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watcher2
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 49

It's time to crack down on International teams

It’s time to crack down on these international teams!

When is enough is enough? I just got back from the latest slam event. Edin won….well he got the easy side of the playdown and McEwen had the worst game I have ever seen him play. It happens.

What I am boiling about is we let teams like Edin…fully funded by their government…..paid a salary to curl….all expenses paid….with a full complement of support also paid by their government…… come here to train and get better playing our guys.

Edin hasn’t played in his own country this season and has played mainly on arena ice because all his expenses, flights, rooms, etc. are paid for by his government. Then to top it off all the money he wins in Canada is just gravy to him, while our guys struggle to make ends meet.

And Edin is only one of the many international teams supported in this way, letting Canada pick up the tab for all the events that train them!

The Canadian Curlers must have real jobs to live because we waste our grant money supporting self fulfilling organizations like CCA and CAC rather than the real players!

We have to get off our hands and stop this crap!

If you don’t play at least ½ your games in your own country you should not be allowed to represent it in International events.

Take ½ the funding given to CCA and CAC and route it back to the Canadian players so at least a few teams are fully funded.

Have Immigration Canada look into the working status of these International teams to see if they are in Canada working legally and have CRA look into the tax status.

Get back to a level playing field!

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Old Post 04-18-17 10:06AM
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Squiggsy
Swing Artist

Registered: Apr 2008
Location:
Posts: 246

This is easily the worst post I've read on this forum. That's an impressive accomplishment. You do know it's called the World Curling Tour, right?

Last edited by Squiggsy on 04-18-17 at 10:21AM

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Old Post 04-18-17 10:15AM
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watcher2
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 49

Well you can't deny that it certainly disadvantages Canadian teams and the results will be a fall from International grace.

One has to ask how you can represent a country that you never curl in or even live in for 1/2 the year?

I do know that the old tax laws required you to live in country 6 months. At that point you had to pay Canadian tax.

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Old Post 04-18-17 10:30AM
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Squiggsy
Swing Artist

Registered: Apr 2008
Location:
Posts: 246

quote:
Originally posted by watcher2
Well you can't deny that it certainly disadvantages Canadian teams and the results will be a fall from International grace.



Canada went 26-0 at the world's this year. They are the reigning Olympic gold medalists in the men's and women's divisions. Canada seems to be doing okay.

One team doing well on tour will not make Canada fall from grace in curling. If anything, it will help us get better. You get better by playing better teams. That's why Edin is over here.

quote:
Originally posted by watcher2

One has to ask how you can represent a country that you never curl in or even live in for 1/2 the year?



How many business people or people in the military spend time away from Canada, yet still call Canada home? Sidney Crosby lives in Pittsburgh for most of the year, and plays many NHL games around the rest of the States. Do you have a problem with him when he puts on the Team Canada jersey for us at the Olympics?

quote:
Originally posted by watcher2

I do know that the old tax laws required you to live in country 6 months. At that point you had to pay Canadian tax.



As a CA, with an extensive background in tax, I can tell you that's not how Canadian tax works. There are some points in there that you can look into, but there isn't just one test that says if you live in Canada for 6 months you pay Canadian tax. In fact, that's not even one of the tests. To go the complete other way, you can spend all 365 days outside of Canada, yet still be a resident of Canada, and still pay Canadian tax. There are an infinite number of possibilities on this, but the point is you don't know their tax situation, nor should you comment on it.

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Old Post 04-18-17 11:12AM
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Manitoba Legend
Supreme Champion!

Registered: Jan 2009
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Posts: 10869

I have no problem with international competitors winning money on the Canadian slam tour - until it reaches at least a million dollars, anyways!

One exception is if these teams (like Edin) are being re-imbursed for their travel, food & lodging. For some teams that could be even more than their winnings.

In Edins case it might be equal.

Why should Canada subsidize travel & lodging for international teams. Can we verify they do it for one team? More than one team?

Do the big tournaments in Europe and Asia compensate Canadian teams for participating?

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Old Post 04-18-17 11:28AM
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Guest
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: .
Posts: 1844

Re: It's time to crack down on International teams

quote:
Originally posted by watcher2
It’s time to crack down ... blah, blah, blah


Hey, thanks for you post, Kellie Leitch.

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Last edited by Guest on 04-18-17 at 11:34AM

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Old Post 04-18-17 11:31AM
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drawthepin
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 42

I assume you know that Sportsnet is a private company that owns the Grand Slam Series and they want the best teams participating.

Your rant would have merit if out of country teams were playing in Curling Canada sanctioned events (Canada Cup) and taking money away from Canadian teams.

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Old Post 04-18-17 11:48AM
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Observer
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Apr 2016
Location:
Posts: 61

So...watcher2 basically wants to build a wall along the Arctic Ocean coastline and make Sweden pay for it?

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Old Post 04-18-17 12:54PM
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Grat
Hitting Paint

Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 101

Ok, but any Canadian citizen playing for a US based NHL team can't play for the Canadian National team either. We Americans are tired of funding their training and coaching.

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Old Post 04-18-17 01:14PM
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danishculer
Knee-Slider

Registered: Apr 2017
Location:
Posts: 1

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


In Edins case it might be equal.

Why should Canada subsidize travel & lodging for international teams. Can we verify they do it for one team? More than one team?

Do the big tournaments in Europe and Asia compensate Canadian teams for participating?



Hi Manitoba Legend,

First of all, no one can verify that, because IT DOES NOT exist.

Niklas Edins team, are received some support from the Swedish Olympic Committee. Just as some Canadian teams, are on some sort of program, which gives them some funding as well.

Edins team, DOES NOT receive any money from Curling Canada nor Canada itself, only when winning prize money at events.

Lastly, as of my knowledge Canadian teams DO NOT receive compensation in Europe/Asia, just because of their geographical home. Same goes for European/Asian teams in Canada.

Hope that helps it a bit.

Cheers.

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Old Post 04-18-17 01:28PM
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Gerry
CZ Founder

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3885

In a twist to this, Canadian teams have received costs covered to events in the past. Some European events would offer incentives to Canadian teams traveling to big events there and the Karuizawa, Japan event does cover the costs of the Canadian team traveling there. Korea has also been funding Canadian teams to train with their teams as well.

Jennifer Jones is also heading to an event in Russia in June that will have their costs covered too. So, in a way, this is an even sillier post considering Canadian teams are benefitting as much or more from International opportunities as well.

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Old Post 04-18-17 01:39PM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 618

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
In a twist to this, Canadian teams have received costs covered to events in the past. Some European events would offer incentives to Canadian teams traveling to big events there and the Karuizawa, Japan event does cover the costs of the Canadian team traveling there. Korea has also been funding Canadian teams to train with their teams as well.

Jennifer Jones is also heading to an event in Russia in June that will have their costs covered too. So, in a way, this is an even sillier post considering Canadian teams are benefitting as much or more from International opportunities as well.



Pretty incredible the Russians will pay for Canada.

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Old Post 04-18-17 01:48PM
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guido
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 853

It doesn't matter how teams get to the events funding wise.
It only makes EVERYONE play their best to win. It makes for the best curling competitions ever. On another note, The non elite competitive leagues playing for cash has ruined the game for a lot of curlers. The "fun" is starting to get lost. Generally speaking, curling seems to be dying a slow death.

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Old Post 04-18-17 01:49PM
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JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 265

What, again?

Haven't we flogged this topic to death in the past? Watcher2, you were wrong in the past, and surprisingly enough, you're still in the wrong now. And as per normal, you've added a crack about the COC and Curling Canada into the mix. And you're still wrong. Period.

(I'd make a crack as it's normal for you to be wrong but that be mean. As shoot, I said it anyway, didn't I?)

We have Canadian only events. They're called the Brier, Scotties, Canada Cup, Canadian Olympic Trials and so on.

The "World" Curling Tour means that it's the best curlers in the world. If you want the WCT to be something more than some irrelevant niche tourney for a silly niche sport, you have to accept that anyone, from anywhere can join the tour and make a go of it.

I look at the WCT as an analogy to a professional golf tour. The prizes are smaller, so teams have to come up with alternate funding sources, and that includes government funding.

And in case you weren't aware, teams are sponsored all over the world (not just overseas, but Canadian ones as well) so that their costs are covered and they can dedicate their full time to the sport.

It just happens that Edin is really frickin' good. Yes, he's a full time sponsored curler, but he has the skill to win at the level.

China, Scotland and so forth are full time government funded curlers as well. Don't see them doing what Edin is doing.

By the way, Curling Canada and the COC does fund curlers at the elite level, for men's, women's, mixed doubles and wheelchair events. All told, it's around $500,000 / year for men's and women's (not sure about the wheelchair or mixed doubles). That's on top of whatever sponsorship and prize money the teams bring in.

Now can we stop resurrecting the illogical ramblings of the woefully uninformed and possibly delusional few and talk about something a little more important?

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Old Post 04-18-17 02:09PM
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Lebowski
Knee-Slider

Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 4

Considering the International teams are a growing number of teams competing in Canada and a lot of the mid level teams are disappearing, they're vital to the success of the tour long-term. We need more International teams playing in Canada, not less.

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Old Post 04-18-17 02:34PM
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carmanp
Knee-Slider

Registered: Apr 2017
Location:
Posts: 1

SportsNet OWNS the Grand Slam of Curling series .It is not up to the government or anyone else to decide who participates at these events . Invited men’s and women’s teams must qualify according to predetermined criteria, and are awarded qualifying bonus points during each tournament, dependent upon the number of participating teams.

The teams at these events are earning their rankings through their skills. Once they reach the 'elite level' in their own countries, they receive funding to play, just as our players do.

Our own government has a sports support program that has an athlete assistance program that helps curlers at an elite level with living and training expenses.The level of funding may not be the same, but who is at fault for that - not the curlers!

Are we really going to start trying to dictate to organizations (i.e. the World Curling Federation or Canadian Curling Association) as to who can or can not participate in events because of team funding? I think not.

Just as a note of interest - Edin may be #1 in the $earning list, but he is followed closely by Gushue, Jacobs & Carruthers. In the Men's standings, there are only 2 teams in the top 10 that are NOT Canadian based, and 3 non-Canadian teams in the women's standings. I don't think our teams are hurting any because of government funding or lack of it!

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Old Post 04-18-17 02:55PM
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misty1
Supreme Champion!

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 5032

there's so much ignorance and stupidity in the op's post i cant even believe it.

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Old Post 04-18-17 05:15PM
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broomsmith
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Apr 2016
Location:
Posts: 12

Sweden isn't sending their best. They are sending their rapists and murderers.

These are some bad hombres.

http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/w...ad509c__605.gif

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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2024

How about more cash spiels/tier 2 events in the Maritimes, Quebec, BC & the North? That will get development going.

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Old Post 04-18-17 06:27PM
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amead
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 24

Wink

Make curling great again!

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Old Post 04-19-17 07:49AM
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jamcan
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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2144

quote:
Originally posted by misty1
there's so much ignorance and stupidity in the op's post i cant even believe it.


Um, not sure if anyone here has noticed-before or after all these long rebuttal posts-but Watcher2 has quietly slipped away and not responded to anything here. Which, if they really believed in their stance, they would do.

I think you've been pogue'd people. But you have upped the old post counts during the slow season. Lol.

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Old Post 04-19-17 09:48AM
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nelski
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Hill Bottom Corner
Posts: 1600

quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
Um, not sure if anyone here has noticed-before or after all these long rebuttal posts-but Watcher2 has quietly slipped away and not responded to anything here. Which, if they really believed in their stance, they would do. I think you've been pogue'd people. But you have upped the old post counts during the slow season. Lol.

And now it the this thread is being tweeted and shared! Don't often see our discussions go beyond. Nice work Watcher2

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Old Post 04-19-17 01:39PM
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misty1
Supreme Champion!

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 5032

quote:
Originally posted by jamcan


Um, not sure if anyone here has noticed-before or after all these long rebuttal posts-but Watcher2 has quietly slipped away and not responded to anything here. Which, if they really believed in their stance, they would do.

I think you've been pogue'd people. But you have upped the old post counts during the slow season. Lol.



you know, id actually be okay with that. rather than believe someone genuinely believed what was in the first post here

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Old Post 04-19-17 04:06PM
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watcher2
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 49

Let's play this chess game through to the end.

Out of country teams come to Canada to learn to play but most importantly learn to beat Canadian teams. Many, like Edin, are full sponsored and salaried by their government sports ministries. It is simply cheaper to sponsor a few teams than building curling in their home countries so this does nothing to build curling as a sport. Why....simple....the Olympics. The sports status of winning at the Olympics is very important in some countries like Sweden, Russia, China, etc.

The fact that these teams are better supported and funded will end up with them winning at the Olympics in the near future. At some point Canada will fall out of the metals entirely.

Much of the major Government money that comes to support Curling in Canada, CCA funding, CAC funding revolves around winning at the Olympics. Things like own the podium grants, etc.

If Canada fails to win at a couple of Olympics how long do you think it will take before that money will be diverted to other sports and curling support fades into the past?

Look to the end game!

And my tax and immigration comment was that this should be investigated....I made no conclusions and without information you shouldn't either.

Last edited by watcher2 on 04-19-17 at 05:29PM

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Old Post 04-19-17 05:26PM
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nelski
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Hill Bottom Corner
Posts: 1600

quote:
Originally posted by misty1
you know, id actually be okay with that. rather than believe someone genuinely believed what was in the first post here

Yeah. Maybe we'll get a few more joiners on. The explanations and rebuttals were quick and succinct. Come on, watcher2 - give us another.

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