one sweeper must drop off.

Each team has a fixed number of new pads (or complete brooms)per event depending on the number of games. Use them where and when they wish. [(For a three game spiel it should be one broom each. I would suggest something like 10 brooms for a Brier event, less for shorter events)].

Simple and easy to police.

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04-14-16 11:38AM
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buggeroff17
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They would be able to police that in a high level event, but the rule must be simple enough to be policed by the teams playing. At many club events, district playdowns, u21 and u18 events which will end up stuck with this rule, you are lucky to have one volunteer/official running the event. There is no way they can police how many brooms a team has used. That's why I suggest no switching of brooms among players and 1 broom per person. It becomes self policing that way.

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04-16-16 03:38PM
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jamcan
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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
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When I first read this link I shook my head in disbelief.

I'm still shaking it...seriously people?

__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson

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04-16-16 08:19PM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
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quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
When I first read this link I shook my head in disbelief.

I'm still shaking it...seriously people?



Whats wrong with this thread jamcam? The event had a new set of brushing rules, and I though it was interesting to hear peoples thoughts on this specific rules idea. Plus this kept brushing topic out of the main players championship thread.

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04-16-16 08:44PM
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jamcan
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Location: vernon bc
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Nothing wrong with the thread (that's why I referenced the link) Curlky, it's the rule I'm commenting on.

__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson

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04-17-16 11:14AM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
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quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
Nothing wrong with the thread (that's why I referenced the link) Curlky, it's the rule I'm commenting on.


You comment was shaking your head. Is this shaking head to head in agreement, or side to side in dismay.

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04-17-16 04:54PM
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dugless_zone 13
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Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990

quote:
Originally posted by curlky


You comment was shaking your head. Is this shaking head to head in agreement, or side to side in dismay.



the agreement part would be nodding...I think.

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