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W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
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Draw: W5 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00am CT
Giroux Final
Schapman (7) Watch Live Curling!
Johnson 10  Final
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Berg Final
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Pekowitz 11  Final
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: Canadian Wheelchair Championship
Moose Jaw, SK
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Draw: 7 -- Wed, Mar 27 -- 6:30pm MT
AB (Kuchelyma) Final
NB (Fitzgerald) (8)
AB (Purvis) Final
ON (Rees) 10  (7)
SK (Dash) Final
MB (Thiessen) (EE)
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QC (Marquis) Final
NL (Carroll) (8)
M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
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Draw: M5 -- Wed, Mar 27 -- 7:00pm CT
Fitzgerald Final
Guentzel (10) Watch Live Curling!
Cenzalli Final
Rose (10) Watch Live Curling!
Church Final
Lannoye (10) Watch Live Curling!
Hebert Final
Brenden (9) Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
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Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
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Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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02-13-16 08:09PM
southerncurler is offline Click Here to See the Profile for southerncurler Find more posts by southerncurler Add southerncurler to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
southerncurler
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Jan 2015
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Posts: 234

Worst case scenario for the USCA??

Clark and Shuster are clearly the two best US men's teams; however, the team that lost three times to the other is going to worlds.

It's time to make OOM points only part of the equation in terms of being named Team USA

Last edited by southerncurler on 02-13-16 at 08:12PM

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02-13-16 08:37PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Mar 2013
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bitter taste

outsider looking in

Agree the team that gets all the funding to travel and earn the points bought and paid for by the usca, should still have to win the championship game. It's obvious this week the best team is not going to worlds. They only good side is that next year Clark will or should get some funding and can return the favor.

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02-13-16 08:40PM
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misty1
Supreme Champion!

 

Registered: Sep 2011
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congrats to brady.

this is just wrong though. he beat shuster 3 times, he should be going. not only did he beat shuster 2 of those games were not even remotely close.

i dont see how anyone can justify shuster going to worlds over clark after whats transpired here

i agree with southerncurler that OOM points should only be part of it.

Last edited by misty1 on 02-13-16 at 08:42PM

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02-13-16 09:11PM
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southerncurler
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Registered: Jan 2015
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The rule change should be pretty simple in my eyes.

After OOM points from the week the US Nationals are played are calculated:

If only one team from the top 50 OOM made the top 4, they are the world rep
If more than one team from the OOM top 50 made the top 4, the highest finisher from the top 50 is the world rep.
If no team from the Top 50 made the top 4 the winner of the US Nationals is the world rep.

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02-13-16 09:27PM
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Alice
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Registered: Feb 2012
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At least one hopes Team Shuster won't wear the US "National Champion" patches for the coming year and instead will just wear the "Team USA" HPP bought and paid for insignia. I hope and expect that backdoor ticket to Worlds will make them earn their spot by doing the best they ever have done at Worlds. All our teams knew the stacked deck of cards the HPP program gave them at nationals this year.... but geez... what Team Clark had to do to get to nationals and all this week is just not in the spirit of curling. A sad day for us all.

May the best men's and women's teams win on the ice at Worlds.

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02-13-16 10:38PM
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AK267
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Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA
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Women's side, best team won it outright....have no problem seeing them at the worlds.

Men's side, Shuster lost to Clark three times (including finals) yet goes to worlds. Wonder how USCA spins this one.

__________________
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02-13-16 11:10PM
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ref_hater
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 18

Congratulations to Brady and team!

Quite a dominating performance all week. I love the finesse that they executed all week. Brady forced John to throw draws and he wasn't able to execute at a high enough level. Team Shuster seemed to lose composure early in the championship game. I hope they can recover in time to play well together at worlds. If not, I suspect things could finish ugly with a team makeover next year...

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02-14-16 12:01AM
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SmokeyJoe
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Apr 2006
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Congratulations to Team Clark

They have mastered the directional sweeping technique without the advantage of coaching and funding from the HPP.

They were able to attain early leads and then protect them with skillful tick shots from Tilker, and peel shots from Hufman. Persinger and Clark were awesome.

Best wishes to Team Shuster at the Worlds. Without funding from the HPP, they were able to overcome the odds and represent the US at the Worlds last year. They will need to earn valuable Olympic qualifying points this year. I believe that they will perform well.

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02-14-16 11:28AM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613

My impressions of The Final for the few that might be interested. I'm going to start by heaping praise on the silver medalists; for there is much to praise. Later I hope to share some thoughts on the game and on the winners and on the sweeping.

Face Team earned the right to go to Worlds according to the process we now use. It's not the process that I would use, but they dominated the current process. Dominated? Oh, yes. By any measure. They have been the dominate team all year and all of last year and pose a large threat to dominate next year as well.

Judge them not by the three games against Brady. Look at the linescores for their other games. Watch and see with your own eyes how overpowering they have become. One hiccup against Dropkin and that's it. (That Junior team seems to always play great against Face. It's kind of maddening. I wish they'd play that way every game. Their talent really shows when they are playing Face Team)

During the Final, I was extremely impressed by the imaginative placements of the opening rocks. Once well behind, they abandoned the usual "steal 1 by having it in the fourfoot and guarded". They switched to "make Brady throw his hammer against 3 and pray for him to miss an easy shot". I've seen this and I've used this...but only in the last end. Switching to it early was very impressive to me.

Some of the calls were amazingly impressive. They hit staggered corners so their shooter and another of their own rocks that was a corner would both go to the centerline. Bold. Imaginative. Lots of bold and imaginative calls. I also liked drawing for the point in an empty house when far behind.

I'm so impressed that Hammy doesn't overthrow his peels and pitch them wide anymore. I'm so impressed that TyGer has improved his power game and vastly improved his consistency. Is it because Face demands a certain work ethic? Is it because Face is not only our best skip, but our best coach as well? I have no idea, but every curler that plays for John gets better. I doubt that it is a coincidence.

Did the team lose heart early in the Finals? Yes. Put yourself in their curling shoes for a minute. I'll use an exaggeration to make the point: Imagine you are playing a game you really want to win. The opposition second in the first end has a hack weight hit. He throws it wide and heavy. With good Directional Sweeping, he makes it on the nose. Your team makes a shot, so their second has the same shot. This time he is light and tight. Good directional sweeping again and he makes it perfectly. 2 rocks into his game and he's thrown them both badly...yet he sits at 100%. Frustrating? Lose heart? Know that you're giving up a big edge because you don't own that type of broom? Put yourself in their curling shoes.

I just deleted a big paragraph giving props to Team Clark, but that can wait for its own post.

Class. Face Team handled the Finals with class. TESN missed some of the conversation and theorized that tensions were rising. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Face didn't shake after getting his deuce in the 8th because he wanted the B Bunch to celebrate after Brady making a nice shot. That's the spirit of curling. In the interviews, TyGer and Face mention the sweeping, but never say anything except that Team Clark are worthy champions.

How will this Final effect Face Team at Worlds? It won't. I like all of these guys, but their egos can barely fit into a hockey arena. In curling at the top levels, ego is good...absolutely necessary. They will suspect that, if there was no sweeping edge earned by Clark, they were the best team in Jacksonville. They will have no doubts in their minds that they should be the USA team at Worlds. Because of this, I predict they will make the playoffs.

So, while the linescore obviously disagrees with me, I was impressed with Team USA. Very impressed. Face, Tyger, Hammy and Lance...good luck at Worlds. I have no doubt that you will represent us very well.

Ben Tucker

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02-14-16 12:44PM
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Curlrock
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Feb 2011
Location:
Posts: 96

Thanks for the great post Tuck. Unfortunately for me it leaves more questions than answers. Maybe that was your intent.

I understand directional sweeping, but what is that the Clark team did this week that other teams were incapable of? Was it technique or equipment or both.? Furthermore, what may the greatest indictment of the HP program, they let a non HP team come to tournament more prepared than their own team.

Am I missing something that has already been discussed?

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02-14-16 12:47PM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613

Hail to the champs!

With or without Broomgate II, this is an excellent team. Brady has long been one of our best skips. He has titles and titles and been at or near the top for exactly a decade now. Pooh Persinger I obviously misjudged. Brady has always had ultimate respect for him. Until this week, I'd never seen him be truly great. On the other hand, I've always liked what Phillip "Charlie Manson Eyes" Tilker brings to a team. When he really wants to win, it shows. His stats aren't always the best stats in the field, but I'd bet that his stats on difficult shots and his stats in the pressure ends tower above most.

If you look back over the WCT results for the last two years, the B Bunch has some impressive wins. This year wasn't off to a good start. Then disaster struck. Then disaster turned into gold.

Props to the HPProgram for releasing Colin Hufman to join the team. They didn't have to do that. Carrying a 9th player for their three teams would have been totally understandable. Yet they looked beyond themselves and considered what was right for Colin. It was the right thing to do. Stealing away Sean Beighton midseason was a disaster for the B Bunch. Props to Derek Brown for not letting Colin waste away on the bench.

(and props to ref_hater for coming back here to tip his hat to team that he questioned before Nationals. I still think his comments on Brady's strategy bordered on ridiculous, but an open discussion is more interesting than no discussion)

Since Colin joined, this is World caliber team. Sweeping rules as they are or new sweeping rules, they will contend. Do not make the mistake of crediting only the sweeping. This was a very strong team coming on before the sweeping edge...they'll be a very strong team if the edge goes away. Smart and talented and hard working and good chemistry has always been the recipe for success. This team has all the ingredients.

Ben Tucker
(sometime here somebody should post "Holy Buckets, Tuck called it! Tuck, you The Man)

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02-14-16 12:48PM
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seanb22
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 9

First off, congratulations to Team Clark. They played extremely well all week, easily the best I've seen Colin or Greg curl...ever.

Second, from the perspective of a competing athlete, every single team in the field had access to whatever brooms they desired and ample amount of time to figure out what works and what doesn't with this new one sweeper craze.

Anyone complaining about how Team Clark's team swept or or suggesting it's an advantage...it's not. Every team could have done what Brady's team was doing. Stop talking about it.

Finally- those people complaining about Brady's team not being the world rep...please stop. They, as well as every other team not playing on team Shuster knew full well going into the nationals(honestly before the nationals registration deadline in November) that going to worlds was a slim, if not impossible, proposition. Shuster's team killed it. In my opinion they put together the best
WCT season in US curling history. Regardless of how they were formed(HPP vs Non-HPP), the HPP staff clearly saw the need to keep that team intact and it has paid huge dividends so far.

=====Positive Things=====
Shuster is currently 12th in OOM. 10 of those 12 teams are Canadian with the 1 outlier being the reigning world champions Niklas Edin.
Guess how many Canadian teams go to the Worlds and Olympics? 1...Bronze medal anyone? I hope so in about a month and a half.

Brady's team was playing to get OOM points, the only concrete criteria for qualifying for the Olympic Trials. They got a bunch and improved to 33rd in the WCT standings and 3rd in the country behind team Brown and Shuster. Target is 15th or better for every team over the next season.

=====Side Effects=====
Every Playoff game was a blowout. 1-2, 3-4, SF and F were all big blowouts. Was this a side-effect of the new format? Hard to tell but it was unfortunate.

Statistics were absurdely high...the Lead position had the lowest stats of any position...what the heck? Board and hack weight hits were nearly impossible to miss(I know because I threw some terrible ones and made perfect 5/5s).

Teams rooting for other teams to lose. I did it, I know other teams did it...no way any team in the field wanted my team or Shuster's team making it to the playoffs.

=====Things to ponder=====

Do I think the current world team selection process is perfect...no.

Do I think the old(national champion goes to worlds) world team selection process was perfect before...I used to BUT then we(the USA) almost didn't qualify for the olympics and my mind changed. Men still haven't won a medal since I was in juniors...that was a long time ago.

Do I think the nationals should still be called the nationals? Also hard to tell, it's a lot more like the PGA Tour championship...It's good to win and has a lot of points but it doesn't give you the FedEx Cup(World Championship Berth) if you haven't already had a good season.

Is there still a national championship? I think so, it just starts in September and goes through February.

Sean Beighton

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02-14-16 01:27PM
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Phil_D
Drawmaster

 

Registered: May 2014
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 629

quote:
Originally posted by seanb22
First off, congratulations to Team Clark. They played extremely well all week, easily the best I've seen Colin or Greg curl...ever.

Second, from the perspective of a competing athlete, every single team in the field had access to whatever brooms they desired and ample amount of time to figure out what works and what doesn't with this new one sweeper craze.

Anyone complaining about how Team Clark's team swept or or suggesting it's an advantage...it's not. Every team could have done what Brady's team was doing. Stop talking about it.

Finally- those people complaining about Brady's team not being the world rep...please stop. They, as well as every other team not playing on team Shuster knew full well going into the nationals(honestly before the nationals registration deadline in November) that going to worlds was a slim, if not impossible, proposition. Shuster's team killed it. In my opinion they put together the best
WCT season in US curling history. Regardless of how they were formed(HPP vs Non-HPP), the HPP staff clearly saw the need to keep that team intact and it has paid huge dividends so far.

=====Positive Things=====
Shuster is currently 12th in OOM. 10 of those 12 teams are Canadian with the 1 outlier being the reigning world champions Niklas Edin.
Guess how many Canadian teams go to the Worlds and Olympics? 1...Bronze medal anyone? I hope so in about a month and a half.

Brady's team was playing to get OOM points, the only concrete criteria for qualifying for the Olympic Trials. They got a bunch and improved to 33rd in the WCT standings and 3rd in the country behind team Brown and Shuster. Target is 15th or better for every team over the next season.

=====Side Effects=====
Every Playoff game was a blowout. 1-2, 3-4, SF and F were all big blowouts. Was this a side-effect of the new format? Hard to tell but it was unfortunate.

Statistics were absurdely high...the Lead position had the lowest stats of any position...what the heck? Board and hack weight hits were nearly impossible to miss(I know because I threw some terrible ones and made perfect 5/5s).

Teams rooting for other teams to lose. I did it, I know other teams did it...no way any team in the field wanted my team or Shuster's team making it to the playoffs.

=====Things to ponder=====

Do I think the current world team selection process is perfect...no.

Do I think the old(national champion goes to worlds) world team selection process was perfect before...I used to BUT then we(the USA) almost didn't qualify for the olympics and my mind changed. Men still haven't won a medal since I was in juniors...that was a long time ago.

Do I think the nationals should still be called the nationals? Also hard to tell, it's a lot more like the PGA Tour championship...It's good to win and has a lot of points but it doesn't give you the FedEx Cup(World Championship Berth) if you haven't already had a good season.

Is there still a national championship? I think so, it just starts in September and goes through February.

Sean Beighton



Thank you for your insights, Sean. Always good to hear from someone on the "inside," so to speak.

Not that every one else's posts/insights aren't appreciated as well, mind you.

__________________
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Co-host of the NerdCurl podcast & occasional blogger.

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Last edited by Phil_D on 02-14-16 at 03:27PM

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02-14-16 01:39PM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613

Wow. Nice post, Sean. You've gotta quit signing your name, however, while you are major player. I respect it a ton, but I don't recommend it.

Sorry to aggravate Mr. Beighton and continue with the Directional Sweeping discussion, but a question was asked. I'll do my best to answer it, CurlRock, with my limited knowledge.

It is painfully obvious that Team Clark was, by far, the best at using this technique. Was it the equipment or the methods? The answer is mostly equipment...but also that they studied it and practiced it. I don't think I'm totally guessing here. I'm also thinking that Team Brown (of which Sean is a member) was pretty good at it as well and had obviously given it some thought.

From youtube and watching and reading, the choice of broom seems to be a critical first step and the B Bunch was the only team to do it correctly. Hair brooms can replicate the effects of the Hardline brooms, but some are way better than others. Short hair is key. Coarse hair is key.

Then applying the brooms with the right technique is important, but everybody was smart and figuring that out quickly. A 45 degree stroke seemed best. Cornering is not important. Finally, teams that practiced the technique so they'd know when and how much to use seemed critical. Some teams messed up as many shots as they helped. Brady was practically flawless.

So does Broomgate 2 mean that this National Title comes with an asterisk? Sean is right on. Heck no. This was not some longshot team from nowhere. They may have won even without the sweeping edge. That they discovered an edge and worked hard at perfecting it doesn't tarnish the gold in any way. I predict that the WCF will ban most of this very soon. I further predict that Team Clark will continue to have great success with or without Directional Sweeping. They are simply a really good, really smart and really unified team. Did you see them throw? How many times were they off on the weight? It seems like NEVER to me.

Ben Tucker

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02-14-16 03:59PM
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pal
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 11

Brady's team was the best all week.

I hope the WCF does not ban hair, and reverses their decision on the hardline brooms. Every team was sweeping more and the ice held up just fine.

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02-14-16 04:23PM
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peglegg
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 101

Great question -- why was a Non HPP team all over the hair effect and the HPP teams late to the game on the hair broom effect? Further indictment of misguided leadership and coaching.

Knowing Face and Ty - they will be ready for whatever the rules allow at Worlds whether the HPP is on board or not.

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Curling Scores

W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
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Draw: W5 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00am CT
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Fort Smith, NT
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