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04-16-19 04:11PM
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Gerry
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No Tick Shot rule to be test at Champions Cup

See release:
http://www.thegrandslamofcurling.co...-champions-cup/

The rule will be tested is that any guards touching the centre line can not be ticked in the 8th or Extra Ends.

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04-16-19 06:11PM
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interesting rule - certainly changes the curling algorithm about whether teams take a point to tie and lose hammer coming home - or take out 1 opponent stone to let opposition grab a single - then 2 down w/ hammer.

Can't see that happening with this rule in play - however on swing ice where grabbing the centre-line could be troublesome - who knows? You pit your chances against the down team's ability to cover the centre-line.

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04-16-19 06:22PM
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I can see this being the rule after the next Olympic cycle, but for every end, not just 8 and the extra.

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04-16-19 07:34PM
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It’s ridiculous to only have this rule in place at the end of the game. The available tactics to teams should remain consistent throughout.

It’s like telling a hockey or soccer team they’re not allowed to have a goalie in the final 2 minutes.

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04-16-19 10:01PM
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I agree. You can't and or shouldn't have rules for the last end or extra ends just to appease whiners about how the game ends. You HAVE to have rules that are for the whole game, not just at the end to HELP the losing team make a come back. If you really wanted to win you should have pressed earlier, including not blanking ends......Put up some guards!!!! Why put the rock in the rings KNOWING it would be hit. STOP. Play the game and shut up. Maybe the rule should be you CAN'T put rocks in the rings for the first 4 shots!!! Rules for the whole game or none at all. The last end and extras is an insult to all. Keep this up it will be Crokinole on ice, not curling.

Too much? I don't think so. I know, another rant, but why?

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04-16-19 10:52PM
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It's time for a revolt. This constant changing of rules-led mainly by Gerry himself as head of the WCT-is asinine and turning our sport into a laughing stock.

Broomgate, juiced rocks, whiny crybaby slammers who can't adjust to challenging ice conditions and a Tour head who's more concerned with placating TV exec's and sponsors than keeping the integrity of the sport.

Enough is enough.

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04-17-19 03:59AM
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Firstly, if both Skips disagree on whether a guard is touching the centre line or not, how will judgment be rendered? When both Skips disagree - or are unsure - if a rock is biting the House or not, they bring out the stick to determine.
Are you going to invent a measuring device to determine if a rock is touching the centre line or not?

More importantly...
This seemingly neverending tinkering with the rules is quite sad...
It's at the point now where it seems that it's being done just to 'prove' someone's importance (as in 'Look - I'm so important, I can change the rules of the game').
If players find a better way to play the game - which the 'tick shot' is - a rule is proposed to prevent it. Why?
Why not simply embrace the fact that the 'tick shot' is a talent - both the strategy of calling it, and the proper execution of it. It requires skill. I'm quite sure that fans and players alike want and respect skillful play. So why in hell come up with rules to PREVENT SKILLFUL PLAY??

In our current world, some people think that we need rapid and perpetual change to everything. These people confuse change with improvement. Change is not necessarily improvement. In fact, with the rate of change to things today, most change is an actual regression, and not a progression. This rule is a perfect example. It is change simply for the sake of change. And that is disrespectful to the game, and to its fans.

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04-17-19 07:57AM
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I don’t like the rule. Even though this is a repeat of other events, I don’t like putting a rule in that penalizes good shots. Why not punish hit and rolls, freezes, or doubles? Or even more ridiculous put in a rule that you can’t be ahead by more than 2 points. If you want to generate excitement then make it so if you blank you lose hammer. Then teams will be forced to be more offensive.

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04-17-19 10:23AM
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I think a major flaw with this rule is that it will result in draws being pulled from the sheet if they wreck on the guard - even just enough to nudge the guard off of the centre line.

Previous rule changes around guards penalize obvious shots - peels. This rule penalizes shots that are outside the intended scope of the rule (and well within normal play - what else are you going to play than a come around?).

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04-17-19 12:21PM
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quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose
In our current world, some people think that we need rapid and perpetual change to everything. These people confuse change with improvement. Change is not necessarily improvement. In fact, with the rate of change to things today, most change is an actual regression, and not a progression. This rule is a perfect example. It is change simply for the sake of change. And that is disrespectful to the game, and to its fans.



So. Agreed.

Yet I got scoffed at by Devin Heroux on Twitter for not liking change; I too just don't see the point to make changes for the sake of making changes. Whatever.

Last edited by MeaghanEdwards on 04-17-19 at 12:27PM

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04-17-19 01:11PM
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This is ****ing stupid. Rhis makes no sense. I fail to see how this helps move the game forward. I dont mind changes that improve the sport. The 5 rock rule for example I'm a fan of. But this makes no sense

I'm sure at some point Gerry will come on here and defend this test . After all apparently hes a fan of all changes. It's almost gotten to the point where I just dont even care to read his posts because it's almost always a paragraph on why this change or this test should be supported. Blah, blah, blah.

Even as a test this is nonsensical. Not all ideas we pull out of our ass are worth trying.

What's the next little test. No peeling of guards? Maybe no run backs. Or hey, let's try no timeouts or changing hammer if a team blanks. Or maybe we start having a new rule every end specific to the end so all 8 ends are played under different rules

You know what's ironic?. They are trying to find a way to speed the sport up yet the introduction of the 5 rock rule and now if this gets accepted and is a thing in the game moving forward it would actually only serve to slow it down

Last edited by misty1 on 04-17-19 at 01:17PM

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04-17-19 01:20PM
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quote:
Originally posted by MeaghanEdwards


So. Agreed.

Yet I got scoffed at by Devin Heroux on Twitter for not liking change; I too just don't see the point to make changes for the sake of making changes. Whatever.



Devin, along with Gerry and a few others are clearly on that camp that thinks all change is good change. Just shut up and accept it because the people implementing them know what they're doing. It's not even worth it to get into a debate or discussion with either of them over it.

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04-17-19 01:26PM
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Those folks who administer the curling world just couldn't wait another minute to mess around with the Tick rules could they. Since they never bother to divulge the pros and cons of their decisions - not unlike their bubbleheaded "fair and balanced" pool decisions in September, October and November - one has to believe this was done because they believed this will actually create/generate increased fan excitement. But will it and at what cost?

Can only guess what else these masterminds might have in store for us but if it's so important for them to have a house like Peggy's Cove, why not ban takeouts altogether? In effect, replace takeouts with draws only. Sounds wonderful doesn't it and can't you just imagine how thrilling and exciting it would be to see the 4 and 8 foot bulging with rocks every single end? And because there is no end to this kind of nonsense and because there is such a desperate need to create even more curling drama, what in the world will they consider next?

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04-17-19 01:57PM
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Couldn't agree more with most of the posts above.
The tick shot is a skill shot so why penalize teams that can pull it off regularly?

It also creates offence now and then. Many times I've seen a team try a tick and it overcurls and fails, now you've got two guards out front.


Just another reason not to watch this event which is probably one of those slam specials where they play 5 days of round robin to eliminate 4 teams (and anyone who follows curling can identify at least 3 of the 4 who won't qualify).

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04-17-19 03:14PM
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Change for the sake of change. Some excellent points raised here. The tick shot shows skills, more often then not I see it fail.

You are going to get arguments like - this wasn't a tick shot I was trying to draw around the guard!

We've done a lot of changes in the last few years, brooms, 5 rocks, ends etc...let's take a break and let the game just be played.

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04-17-19 05:18PM
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I wouldn't mind the powers to be lopping of 90 seconds to 2 minutes from the think time tank.

Even slow-players who notoriously drain the clock for all its worth seem to usually finish games with time left on the clock.

2 minutes off think time + cut 10 seconds between ends, too!

Just pick up the pace - slow teams will still play slow but they'll be a bit more aware of the clock!

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04-18-19 05:33PM
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A huge majority of tweeters and posters seem to take some comfort in the fact that this experiment is merely a test and there is, therefore, absolutely no reason for anybody to get their shorts in a wringer at this point of time.

What these folks don't seem to realize, however, is that the same wise guys who dreamt-up this experiment in the first place will be exactly the same people who will decide if it will be implemented.

And can we expect they will provide us with a detailed explanation of the results? Of course they will.

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04-19-19 08:53AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
A huge majority of tweeters and posters seem to take some comfort in the fact that this experiment is merely a test and there is, therefore, absolutely no reason for anybody to get their shorts in a wringer at this point of time.

What these folks don't seem to realize, however, is that the same wise guys who dreamt-up this experiment in the first place will be exactly the same people who will decide if it will be implemented.

And can we expect they will provide us with a detailed explanation of the results? Of course they will.



In your dreams. lol

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04-19-19 10:43AM
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quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose
Firstly, if both Skips disagree on whether a guard is touching the centre line or not, how will judgment be rendered? When both Skips disagree - or are unsure - if a rock is biting the House or not, they bring out the stick to determine.
Are you going to invent a measuring device to determine if a rock is touching the centre line or not?



there's already a tool in the official's toolkit to determine if a rock is fully over the hog line or not, a "speed square", the triangular right angle thing carpenters use a lot.

Align the square on the inner edge of the hog line, if it's touching the stone, it's hogged, if not it's good.

It's also potentially used to determine if a stone is still in play or if it has crossed the back line, similar methodology.

Simple to extend this to if a stone is touching the center line or not...no new tool needed, no new technique needed.

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04-19-19 11:25AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer

What these folks don't seem to realize, however, is that the same wise guys who dreamt-up this experiment in the first place will be exactly the same people who will decide if it will be implemented.



True.

However, they have backed off of not implementing tests before.

Remember the Mixed Doubles shot clock test at the Continental Cup a few years ago?

They tested something, it didn't work at all, they tossed it away.

So it's not as though tests = certain implementation...it's a test.

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04-19-19 11:45AM
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quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose
...More importantly...
This seemingly neverending tinkering with the rules is quite sad...
It's at the point now where it seems that it's being done just to 'prove' someone's importance (as in 'Look - I'm so important, I can change the rules of the game').
If players find a better way to play the game - which the 'tick shot' is - a rule is proposed to prevent it. Why?
Why not simply embrace the fact that the 'tick shot' is a talent - both the strategy of calling it, and the proper execution of it. It requires skill. I'm quite sure that fans and players alike want and respect skillful play. So why in hell come up with rules to PREVENT SKILLFUL PLAY??

In our current world, some people think that we need rapid and perpetual change to everything. These people confuse change with improvement. Change is not necessarily improvement. In fact, with the rate of change to things today, most change is an actual regression, and not a progression. This rule is a perfect example. It is change simply for the sake of change. And that is disrespectful to the game, and to its fans.



Nose is, well, right on the nose with this statement.

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04-19-19 11:53AM
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quote:
Originally posted by AlanMacNeill


True.

However, they have backed off of not implementing tests before.

Remember the Mixed Doubles shot clock test at the Continental Cup a few years ago?

They tested something, it didn't work at all, they tossed it away.

So it's not as though tests = certain implementation...it's a test.



Ok Alan, fair enough.

However, let's put this 'test' into it's proper context.

This is a Slam event. Which, in the eyes of the WCT and their little closed shop of teams, is supposed to be a premier showcase tour event rivaling (or in their opinions besting) the Brier and World Championships.

So why do you turn such a marquee event into a clown car sideshow testbed?
.
Let me put this in a different perspective. Using this event as a testbed is the equivalent of the PGA stating: 'Y'know a hole in one is way more exciting than a putt. So let's make the hole the size of, say, a large household garbage can so it's easier for a hole in one on par 3's or to sink an approach shot. And we're going to testbed this new rule at the US Open'

Now of course they wouldn't do it at a Major. Nor would the NFL, NBA, MLB and various other pro sports organizations test a potential rule change at a marque event like the Super Bowl, World Series, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

They would do it either in the minor leagues or exhibition games first. By all means consider potential changes but do it a smaller event. The WCT has plenty of smaller spiels to experiment with. Why not use them instead?

After all, Gerry and his Slam buddies have gone to great length to try and convince the rest of the competitive curling world that they're only worthy of 'Tier Two' status (mainly because they just aren't wealthy enough or backed by national governments). So it makes perfect sense to turn the rest of us into his Guinea Pigs.

Only the WCT is stupid enough to turn a supposedly big event into a circus. And therein lies the reason why, each year, there are fewer and fewer cash spiels on their calendar as they continue to turn off capable athletes from competing.

Good job guys.

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Last edited by jamcan on 04-19-19 at 12:02PM

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04-19-19 12:44PM
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Coming soon, the return of the painted 4 foot strip in the FGZ. Any rock in this area will not be allowed to be used for run backs until the vices second rock. Conversely a no guard zone where none of the first 5 rocks of an end can occupy this area.

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04-19-19 02:50PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
Coming soon, the return of the painted 4 foot strip in the FGZ. Any rock in this area will not be allowed to be used for run backs until the vices second rock. Conversely a no guard zone where none of the first 5 rocks of an end can occupy this area.


Also coming soon-a new rule whereby in the last end, any team leading by more than 1 point has to play the entire end without sweeping and throwing using their opposite hands. The theory being its just too easy to defend a lead with sweeping and your dominant hand and how dare you have the audacity to outplay your opponent and get a lead in the first place...

Seriously though, let's not give these idiots any more ideas, shall we?

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04-19-19 10:14PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jamcan


Ok Alan, fair enough.

However, let's put this 'test' into it's proper context.

This is a Slam event. Which, in the eyes of the WCT and their little closed shop of teams, is supposed to be a premier showcase tour event rivaling (or in their opinions besting) the Brier and World Championships.

So why do you turn such a marquee event into a clown car sideshow testbed?
.
Let me put this in a different perspective. Using this event as a testbed is the equivalent of the PGA stating: 'Y'know a hole in one is way more exciting than a putt. So let's make the hole the size of, say, a large household garbage can so it's easier for a hole in one on par 3's or to sink an approach shot. And we're going to testbed this new rule at the US Open'

Now of course they wouldn't do it at a Major. Nor would the NFL, NBA, MLB and various other pro sports organizations test a potential rule change at a marque event like the Super Bowl, World Series, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

They would do it either in the minor leagues or exhibition games first. By all means consider potential changes but do it a smaller event. The WCT has plenty of smaller spiels to experiment with. Why not use them instead?

After all, Gerry and his Slam buddies have gone to great length to try and convince the rest of the competitive curling world that they're only worthy of 'Tier Two' status (mainly because they just aren't wealthy enough or backed by national governments). So it makes perfect sense to turn the rest of us into his Guinea Pigs.

Only the WCT is stupid enough to turn a supposedly big event into a circus. And therein lies the reason why, each year, there are fewer and fewer cash spiels on their calendar as they continue to turn off capable athletes from competing.

Good job guys.



i agree here. if you're going to test something out test it at an event that doesnt matter. test it out at the continental cup.no one takes that glorified exhibition seriously anyway so its the perfect playground to test out any new ideas they pull out of their ass. or maybe their latest exhibition series. the world cup which is billed as a more serious event but everyone know that its just a meaningless exhibition built for the top top players to showcase and get more money again. i really doubt the world cup will even still be running in 20 years time.

i really feel like whats hurting curling more than anything recently is lack of consistency. within the last 5 years we have had more changes, tournaments altered or added and rules changed than we had in the last previous 2 decades combined. its very hard for people that are coming into this sport as a new fan to grasp anything because these changes are coming so fast now. and while i doubt that the first time ever someone is going to see curling is at a slam it has to be confusing when they see a rule implemented there and then nowhere else or never agin.

quite honestly all these rapid changes and the habit of making the slams the test ground just makes curling look like a disorganized circus. how can they expect anyone to take the slams or curling seriously lately when they wont stop ****ing around with the rules.

at the very least if the changes were tested at the continental cup people would know not to expect to see things anywhere else.

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