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05-18-18 10:30PM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
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Huge Shakeups to US HPP

Lots of changes on both the Mens and Womens side. I think the most surprising is with Team Sinclair. Every sponsored team will change except Roth

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Curling...-athletes-named

Last edited by curlky on 05-18-18 at 10:33PM

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05-19-18 09:36AM
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TNH
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Thanks for posting this link!

Very pleased to see Dropkin get his team of friends back together again. Hope they do really well as the build towards the 2022 Olympics.

I'd like to see a bit of personal touch added to this by US Curling for the curlers moving on from the program. I enjoyed watching Heater's teams compete and am going to miss him. HPP can't say it, but I will - thanks Heath and all the best! See you on the ice.

Isn't it strange that the mixed doubles sponsorships are not mixed? Where are the women?? Is US Curling that insensitive to #MeToo? They should have waited until they could award female sports or made a "watch this space" statement.

Can't imagine why HPP would break up Sinclair, the best women's team. If the whole premise of HPP is to engineer a winning team, then they had that with US' first slam winner. And here they go moving Vicki P out and giving them the Andersons and a 5th to find playing time for. They must have their reasons. Is there a regional bias going on again? Outside of Alex C, all of the girls moving around are from the east or west coasts - Roth's team, which doesn't win, are all from Minn/Wis and is the only team held together.

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05-19-18 09:52AM
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misty1
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really happy to see korey skipping again too. and with his junior team he won silver with. hopefully they'll be left alone to grow for a while

im stunned they are messing with sinclair's team. frankly i dont get it. given how she did late last year im not understanding the changes

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05-19-18 10:47AM
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curlky
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I agree that Roths team is not shown huge on the world stage, but they are the defending US champion.

Hard to know the ins and outs of Persinger leaving Sinclair without being on the inside of the teams and/or the HPP.

I think that Sara is probably a better curler than Persinger long term, and I think that Persinger will be a good steadying force on Corey's team. She might even bump up to VIce, which perhaps she would prefer.

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05-19-18 10:59AM
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Why are you just assuming that the changes are all HPP’s idea and that the players involved didn’t have any requests themselves?

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05-19-18 06:36PM
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TNH
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I don't assume that at all.

When I said "they must have their reasons" it was to allow for personal presences or maybe stats that I don't see. I have no direct knowledge of chemistry issues so it would be unfair to even suggest that.

If something like that is what you're implying, then maybe just say that?

FWIW, Cory C is awesome and Sarah A much less so. If they needed to switch Vicki, the team would be stronger with Cory vicing and Alex throwing 2nd. But HPP is closer to the girls than I am.

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05-19-18 07:18PM
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I didn’t mean to imply anything. My initial read of your post, TNH, had me thinking that you were implying that HPP had dictated this, but upon second reading I think I was reading things between your lines that weren’t there. Sorry about that.

I’ve seen a lot of almost reflexive criticism of the HPP here over time, and I erroneously thought I was seeing more of that, when really it’s more neutral.

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05-19-18 10:07PM
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TNH
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Got it - thanks. Have a nice weekend.

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05-21-18 09:03AM
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AlanMacNeill
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I'm assuming that since mixed doubles is still so new competitively (in the US at least), that the HPP still isn't sure if the best strategy is "Make great Mixed Doubles curlers" or if it's "Make great curlers, find two of them to play Mixed Doubles". It is weird that they've put men in the pool but not women.

Interesting team selections as the ramp to 2022 begins. This coming World's Cycle is the first one with Olympic Qualifying points, IIRC...so there is something on the line. The 5th/6th place Ruhonen/Persinger got in Vegas is a good first sign, but there will be some pressure to make sure USA Curling doesn't go from gold to DNQ...it's not likely to happen...but until it's clinched, it isn't clinched.

It feels almost as though the HPP folks are learning their lessons...these teams feel organically selected...that's a good sign. Now if they can just understand that they don't need to also put their thumb on the scales in determining who goes on to represent the US.

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05-21-18 11:17AM
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curlky
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If you re-read the HPP announcement, the extra men (Derrick, Kroy & Sean) are not there just for mixed doubles, they will be there for some men's events as well.

I think the HPP wanted to fund 12 men, but had 15 they liked. I think the other 3 are spares in case things don't go right on some of the teams, and then they are Mixed doubles players as well.

I doubt they had extra women, because there were probably not extra women that they felt were left out and deserved funding.

MY prediction is that they Dropkin rink will be given somewhat of a short leash, and I can see that team adding someone like Kroy into that team to help progress. I could also see the Persinger Rink getting old, and needing some tweaking to move forward. Plus, I'm not completely sold that Tyler George is 100% retired for the entire next cycle. I could easily see him take 1 or 2 years off, and then get back into it. At that point, he either regains his old spot, or he takes some of the extras to get back into it.

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05-21-18 11:57AM
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southerncurler
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Alan, this coming season is not an Olympic qualifying season so it’s a freebie for all nations. The ramp up starts with 2020 worlds.

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05-21-18 12:43PM
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AlanMacNeill
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Okay, cool, so then there's another season to tinker and experiment and let some folks who may be outside of the inner circle have a shot and see what sticks.

Admittedly, given that 4/5 of Team Shuster has signed up for a run to 2022, it likely means all of these teams are longshots to dethrone the sitting King...but that's why you play the games, and it'll be very interesting to see how success sits with Team Shuster.

I must say, our club hosted him for a meet and greet and Q&A session last month, and he seemed to be loose and relaxed as though about 47,903.2 tons of weight had come off his shoulders...so I rather expect some loose and excellent play from them over the next quadrennial.

It's a golden season, let's see what comes of it.

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05-21-18 02:59PM
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curlky
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To expand on southerncurler, for anyone who reads this and is curious, here is National Olympic Qualification

Lets Assume Year 0 is the year on an Olympics

Year 0 World Championship means not a lot as most nations best team played the Olympics and will bypass the Worlds.

Year 1 World Championship does nto mean a whole lot, everyone is working out your quadrineal kinks for the next cycle

Year 2 & 3 World Championship are huge. 8 Teams are guaranteed spots at the Olympics. 1 team is the host nation. Then you have 7 other teams that qualify directly from Worlds. The WCF assigns points on how teams finish at worlds as this "14 – 12 – 10 – 9 – 8 – 7 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 – 1". After Year 3 Worlds, they add up each nations points. The Top 7 qualify directly to the Olympics. The rest of the teams have to play a play-in tournament for the remaining 2 Olympic Spots.
Sorry to get off of topic.

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05-22-18 09:01PM
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Isn’t the Olympic field enlarging for 2022? Something like 15 or 16 countries, I thought, with the format changing from round robin to triple elimination.

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05-23-18 10:35AM
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curlky
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Observer, if true, I have not seen that. I knew they weer supposed to expand the filed for worlds, but I thought that would still be a RR not a tripleKO. I would hate to see a major event go to TripleKO, since luck of the draw would play a huge part in the outcome.

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05-23-18 06:09PM
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Observer
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I know I heard that that change is coming sometime during the Olympic TV coverage. The only thing I’m fuzzy on now is the exact number of countries.

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05-24-18 10:23AM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
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There are changes coming to worlds. Any chance you are confusing the 2? Or did you hear specific to Olympic changes?

AS far as the new World format goes, here is the run down. Rather than 12 teams making worlds, there will now be 13, with Pacific-Asia region getting an extra birth. Furthermore, 6 teams will qualify for the playoffs rather than 4, with #1 and #2 getting byes into the semis (This change actually went into place for the worlds that just ended)

So now you have this for worlds in a 13 team format

2 - Americas*
8 - Europe*
2 - Pacific/Asia*
2 - From Qualification Event

*= Zone with Last Place finish at previous WCC loses one guaranteed spot

Also with the new 13 team format, there will be no more on-ice tiebreaker games to make the schedule work.

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05-24-18 06:38PM
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Observer
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curlky,
I heard the format change being discussed between two of the NBC TV broadcasters during one of the Olympic matches. It was definitely in reference to the Olympics, not Worlds.

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05-29-18 11:33AM
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AlanMacNeill
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I'd believe it for Mixed Doubles, perhaps, but I don't see the IOC approving 60 extra athlete spots (5 per team, 6 teams per gender) for the Quads game.

It would make more sense for Mixed, since that version is intended to be the "Non Power nations learning to curl at the International Level" version, and it would only require 16 more athletes, some of which might be able to be pulled from Quads teams (ala the Hamilton's from the US in 2018).

Maybe that's where you heard it?

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06-05-18 12:58AM
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The HPP extras picked up Alex Leichter and formed there own team.

Team Nernberger

Skip - Kroy Nernberger
Vice - Sean Beighton
Second - Alex Leichter
Lead - Derrick McLean

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06-15-18 11:53AM
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curlky
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And now it seems there is a huge coaching shakeup as well.

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Curling...tor-of-Coaching


I am not sure how many coaches USA curling actually had, but now they are losing 4 of their HPP coaches (Drobnick, Al Hackner, Scott Baird and Jake Higgs) as well as their trainer

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06-15-18 01:25PM
AlanMacNeill is offline Click Here to See the Profile for AlanMacNeill Click here to Send AlanMacNeill a Private Message Find more posts by AlanMacNeill Add AlanMacNeill to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
AlanMacNeill
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Turnover after a major checkpoint among staff is not at all unusual, even among successful leadership.

Folks will seek to move on to other opportunities to leverage their success. Other folks will see that they've "climbed the mountain" and are not desiring the grind again.

I wish them all well, and hope they turn things over to whatever replacements come in in good shape and ready to go for the next quadrennial.

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