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averagecurler
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 21

quote:
Originally posted by curlky
From my pov, it looks like Corey and Sarah have a lot different opinions on shots called. I dont think they hate each other, but more that they clearly have different plans, and either Corey is asking for too much input, or Sarah is providing too much input.things up to the elite level.


If I recall correctly Sarah and Corey each skipped their own teams for many years in juniors before being put together.

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Old Post 02-16-17 10:17PM
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MCC_PE
Hitting Paint

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 136

Talking

quote:
Originally posted by AlanMacNeill


However, if he wins the Page 1v2 game, the Final is single elimination...regardless of if his opponent is a team he's beaten twice already in this tournament (as they would certainly be under this scenario)




It's far from certain that Shuster, if he wins the Page 1v2 game, would face a team he's beaten twice already in this tournament. That would only be the case if Clark then wins the semifinal, which I'm certain both Birr and Brown would argue is not a certainty.

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Old Post 02-17-17 08:10AM
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curlky
Swing Artist

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 488

quote:
Originally posted by averagecurler


If I recall correctly Sarah and Corey each skipped their own teams for many years in juniors before being put together.



That is true, but skipping their own junior team was not what I Think leads to veteran experience. I know this is not true, but I was wondering if Sarah ever played lead for someone like Erika or Cassie. I believe that what is going on with Korey Dropkin is a better developmental path. He was a successful junior skip, but not is playing second for a very veteran and successful skip in McCormick. He can gain experience on how veterans run a team. Sure the Christensen team have a coach to help, but its the in play things that are only learned through experience and knowledge that I worry they are missing.

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Old Post 02-17-17 09:43AM
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BumperUp
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 15

I agree with you that getting experience with a veteran skip can really help players develop right out of juniors. Every great curler I can think of went down that road. However, neither of the names you mentioned are part of the HPP, and most of the women in the HPP were junior skips before they entered the program.

There are far fewer players on the women's side and the creation of the HPP seems to have caused more veteran women players to leave the game, probably because winning nationals no longer gets you to worlds. You need veteran skips to play if they are going to mentor younger players. That just isn't happening, and they aren't joining the HPP. I'm glad to see Cassie's team back on the ice, and I would love to see them win even if it doesn't get them to worlds.

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Old Post 02-17-17 10:23AM
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biterbar
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 549

Back in 2013 The standings at Junior Nationals were:

Christensen 8-1
Solheim 7-2
S. Anderson 7-2
Haag 7-2

Christensen beat Solheim in the 1-2, Haag beat Anderson in the 3-4, Solheim beat Haag in the semi and defeated Christensen to win it.

This 8-7 loss prevented Christensen from winning 5 straight as she had won the year before and three after this, the last 2 with Sarah Anderson at vice. Last year they won the Silver at Worlds.

This team may have had some issues this week, but I truly believe they will be the team of the near future, maybe 2018.

__________________
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire"-Winston Churchill

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Old Post 02-17-17 10:47AM
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FrenchToastGuy
Knee-Slider

Registered: Feb 2017
Location:
Posts: 1

I don't care for this play down system. The women's side is determined entirely by Cassie, who can't go to worlds. Something's screwed up when our playdown system is off-the-ice eliminating players like Cassie and Pete before a playoff rock is thrown. I thought the idea was to stop a club team from going to worlds, in practice its elimatating our best players.

And it's a joke that Clark isn't funded. He's already won 2 nationals, you can't say he's not a top 3 team.

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Old Post 02-17-17 02:58PM
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curlky
Swing Artist

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 488

quote:
Originally posted by FrenchToastGuy
I don't care for this play down system. The women's side is determined entirely by Cassie, who can't go to worlds. Something's screwed up when our playdown system is off-the-ice eliminating players like Cassie and Pete before a playoff rock is thrown.


The US process to become team USA for worlds is a season long qualifier rather than a single event

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Old Post 02-17-17 04:05PM
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misty1
Supreme Champion!

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 5010

so with birr winning the semi i assume this means shuster goes to worlds.

what about the women. is it a winner goes to worlds situation or has roth already got there?

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Old Post 02-18-17 09:58AM
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Phil_D
Drawmaster

Registered: May 2014
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 584

quote:
Originally posted by misty1
so with birr winning the semi i assume this means shuster goes to worlds.

what about the women. is it a winner goes to worlds situation or has roth already got there?



Roth already has the berth, same as Shuster.

__________________
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Co-host of the NerdCurl podcast & occasional blogger.

http://www.nerdcurl.com

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Old Post 02-18-17 10:12AM
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Holtie22
Knee-Slider

Registered: Feb 2017
Location:
Posts: 1

So what is the point of playing today's games? Do we really want to send a team to World's that may not be the "National Champion"? The finals are meaningless.

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Old Post 02-18-17 10:54AM
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TNH
Hitting Paint

Registered: May 2011
Location:
Posts: 132

The CF games are still on??

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Old Post 02-18-17 11:10AM
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Three
Swing Artist

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 241

quote:
Originally posted by TNH
The CF games are still on??



Need to know who is going to the life changing Champions Cup....just what kids dream about as they start out as Little Rockers.

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Old Post 02-18-17 11:35AM
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misty1
Supreme Champion!

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 5010

quote:
Originally posted by Phil_D


Roth already has the berth, same as Shuster.



thanks.

well that sucks then. was hoping for some finals that had that on the line

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Old Post 02-18-17 11:41AM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2569

I sincerely hope that the teams are "keeping their eyes on the prize". I think that maybe we curling fans should keep our eyes on prize as well.

The prize? It's NOT going to Worlds. That's old thinking. The prize...the only prize these days...is a berth at the Olympic Trials. Getting to the Olympics is everything in today's curling.

So Birr has a ton to play for today. Being outside the HPP, their only hope of getting an invite to Omaha is to win gold. How big was yesterday's loss for Brady? To quote President Trump, "Huge!" Brady could have locked a spot in Omaha if he did back-to-back gold or even back-to-back Finals. Will back-to-back medals get them an invite? Depends on how Birr does today and early next year.

Ben Tucker

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Old Post 02-18-17 12:02PM
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misty1
Supreme Champion!

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 5010

quote:
Originally posted by tuck
I sincerely hope that the teams are "keeping their eyes on the prize". I think that maybe we curling fans should keep our eyes on prize as well.

The prize? It's NOT going to Worlds. That's old thinking. The prize...the only prize these days...is a berth at the Olympic Trials. Getting to the Olympics is everything in today's curling.

So Birr has a ton to play for today. Being outside the HPP, their only hope of getting an invite to Omaha is to win gold. How big was yesterday's loss for Brady? To quote President Trump, "Huge!" Brady could have locked a spot in Omaha if he did back-to-back gold or even back-to-back Finals. Will back-to-back medals get them an invite? Depends on how Birr does today and early next year.

Ben Tucker



you are right in that there's something to play for.

but i would have just liked to see finals that wouyl,d have determined the world rep, not have had the world rep decided going in.

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Old Post 02-18-17 01:45PM
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guido
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 851

USA curling SUCKS! Why even have a competition?? What a bunch of no brains

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Old Post 02-18-17 06:22PM
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AK267
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 1621

I'm guessing Debbie McCormick and Pottinger are retired?

__________________
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Old Post 02-18-17 11:08PM
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Three
Swing Artist

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 241

So Sinclair beats Roth in the round robin and then again in the finals. Anybody who thinks that Curling USA has created a good system to identify their best representative to send to the World's is mistaken.

Forget about the curlers and think about the fans. If you want to grow the game fan engagement is important. How many casual fans would even watch a meaningless final (sorry Tuck, you can spin it any way you want but that's what they were to everybody except die-hard fans.) No television network would ever put up with this.

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Old Post 02-19-17 12:31AM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2569

You are right, Three. I can "spin" that the Finals were important (especially for the non-HPP Birr team) when it comes to the most important goal...a spot in the Olympic Trials. I cannot, however, spin away my dislike for the system. I have loudly and vigorously argued against this system since its inception.

At the beginning of this very forum thread, I predicted that Sinclair would beat Roth in the Final, but (due to less points) Roth would go to Worlds. This lead in points came when Roth cashed in Switzerland while Sinclair was playing for no points in the Continental Cup. I also predicted that such an outcome would begin an in depth discussion of how points are allotted and how we designate our World teams.

Ben Tucker

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Old Post 02-19-17 01:16AM
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nomadicsweeper
Knee-Slider

Registered: Dec 2015
Location:
Posts: 4

then perhaps it would be best if mccormick did not get an invite to the olympic trials. he certainly didn't earn it at nationals.... and his rink has much to learn about how to handle losses. hats off to all the teams that made the playoffs...true sportsmen and sportswomen.

Last edited by nomadicsweeper on 02-19-17 at 08:48AM

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Old Post 02-19-17 08:44AM
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IMWright
Hitting Paint

Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 183

Two of the top three mens teams are non-HPP teams.

I'm still failing to see a significant difference between teams which are funded and showered with opportunities to go here, there, and the like, and teams which are not, especially at the US Nationals, year after year.

"But this has forced non-HPP teams to play more, and so they have improved" is the only excuse... reason... offered.

Seems there could be a better use of funds...

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Old Post 02-19-17 09:34AM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2569

I'll start a Nationals Fallout thread to continue the discussion. This thread is getting unwieldy is its broad and growing areas of insights. Then this thread can go back to its basics; congratulating the winners and the hosts and patting Tuck on the back (Biterbar?).

I would like to add, however, that my humble opinion is that Heater McCormick is true curling talent in his unique way. I can't explain exactly how the HPP has failed to bring out the best in Heath. I have some theories, but that's all.

Ben Tucker

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Old Post 02-19-17 09:49AM
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