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04-21-18 04:47PM
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
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Should out of Province Athletes Pay More for Entry?

Seeing as there is a few posts dealing with post season shuffling, I'd like to conduct an informal poll of those on CZ.

As we all know, the genie is out of the bottle regarding parachuting one out of province/territory athlete onto your team. However, there is-in BC at least-a growing undercurrent of those who feel that not only is this unfair, but it is also damaging to player development; ie a local athete is passed over and misses an opportunity to develop and gain valuable experience.

We can't stop this since the CCA, in all their questionable wisdom, allows this within eligibility rules. But many here in lotusland feel there should be a financial penalty assessed to any team who uses a non-local athlete. Said penalty fee to be a substantially higher entry fee than those using local athlete.

So the questions are:
1) do you favor a higher fee for teams employing an out of province athlete?

2) what amount of $ should that penalty be?

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04-21-18 04:50PM
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And I guess I should be willing to post my own response if I'm going to start the thread.

My answers are:
1) Yes
2) entry fee penalty should be $4,000.00 for the team (on top of the regular fee) and all money(s) to go towards Junior curling club development programs

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04-21-18 05:36PM
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guido
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All 4/5 members of every team should have to be active members of the same club, never mind the same province

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04-21-18 07:15PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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I think it's a great idea to charge more and give it to the junior program. They should also be a paid member of a club in their transplanted province and pay all the provincial dues. Maybe make the dues the part that's the higher amount. 4000 is a bit steep but could be a good deterrent for fraud.

One thing all provinces should do is follow up on all residency claims of any teams entered into provincial play downs. Now that Curling Canada has opened Pandora's Box for one per team, you KNOW some teams WILL scam a 2nd player. Get real proof that they live there, work there, have the new provincial drivers license that matches their new address, a new provincial medial card, more than one pay stub that has the matching address etc etc.
If it's a student, proof they;re full time, not just a token online course.

Anyway, associations need to be proactive to prevent fraudulent teams. Really not that hard to have 6-32 teams submit photocopies of all the pertinent info.

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04-21-18 07:21PM
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jamcan
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Guido, in-off, thks for the replies but I'm also looking for your answers to the 2 questions. do you agree with a penalty fee? and if yes, how much?

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04-21-18 07:48PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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yes
1000 extra first player

4000 fine if caught as fraudulent 2nd player and 2 year ban for all 4 players from competing at any level and/or all 4 banned until the fine is paid after the 2 years. No pay no play.

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04-21-18 09:47PM
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guido
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Registered: Feb 2011
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1. Yes
2. $10,000 no limit the outside of province.

Back in the day everyone was a member of the same club. The olympics have ruined that.

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04-21-18 10:09PM
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Ajay
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Re precludes local player a development spot. Without doing a detailed assessement, many imports could be offsets. A player from Manitoba goes to Saskatchewan and a Saskatchewan player goes to Manitoba, no spot used up. This will apply to most provinces.

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04-21-18 10:45PM
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On The Nose
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'Team Manitoba' should be comprised of players (and coach, if applicable) from Manitoba. I'd go so far as to say they must be born and bred and playing in Manitoba.
The same goes for every other province and territory.

That was the main purpose, after all - that 'Team Manitoba' be players who are actually from, and playing in, Manitoba. And that is how it should be - because, if you're playing for and representing Manitoba, you ought to be from bloody Manitoba! It's a rather simple equation.

Who came up with the idiotic idea that you could be from Ontario, or B.C., or P.E.I., and somehow play for and represent Saskatchewan? It's crazy.
I suppose they made this import rule in response to the abuse and cheating that was happening - i.e. players pretending to be from another province so that they could represent that province. I guess making a rule that allows one 'import' was easier and more convenient than standing up to the abuse and cheating with punishment to deter it.
But it's wrong - because a team made up of 3 players from Alberta and one from Ontario is NOT representative of Alberta - and so has no business playing under and for the Alberta flag.

What's next for the spineless curling authorities? Allowing one import per country team for the World Championships? For the Olympics?
That is definitely on the horizon - we already see in hockey in the Olympics where Canadians get French, or Korean, etc. citizenship, and play for the French, or Korean, etc. hockey team because they're not good enough to make the Canadian hockey team. They don't even have French or Korean roots, or ancestry!
Imports living in other countries is the next step.

It's all quite ridiculous.
People shouldn't pretend to be something they're not. Play for YOUR country/province/territory, and play with genuine pride.

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Last edited by On The Nose on 04-22-18 at 12:18AM

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04-21-18 11:50PM
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Ajay
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This concept be discussed is really based on yesterday’s fun game played by teams made up of friends for life and probably curled at the same club. This all changed when big money and travel perks entered the picture, including the olympics. It is now a professional sport which brings along all the things we are seeing .

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04-22-18 12:07AM
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guido
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Have the pros play for the money then. Have the scotties and brier for true provincial teams. Yes, I realize there is money in these. Choices would have to be made.

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04-22-18 08:16AM
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dks
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Oct 2012
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I believe that players should be legitimate residents of the province. No imports!! However, since it is currently allowed I say charge a higher fee. If the fee is to be a deterrent then I think a $4,000 dollar fee per team is reasonable. If the fee is just a token penalty, then why charge it?

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04-22-18 11:27AM
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Ajay
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Whether we like it or not, the level to which a sport is developed is 100% driven by money. This is the media, clothing/shoe manufacturers (new apparel every event), equipment, corporate sponsors, travel, hotels, eateries,. Without this we would not be watching the amount of curling we now have, nor would it develop beyond what we had 50 years ago. Money drives and grows virtually everything and this is no different.

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04-22-18 12:59PM
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jamcan
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Location: vernon bc
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money is important Ajay. but it should not be the single determining factor driving every decision in any sport. if it was, then I imagine the hole on a golf course would be the size of a bucket, since your theory would probably be more holes in one is more exciting, ergo more money so let's make that shot easier.

I'm you going to put you down as a 'no for the poll question with a final comment: we are in no way, shape or form, a professional sport. this is an illusion supported by only a few who profit from the game. every year over the past 20 the tour has shrunk with less prize money. this is not professionalism and nor is receiving federal support money. we can not even be considered semi-pro and there isn't even a true players association governing and protecting the interests of all competitive players. you should consider all this.

__________________
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Hunter S. Thompson

Last edited by jamcan on 04-22-18 at 01:05PM

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04-22-18 01:17PM
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NewCurlingDad
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Registered: Apr 2018
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Out of province curlers

I totally agree that out of province curlers should pay more in order to play/compete for their parachuted curling club. The out of province curler should also be required to give certain number of community hours to that curling club helping out for example Little Rocks and Junior Curling programs.

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04-22-18 02:09PM
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alex
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It's a good idea to charge more. Probably $1000 would be enough. Chances of this happening-0%.

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04-23-18 09:08AM
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fresca
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Instead of round robins the slams could be 16 or 24 team double knock outs to encourage new blood - winner and second prize reduced .. proceeds distributed to 16 teams to help with hotel and air .. augmented by feds contributing $400,000 per yr funded by eliminating $100,000 / for 2 years to Scott and brier winners ... kinda levels playing field ..

8 teams from high career points , 3 alternating junior teams , 1 invited former champions .. Stoughton .. Martin, Howard , Duguid , Trulsen , ... 4 teams from the provinces on rotating basis determined by mini spiel playoffs ... preference to 4 players same provincial residence .. with $200 entry fee / team , winner take all for travel expenses to slam event ..

No brainer .. odd I didn’t think of that myself

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04-23-18 10:28AM
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curlky
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Can someone post a link to the actual rule about residency that applies now, or the actual text in this thread. I always here the debate, but have never read the actual rule.

Is this the latest and greatest rule in all of its detail? Do they ever define residency?

Last edited by curlky on 04-23-18 at 10:31AM

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04-23-18 11:50AM
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Marc Bernard
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From a couple of years ago, but presumably still valid:

http://www.curling.ca/wp-content/bl...licy2016-17.pdf

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04-23-18 12:02PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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The gist

An individual claiming to be a bona fide resi
dent of the specific curling province/territory
whose playdown structure he or she wishes to enter, must be able to provide a minimum
of three of the following four items to the Member Association (if requested):
**
Current Drivers License (or valid travel picture ID) from that province/territory
**
Current Health Care Card from that province/territory
**
Letter from employer confirming employment within the province/territory
**
Statement from landlord (if renting) or bank (if owned) confirming residency w
ithin
the province/territory

a copy of a property tax invoice for non
-mortgaged
property is also adequate. Recommend a statutory declaration be obtained.


IN ADDITION TO PROVIDING THE ABOVE DOCUMENTATION AN INDIVIDUAL
MUST SPEND THE MAJORITY OF THEIR NON-COMPETE TIME IN THE
PROVINCE/TERRITORY IN WHICH THEY ARE CLAIMING TO BE A BONA FIDE
RESIDENT.




Any predictions as to which association will be first to have the "rocks" to enforce this? Reading the student section makes it very precarious for team Homan with 2 from AB and 2 from from ON. Especially must reside most of the year in said province.

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04-23-18 04:56PM
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jamcan
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interesting comments but probably probably better suited for a discussion thread of the parachuting rule. meanwhile, could those who havent please post their answers to the 2 questions raised at the start of the thread? thanks.

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04-23-18 07:15PM
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curlky
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What does a team have to pay now to enter a Brier/Scotties/Roar? Without that answer it is hard for me to give a proper answer.

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04-23-18 07:27PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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The provincial dues, club membership, and hours of practice,1000's in hotels, air and travel expenses, all in hopes to represent their province at the brier / scotties

Answer would be 1000's

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04-23-18 07:46PM
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curlky
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
The provincial dues, club membership, and hours of practice,1000's in hotels, air and travel expenses, all in hopes to represent their province at the brier / scotties

Answer would be 1000's



While that is an answer, it is not a good one. Lets say that you wanted to play in the US Club CHampionships. Here is what it would cost you.

$45 per year USA Curling Dues
$5-$20 regional association dues (similar to provincial dues in Canada)
$200-$400 per team to play in your regional playdowns
~$600 per team to play in the National Club Championships.

I would like to know what types of similar fees need to be paid to enter an event such as teh Brier where this free agent policy applies.

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04-23-18 08:03PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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quote:
Originally posted by curlky


While that is an answer, it is not a good one. Lets say that you wanted to play in the US Club CHampionships. Here is what it would cost you.

$45 per year USA Curling Dues
$5-$20 regional association dues (similar to provincial dues in Canada)
$200-$400 per team to play in your regional playdowns
~$600 per team to play in the National Club Championships.

I would like to know what types of similar fees need to be paid to enter an event such as teh Brier where this free agent policy applies.




5-600 each player to be a full member of the club=2000-2400
500 per team to join super league of said club
100 each player to partake in provincial playdowns 400

3300 to play locally

Depending on where you live but using eastern Canada as the example, if you play 3-4 local spiels at 500-1000 entry fees, then 3-4 Ontario-Quebec spiels at 7-1000 entry plus flights hotels etc 10k
Total one season one team 15000

Double that if you think you want to make the slams.

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Curling Scores

M: Canad Inns Mixed Doubles Championship
Portage la Prairie, MB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Mon, Nov 19 -- 12:00pm CT
Lawes/Morris
Sahaidak/Lott

3rd
Click Event to Show Scoreboard
M: Canad Inns Mixed Doubles Championship
M: Red Deer Curling Classic
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M: Le Gruyere AOP European Curling Championships
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: Sherwood Park U21 Junior Womens Bonspiel
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