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W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W5 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00am CT
Giroux Final
Schapman (7) Watch Live Curling!
Johnson 10  Final
Scheel (9) Watch Live Curling!
Berg Final
Viau (9) Watch Live Curling!
Pekowitz 11  Final
Berg (7) Watch Live Curling!
M: New Holland Canadian Junior Championships
Fort McMurray, AB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 11 -- Wed, Mar 27 -- 7:00pm MT
NL (Tipple) Final
BC (Fenton) (10)
NB (Stewart) 11  Final
QC (Bedard) (8)
MB (McDonald) Final
NS (Mosher) (8)
ON (MacTavish) Final
SK (Derksen) (10)
NO (Deschene) Final
MB (Freeman) (9)
NS (MacIsaac) Final
PEI (MacFayden) (9)
NO (Rajala) Final
ON (Mulima) (9)
BC (Duncan-Wu) Final
AB (Wipf) 10  (8)
M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 12:00pm CT
Church 6th
Rose  Watch Live Curling!
Brenden 6th
Guentzel  Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald 5th
Hebert  Watch Live Curling!
Lannoye 6th
Cenzalli
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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02-21-15 07:26PM
Flat Hat is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Flat Hat Click here to Send Flat Hat a Private Message Find more posts by Flat Hat Add Flat Hat to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Flat Hat
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 86

I agree Tuck, it stinks to have it not matter like it used to, but we still haven't figured out a way to get our curlers competitive at the world level - we're trying something new to us, but that has helped other countries become competitive on the world stage. I think we need to give it more than 1 year to bear fruit.

That said, this will be the 2nd worlds under this system and ironically, the same people who weren't competitive enough the past years are now representing us under the new system. Does that mean the system is broken or won't work, or that we still haven't developed the young talent this system is designed for? I think it may be the later, but I know that any bonspiel has a winner and it could be our year.

Without doubt, Team Shuster has the most to be proud of, they got left off the HPP, were written off by US Curling, and instead of bitching on the internet, they got out there and worked and traveled and earned the right to go to the worlds. (and if they wanted, to say I told you so to the HPP)

The women didn't get the same fairy-tale ending for Erika, and the system in place helped put a new team in the worlds. Again, Pure class from Team Brown, they went out and did everything they could to win, they just fell short in OOM points. That's how the system works.

The system may or may not work this year, but if we had to invest a year of world experience in hopes of an olympic payoff in 2018, I think we'd all agree it should go to our development teams. In this case, it did and we'll see how things work out on the ice.

Now regarding all the Shuster hate out there - I'm appalled but not surprised by the venom being spewed. I wonder if these people would say the same face-to-face or if they are hiding behind anonymity to be trolls? Curling is one of the few games where it is unethical to do anything that might upset the other team. In fact, the only people you can affect negatively during the game is your own team. Too bad we can't apply that lesson more broadly, in the 'spirit of curling'!

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02-21-15 11:17PM
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nom de broom
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Posts: 84

quote:
Originally posted by Flat Hat
Now regarding all the Shuster hate out there - I'm appalled but not surprised by the venom being spewed. I wonder if these people would say the same face-to-face or if they are hiding behind anonymity to be trolls? Curling is one of the few games where it is unethical to do anything that might upset the other team. In fact, the only people you can affect negatively during the game is your own team. Too bad we can't apply that lesson more broadly, in the 'spirit of curling'!


I'm assuming by "out there" you mean "not this thread" -- where for an entire week there's been a metric f*ckton worth of supportive posts for Face, and that was before he won and we cheered at his determination to beat the system.

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[Original Ray's] nom de broom

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02-22-15 12:18AM
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Flat Hat
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 86

quote:
Originally posted by nom de broom


I'm assuming by "out there" you mean "not this thread" -- where for an entire week there's been a metric f*ckton worth of supportive posts for Face, and that was before he won and we cheered at his determination to beat the system.



There has been a bit of crap spewed on this thread, calling him unsportsmanlike and calling for him to be removed from curling. I tried to look up what happened and didn't find a thing from 2010 olympics, but did run into a fair number of people posting how they hated him for missing 3 hammers in 2010 and 'ruining curling'. I have seen other threads that weren't Shuster support here in the past. I wouldn't give this place a pass on the hate spewing at all, but am glad there is some support here too.

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02-22-15 09:18AM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613

"Hoist by his own petar" is, I believe, how Shakespeare put it in Hamlet. Richard Maskel would know for sure.

"Hoisted by their own petard" might be the more modern English.

A petard is a primitive explosive. The entomology of the word is French for fart. The phrase means to be have one's own plan come back and blow up in your face. It implies irony and I do appreciate some good irony.

Face and Team Rejects read the rules and knew the task in front of them. They started with their own limited money. Cash winning and Points came early and that was key. (next time they see Stu from Stu Sells they ought to kiss him right on the lips...twice spiels that he sponsors gave them money and Points)

Does this outcome indict the entire HP Program and the logic behind it? To a large extent, yes...BUT you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Advances have been made.

The primary faults of the HPP seem to be the shrinking of the talent pool and its inherent unfairness. Legitimate questions also exist concerning team chemistry and team building.

For the good of USA curling, voices must now arise that build upon what has been accomplished by adding to the program aspects that address the shortcomings. We need ideas for improvement and not just cries of derision. We need leadership to rise up and either recognize the need for improvement of the High Performance Plan or to defend it in its totality to its stakeholders.

We are the United States of America. We have been blessed with great resources. We are known to have innovative minds. We can do this.

Now let's get back to the part where all of you are buying me drinks.

Ben Tucker

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02-22-15 02:24PM
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Flat Hat
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 86

quote:
Originally posted by tuck
"Does this outcome indict the entire HP Program and the logic behind it? To a large extent, yes...BUT you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Advances have been made.

The primary faults of the HPP seem to be the shrinking of the talent pool and its inherent unfairness. Legitimate questions also exist concerning team chemistry and team building.

For the good of USA curling, voices must now arise that build upon what has been accomplished by adding to the program aspects that address the shortcomings. We need ideas for improvement and not just cries of derision. We need leadership to rise up and either recognize the need for improvement of the High Performance Plan or to defend it in its totality to its stakeholders.

We are the United States of America. We have been blessed with great resources. We are known to have innovative minds. We can do this.

Ben Tucker



It seems the biggest lesson we can learn is not about the actual program but about the selection process. If all the winners had been picked by the HPP in the first place, what would the complaints be about? (I'm sure they would still exist in some form)

I don't know that the program is aimed at shrinking the talent pool, that would seem to have to come from the grass roots / clubs. The aim in my mind would be to focus on the talent most likely to medal for the US into the future. To a degree that is happening but the notion that players are pluggable is foolishness in a sport where 'professional' is not the same as getting paid. In football, I expect a highly paid pro to plug in and earn his keep, I don't expect such of people who sacrifice so much just to play the game and then get jerked around by a program that treats the team aspect of curling as an afterthought at best.

You make a good point about accountability, I doubt there is much of it in the HPP. The director has something of a checkered past when it comes to supporting his team, seeming more likely to throw them under the bus than to take a bullet for them.

You are an eloquent guy when you are pandering for drinks, I forgot myself and jumped off the couch and yelled YEAH like in Braveheart after your speech. Somehow I doubt that is what you meant by raising our voices...

In all seriousness, we should hold HPP accountable and ask them what lessons they think they learned from the first 2 years of this approach, and how they plan to address issues and refine the program.

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02-22-15 04:32PM
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brund
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2014
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With out a [doubt] since the 90s the top brass have been shrinking the talent pool. I have seen it first hand and been a part of it. Working towards mass competition in our own country and going up to Canada some is the long term fix. We have the 2nd most curlers in the world and we want to pattern our program after countries the size of Rhode Island. WTF This is all a power play by people that want to play God and say your in and your out, So when you say give it a chance, a lot of us have seen it for over 20 years and that's long enough.

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02-22-15 04:50PM
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Jimbobogie
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Feb 2014
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quote:
Originally posted by brund
Think you can do better give it your best shot. If you were watching Canada did the same thing in the last Olympics and nobody said any thing!!!!!!


Brund-gotta correct you there. There was a separate world curling championship (sponsored by Ford). Our Brier Winner, Kevin Koe went to Beijing where he finished 4th. (The "Guys in the Pants" won).
Our Olympic reps were determined in a separate Olympic Curling Trial in Winnipeg that was held in 2013.

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02-22-15 06:02PM
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brund
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2014
Location:
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quote:
Originally posted by Jimbobogie


Brund-gotta correct you there. There was a separate world curling championship (sponsored by Ford). Our Brier Winner, Kevin Koe went to Beijing where he finished 4th. (The "Guys in the Pants" won).
Our Olympic reps were determined in a separate Olympic Curling Trial in Winnipeg that was held in 2013.

Point being your boys from Canada were kicking rocks and doing a lot of bitching no different than Shuster. Hell it was so bad that team was broke up before it was over. LOL

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02-22-15 07:43PM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613

Jimbo, PLEASE be careful. IF Brund is who I think he is:

3 time USA Men's champion
Finished in the top half of every Worlds he went to
2 World playoff appearances
USCA/USOC Male athlete of the year
1996 Ford Worlds Hot Shot winner
I believe he also played in the Nagano Olympics and the Olympics that was a demonstration sport...finishing top half both times and bronze for the one in France

His qualifications far exceed most who post here and he is passionate about USA curling.

Humbly,
Ben Tucker

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02-22-15 07:50PM
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Feb 2013
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Posts: 812

quote:
Originally posted by brund
Point being your boys from Canada were kicking rocks and doing a lot of bitching no different than Shuster. Hell it was so bad that team was broke up before it was over. LOL


Not exactly. No bitching and kicking rocks at Worlds. It was announced after the Brier but before the Worlds that Koe would have a new team for the 2014-15 season. The change had nothing to do with their not winning at Worlds

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02-22-15 07:59PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2014
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Tuck you forgot one thing.........Now by me my drinks lol

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02-22-15 08:17PM
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Flat Hat
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 86

quote:
Originally posted by brund
With out a [doubt] since the 90s the top brass have been shrinking the talent pool. I have seen it first hand and been a part of it. Working towards mass competition in our own country and going up to Canada some is the long term fix. We have the 2nd most curlers in the world and we want to pattern our program after countries the size of Rhode Island. WTF This is all a power play by people that want to play God and say your in and your out, So when you say give it a chance, a lot of us have seen it for over 20 years and that's long enough.


My point on the talent pool was that it wasn't the goal to shrink it. That may just be happening because of the times or incompetent leadership, but HPP can't take the blame for that, it's only 2 years old. I don't know how the competition level is these days, but it seems like there are more opportunities to compete at a high level than in my day. Singles, mixed dubs, nationals for every configuration, OOM, olympics and world-wide growth. If others are using those competitions to hone their skills and the US is staying in its comfortable pond, crowning the biggest tadpole and sending them to the shark pond to compete, it's no wonder they're getting eaten alive. You guys did pretty well back when, but since then it hasn't been pretty. What would you try instead of some kind of elite traveling team approach?

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02-22-15 09:15PM
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Registered: Feb 2014
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I was just correcting a detail about how the Canadian Olympic team was chosen.
As for what happened at the world's that's a different story.
The skip who lost the Brier (from BC) is now skipping Team Canada (out of Calgary), while Kevin and Pat are back as the "Back End" of Team Alberta. I swear that one day John Morris will skip the Nunavut Territory in the Brier...
Believe me, there's all kinds of yelling, screaming and bitching about curling on this side of the border. Take a look at some of the threads "up there".

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Curling Scores

W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W5 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00am CT
Giroux Final
Schapman (7) Watch Live Curling!
Johnson 10  Final
Scheel (9) Watch Live Curling!
Berg Final
Viau (9) Watch Live Curling!
Pekowitz 11  Final
Berg (7) Watch Live Curling!
M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 12:00pm CT
Church 6th
Rose  Watch Live Curling!
Brenden 6th
Guentzel  Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald 5th
Hebert  Watch Live Curling!
Lannoye 6th
Cenzalli
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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