Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990

quote:

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Originally posted by Deucey


Why are you guys arguing over something that's never going to happen?

Also Team Canada wasn't added just for marketing purposes. It's a way to get one more good team in the event.

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Last edited by dugless_zone 13 on 02-19-15 at 05:29PM

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Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 51

Just wondering why team Canada cant get demoted to relegation if they finished last ? Is there a law against the team wearing the maple leaf coming a couple of days early to participate in relegation round. I dont see an issue with that at all.

Lets not get too worked up about it. Its only going to be a 3-4 year fad. We'll all be back in before long.

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 839

One thing that likely has to change is moving the pre-qualification. It would benefit all if a playdown occurred well before the event so that fans can make travel arrangements and teams will actually feel like they belong (listen later to our upcoming Around The House podcast for some interesting reveal about the Scotties opening banquet).

They don't run the pre-trials the week heading into the Trials, right? The issue with pre-Trials and pre-Scotties would be too few teams, lack of interest, etc, but would that outweigh some of the issues we have now?

Now that we've altered these events, perhaps we could start looking even more dramatically at possible changes.

Rather than provincial playdowns (and let's be honest, some provinces have actual playdowns others involve sending in two cereal box tops for an entry), maybe there could be reagional qualifying with several teams from each province, based on numbers of curlers and/or clubs. A West Regional (BC, AB, SK, MB), Northern regional (NWT, Y, Nunavut), East (ON, QC) and Maritime (NB, PEI, NF, NS).

With a (ugh, why oh why) Team Canada, that makes for 10 spots from these 4 regions. 1 from the North, 2 from Maritimes, 4 from West, 3 from East.

Or, you could dump team Canada and just give a spot to the team with most CTRS points.

I'm not saying I like the idea, but I suppose I'm open to anything. Of course, let's say Team Canada is from MB, and this resulted in 3 MB, 2 AB, 3 ON and 2 NS teams and 1 NWT team, would everyone else watch? Would anyone show up to cheer? What would happen to the NO moose call?

Nah. On second thought, let;s just go back to the way it was. Please?

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 839

quote:

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Originally posted by Donr


2004 Mark Dacey

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 839

quote:

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Originally posted by doogie41
First time poster here.

Quick question about relegation/pre-qualification. Does anyone know what happens if all 3 teams finish the round robin at 1-1?

The top 2 go to the final so would they advance based on cumulative draw to the button totals?

Thanks for you help!

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990

i think then the two teams to play the final game would be chosen based on the cumulative totals of their draws to the button.

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 210

quote:

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Originally posted by Island Roger
Just wondering why team Canada cant get demoted to relegation if they finished last ? Is there a law against the team wearing the maple leaf coming a couple of days early to participate in relegation round. I dont see an issue with that at all.

Lets not get too worked up about it. Its only going to be a 3-4 year fad. We'll all be back in before long.

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Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 631

quote:

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Originally posted by milobloom
One thing that likely has to change is moving the pre-qualification. It would benefit all if a playdown occurred well before the event so that fans can make travel arrangements and teams will actually feel like they belong (listen later to our upcoming Around The House podcast for some interesting reveal about the Scotties opening banquet).

They don't run the pre-trials the week heading into the Trials, right? The issue with pre-Trials and pre-Scotties would be too few teams, lack of interest, etc, but would that outweigh some of the issues we have now?

Now that we've altered these events, perhaps we could start looking even more dramatically at possible changes.

Rather than provincial playdowns (and let's be honest, some provinces have actual playdowns others involve sending in two cereal box tops for an entry), maybe there could be reagional qualifying with several teams from each province, based on numbers of curlers and/or clubs. A West Regional (BC, AB, SK, MB), Northern regional (NWT, Y, Nunavut), East (ON, QC) and Maritime (NB, PEI, NF, NS).

With a (ugh, why oh why) Team Canada, that makes for 10 spots from these 4 regions. 1 from the North, 2 from Maritimes, 4 from West, 3 from East.

Or, you could dump team Canada and just give a spot to the team with most CTRS points.

I'm not saying I like the idea, but I suppose I'm open to anything. Of course, let's say Team Canada is from MB, and this resulted in 3 MB, 2 AB, 3 ON and 2 NS teams and 1 NWT team, would everyone else watch? Would anyone show up to cheer? What would happen to the NO moose call?

Nah. On second thought, let;s just go back to the way it was. Please?

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Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 51

quote:

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Originally posted by mcgregorm89


I know I should stop arguing this as it will never happen but I cant help myself. Team Canada is the champion, that's the point of having it. So if a team Canada was in the position to be relegated that team would be able to play their provincial playdowns and be right back in the main competition next year. The team that becomes team Canada and possible world champion would have to be in a relegation round, how does that make any sense while the team that put them there could be in the main event and the champions relegated.

Lets all just agree that relegation and team Canada should be removed and have a 14 team event.

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Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002

quote:

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Originally posted by Island Roger


Sorry .... i just cant agree. If TC stinks out the joint and finishes last then the winning team (New Team Canada) has to assume the record of the team Canada from the year before. That team that finished last will play in their own playdowns the next year becasue they are no longer team Canada. This is the same rules for all the other teams in the event. Why should this entry be any different. Its not rocket science.

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 612

Milo,
I had a similar thought to you that we could move to more of a regional qualification. It would certainly promote getting the best teams into the event. But the problem is people don't want another slam like event to crown a national champ. The Brier and Scotties remain special because people can rally behind their province. Even non-curlers watch these events and can get behind their "home-town" team. I think the system you suggested would be great, but it throws away too much history and would lose the fan base.

People saying we need a 14 team event are just way off base. These events are already watered down by too many small regions sending a "champ". One Territory can't even find a team to send. Other territories and smaller provinces have less than 10 teams in the entire province competing to go. Compare that to AB, Man, ON and you often have 100+ teams competing to go. Heck when I started in Men's playdowns the City of Calgary championship was 60 teams. My point is the Territories should get 1 and only 1 team. Yes there will be travel involved, but that's just part of living in a sparsly populated region. The Maritimes should also only get 2 teams. Or at least make PEI join NS or NB. Why does Northern Ontario get it's own team? I don't know, but at least they have the population base in Ontario to support another team. Of course I know this plan would be less well received than relegation, but what else do you do? There's really no way to satisfy the demand for one province / territory = 1 rep and keep the event competetive and keep the TV sponsors happy (yes you do need them to make the event go).

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Selkirk
Posts: 140

quote:

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Originally posted by misty1


its not rocket science to understand why they wont be relegated either but its clearly worthless trying to get through to you.

team canada changes hands if the defending champ cant defend their title. by winning the scotties the winner earns the right to come back and try to defend their title. now what about that are you not able get.

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Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002

quote:

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Originally posted by Donr


Misty you seem very sure that you know how it would work but do you? In the unlikely case that the existing Team Canada and i think it would be so unlikely as to never happen but you must know about never say never.

So if the unlikely happens as i read the relegation criteria it is the last place team from the Scotties that falls into relegation with the the others. Would it make any sense to you to that the new Team Canada must then go into relegation as that is where there their spot is. ? Please enlighten me as to why is is not the case.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Selkirk
Posts: 140

quote:

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Originally posted by misty1


what im bout to say makes sense in my head , im not sure if it will here so bare with me.

you have to think of it that a team canada is declared in the same year as the old team canada loses its title. so the new team canada gets entry based off what their win loss record was not what the old team canadas win loss record was.it doesnt matter if a defending champion canada bombs out because the new team canada gains entry based off their record. so it really doesnt matter how a team canada does because , in creating a new team canada in the same year its wiped clean.

hence team canada wont be relegated

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 210

quote:

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Originally posted by misty1


what im bout to say makes sense in my head , im not sure if it will here so bare with me.

you have to think of it that a team canada is declared in the same year as the old team canada loses its title. so the new team canada gets entry based off what their win loss record was not what the old team canadas win loss record was.it doesnt matter if a defending champion canada bombs out because the new team canada gains entry based off their record. so it really doesnt matter how a team canada does because , in creating a new team canada in the same year its wiped clean.

hence team canada wont be relegated

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Registered: Sep 2011
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quote:

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Originally posted by Donr


Would it be fair to say "that using that reasoning that if a new team represents a province that relegation would not apply to them?"

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 48

quote:

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Originally posted by peteski


I think the biggest problem with this year's pre-qualification was having it run just before and even during the event. It took away the fun vibes at the start and generally seemed like the cruelest way to eliminate the extra teams. As long as it stays that way, it will be received very negatively.

I don't mind a pre-qualifier that is set up a couple weeks in advance, because the teams in question can treat it as a part of playdowns. The tough part about this is all the travel, although the territories have been dealing with that problem for a long time anyway.

Then again, if they want to have a 13 or 14 or 15 team round robin, I'm fine with that too.

What's your beef with team Canada? To me, it's worked well in the Scotties and is a good way to add another quality team to the field without significantly altering the provincial format that makes these events special. Certainly seems better than a regional format, no?

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Registered: Dec 2014
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Posts: 56

Regardless of what you all think yay or nay regarding this issue of team Canada and relegation...the CCA has already stated that the host province AND team Canada will not be in relegation regardless of the prior years results.

So, like it or not, it is feasible that the 10th place finisher could be in the pre-qualification round if next years host prov/terr and team canada finish 11 and 12.

End of story.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068

I mentioned this previously in this thread but it still feels problematic to me.

Shouldn't Kolton and Galusha have to play Knezevic, rather than Kelly Scott? (or whomever takes BC next year)? I think they should be invited to the end of the week. Warm up on the last few days (there is lots of ice available) and have the relegation round beginning Friday of the END of the week. The ice is still in. There are lots of sheets. Fans to watch. People travelling for relegation viewing will get to see the finals too. And the previous years' relegated teams should get a stab at the stumbling target, not the freshly crowned.

Knezevic has a chance to redeem herself in the Here and Now. One faint hope.

just sayin..

__________________
Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: BC
Posts: 156

Some interesting information.

Since the inception of Team Canada at the Scotties in 1986, Team Canada has missed the playoffs 9 times. 31% of the time Team Canada misses the playoffs. Team Canada has finished 9th once, and 8th twice. They have never been in position to be relegated under the current setup. That's not to say they couldn't, as they have been only 1 loss away from being being in the relegation spot.

Twice, the home province of Team Canada has finished in the relegation spot. With relegation this means you could win the Scotties, go back to the Scotties as Team Canada, lose the final, and the following year need to win your home province and go through relegation. 1 year removed as Team Canada and have to go through relegation.

And finally, where is the proof that having Team Canada gets better teams to the Scotties. Only once has the Team Canada home province won the Scotties.

Team Canada sounds really good for the Scotties and the Brier when you have multiple top teams in 1 province. When you had Koe, Martin, and Ferby all battling to make it out of Alberta. 3 teams that would likely all make the playoffs and be favorites. But how many provinces in men's or woman's actually have 2 teams capable of winning the Brier or Scotties. If Gushue wins the Brier this year is there going to be great excitement about having the second best team from NFL at the Brier.

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Registered: Mar 2014
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Posts: 51

This can happen folks. We need to get it fair. If the CCA is going to add TC then they need to abide by all of the same rules as the other teams. One exception is the host province having a bye. That makes sense.

I know some of you will say blah blah blah its not fair that TC could actually be relegated. Well ....... now you know how BC, NWT and Yukon feel.

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 612

quote:

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Originally posted by slushboy
Some interesting information.

And finally, where is the proof that having Team Canada gets better teams to the Scotties. Only once has the Team Canada home province won the Scotties.

Team Canada sounds really good for the Scotties and the Brier when you have multiple top teams in 1 province. When you had Koe, Martin, and Ferby all battling to make it out of Alberta. 3 teams that would likely all make the playoffs and be favorites. But how many provinces in men's or woman's actually have 2 teams capable of winning the Brier or Scotties. If Gushue wins the Brier this year is there going to be great excitement about having the second best team from NFL at the Brier.

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 210

quote:

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Originally posted by Island Roger
This can happen folks. We need to get it fair. If the CCA is going to add TC then they need to abide by all of the same rules as the other teams. One exception is the host province having a bye. That makes sense.

I know some of you will say blah blah blah its not fair that TC could actually be relegated. Well ....... now you know how BC, NWT and Yukon feel.

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 48

quote:

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Originally posted by Island Roger
This can happen folks. We need to get it fair. If the CCA is going to add TC then they need to abide by all of the same rules as the other teams. One exception is the host province having a bye. That makes sense.

I know some of you will say blah blah blah its not fair that TC could actually be relegated. Well ....... now you know how BC, NWT and Yukon feel.

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Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 51

quote:

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Originally posted by Borough Boy


Umm do you not think that the sponsor has any say in this...............

And for the record, no they (the CCA) don't have to abide by the same rules, they are the ones MAKING the rules.

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