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| 04-06-13 12:56AM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
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Posts: 812 |
any chance someone can post play-by-play of last few rocks for those of us in USA with no coverage available?
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| 04-06-13 01:27AM |
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Nine Ender
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2009
Location:
Posts: 338 |
quote:
Originally posted by jhcurl
There was an earlier post that Canada had 450 of the top 500 teams in the World. So, if that is the case, why does Canada not win the Worlds (men and women) each and every year? How does this team from Canada finish 4th? Are they not top 100 in Canada and therefore the World? Am I missing something? Are not Howard, Stoughton, Koe, Jacobs, Jones, Homan, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, the top 20, 30, 40 teams in the World? Why would not all of them win the World and Olympics every year?
Norberg won 3 Worlds and 2 Olympics. How did that happen?
JH
yep, still Friday night and inquiring minds want to know.
PPS there are NO opinions in there, just QUESTIONS. Anxiously awaiting to be provided with curling knowledge.
Because each country gets only one entry, which means there are 11 other teams to compete with. Those odds work against you every year. And even in weak years there are usually at least 2-3 strong teams from other countries. Its simple math really.
Which makes Canada's run in previous men's incredible really.
Guys like Howard and Middaugh are almost perfect at Men's worlds despite the odds working against them to win even 1/2 the events. From your list, Howard/Stoughton have steller records at worlds and Koe won his one trip but is unable to win Alberta other years.
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| 04-06-13 01:58AM |
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Nine Ender
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Registered: Feb 2009
Location:
Posts: 338 |
quote:
Originally posted by misty1
what I dont get is why it even matters the depth canada has and why certain things like that have creeped into this forum.
yes canada's depth is the greatest, no one is arguing that
what I dont understand is what this is building to. Surely you people are not trying to suggest that canada should have more than one entry.
No, its just people stating the reality in Canada to posters who are trying to suggest the depth isn't there. Look, I'm just a decent club curler ( maybe better then that years ago ) but I've played several World champions in competition. When you are around talent everyone's game and knowledge gets better. We are lucky to get so many quality games so easily locally.
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| 04-06-13 04:21AM |
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murphyj87
Swing Artist
Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 207 |
Canadian Curling
According to the CCA and WCF, there are 1,500,000 curlers in the world, and 1,200,000 of them are in Canada. When you have 80% of the curlers in the world, it is hard to suggest that there is not exceptional depth in Canada.
Sweden had some control most of the game. The Scottish back end (particuarly Brewster, but Murdoch too) had a bad case of the wide, narrow, heavy, and lights much of the middle of the game, but a missed shot by Edin in 9 led to a Scottish steal of 1 (almost 2) and 5-5 coming home. Sweden ticked early in 10 but Scotland managed to be lying 2 under cover (1 biting the back left four, 1 in the left eight), and Edin pretty well put it on the pin for the win.
Last edited by murphyj87 on 04-06-13 at 04:31AM
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| 04-06-13 08:23AM |
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sternwheeler
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Canoe Cove, PEI
Posts: 411 |
yep not hard to fall asleep aye?
quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Fell asleep while Scotland was being subdued by Sweden.
Looked like Sweden polished off the Scottish curlers at every position but lead.
Edin subdued Mighty Murdoch by 96 to 83 but the real story is where the swedish third eviscerated Tom Terrific (Brewster) by 23 points.
Young Greg also whipped at second.
The Scottish lead, Mr Goodfellow fought his swedish counterpart to a draw.
That said, it looked like it went down to final brick!!!
Was that it? Did Murdoch win the mental battle but couldn't back it up in the physical department? ie. pure shot-making! being out here on the east coast these evening draws are 'really late on t.v." ... looking forward to ou rboys doing battle against Denmark later today.....
Or was it something else?
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| 04-06-13 08:23AM |
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greenroad
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 706 |
quote:
According to the CCA and WCF, there are 1,500,000 curlers in the world, and 1,200,000 of them are in Canada.
And fortunately those 300,000 produce enough good players to make for competitive tourneys. Curling is way past the farce that passes for Women's hockey. Canada having to struggle to win is not something to despair about but rather to rejoice that the sport we gave to the world has reached a state of maturity.
I know, I know, I've heard about the monks playing curling on the canal in Paisley in the 15th century. To me that's just Glasgow pub talk. 
A Canada/Scotland semi this evening certainly would be nice.
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| 04-06-13 09:02AM |
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greenroad
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 706 |
quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Thats gonna be something. All the pressure on Canada, little on the Danes.
Why is there no pressure on the Danes? I doubt they want to play in the bronze-medal game either.
__________________
The tragedy is not in losing; it's in almost winning.
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| 04-06-13 09:20AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
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The game against Denmark today should be a good one...at least I hope it will be. It has alot to live up to after the match last night
I wouldnt se surprised to see Denmark get the win but im expecting Brad and the team to come out renewed and set up a semi with Scotland
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| 04-06-13 09:29AM |
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Unregistered
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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
gut feeling a sweden gold .. scotland silver ..canada bronze
april 4, 2013 8:45 pm prediction - last monday
we enjoyed the game last night .. perhaps canada ( including martin , howard, koe, stoughton, etc ) gamble too much ... you should have an easy shot on your last rock - easy means a draw to the pot like Nicholas did last night ..... a triple raise miss seems to be the turning point in most games .. two in a game and its off with the gloves.... try for the 2 or 3 til 5 rocks left - if it looks ugly - blast the front off ... just an observation .. good luck Northern Ontario ... 3 big games .. shoot the lights out ! - and keep smiling , you guys are doing great
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| 04-06-13 10:50AM |
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Unregistered
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Interesting posts about depth and curling populations outside of Canada.
While arguments can be made pro and con for handpicked vs competition earned national teams, one thing does standout; nations with hand picked teams are not increasing the number of facilities or new curlers.
The secret for having more world and Olympic medals? Quantity increases depth. More curlers means more talent emerges.
Hockey is the perfect example. Once, Canada produced more talent than any other nation and we won everything in sight. Now, because the sport has greater-and growing-participation in more countries, winning a medal isn't a certainty. Which is why it's practically a national crisis when we don't.
The question is; what's best overall for the sport? Obviously its growth. Grow clubs and memberships and in time you'll have winners. Succumb to the siren song of handpicked, over-coached, heavily-funded teams and you may have some success. But in the end you'll be ignoring the real area you need to focus on and your numbers will decline.
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| 04-06-13 11:26AM |
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albetts
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 1120 |
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
Interesting posts about depth and curling populations outside of Canada.
While arguments can be made pro and con for handpicked vs competition earned national teams, one thing does standout; nations with hand picked teams are not increasing the number of facilities or new curlers.
The secret for having more world and Olympic medals? Quantity increases depth. More curlers means more talent emerges.
Hockey is the perfect example. Once, Canada produced more talent than any other nation and we won everything in sight. Now, because the sport has greater-and growing-participation in more countries, winning a medal isn't a certainty. Which is why it's practically a national crisis when we don't.
The question is; what's best overall for the sport? Obviously its growth. Grow clubs and memberships and in time you'll have winners. Succumb to the siren song of handpicked, over-coached, heavily-funded teams and you may have some success. But in the end you'll be ignoring the real area you need to focus on and your numbers will decline.
What an insightful and clever post. I enjoyed reading that very much. Regards
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| 04-06-13 12:08PM |
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greenroad
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 706 |
quote:
While arguments can be made pro and con for handpicked vs competition earned national teams, one thing does standout; nations with hand picked teams are not increasing the number of facilities or new curlers.
We have a well tested system to select our national champion, through the Brier and the Scotties. It encourages the development of teams at the provincial level and is a huge factor in the growth of curling at the grassroots level.
If you think our folks are under-performing at the Worlds imagine our having an "all-star" team selected by the curling bureaucrats, the same gang that gave us the "bronze-medal" game?
Jill Officer would no longer being playing for Queen Jenn; she'd be playing against every other second to be recognized by the selection committee as the best in the country.
Our system works; don't tinker with it. Maybe Rachel Homan and Brad Jacobs are not playing up to what we think is acceptable. That's nothing to do with the system. The problem is them.
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The tragedy is not in losing; it's in almost winning.
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| 04-06-13 12:20PM |
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curlerbroad
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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
I have to wonder if young teams like Jacobs, Homan etc...don't get enough experience playing internationally? When they encounter foreign ice and/or teams,they don't seem to have the mental strength to beat them.
Like ML I fell asleep before the game between Edin & Murdoch finished, but from what I did see, Sweden looked unstoppable and Scotland looked horrible especially Brewster.
Edin plays all over the world, maybe the CCA should be sending the young up and coming teams to play overseas rather than the usual old suspects. JMO, but it looks like Canada is falling apart with the bickering & second guessing. Where is their coach?
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| 04-06-13 12:22PM |
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Unregistered
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I couldn't agree more. While I see both sides of the debate, IMO the best way to select national champions is competition.
The main point I am trying to make is selected teams are a short term solution that has little or no benefit to the future of the game.
While the long term solution might taste bitter at first, in the end it's rewards are far sweeter and longer lasting.
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| 04-06-13 12:40PM |
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Unregistered
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quote:
Originally posted by decade
Any thoughts on the low attendance? 39000 so far (from cca post game stat sheet). In 2005 final attendance was 117000. Even with 5 games left doesn't seem like this will be attained again.
Its Victoria,BC. Weather is great, scenery is tremendous, so much to do is probably the reason for low attendance.
Can u blame them? Don't call is Beautiful British Columbia for nothing.
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| 04-06-13 12:42PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
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You do have to wonder if, at least in some small way sweden's switching to a selection process contributed to anette's decision to retire. No doubt her consistency has fallen but she was still a factor at major competitions, the problem is that since the switch she never got a chance to ptove it again.
right now in sweden they actually have a rather big line up for nationals..i believe 16 teams compete. But thats for the men and you wonder just how long that will continue. Edin and eriksson are a step ahead of everyone else ..how long will those other teams tolerate this if they cant catch up?
an allstar team might seem like a good idea but it might not work. great britain tried that method at the olympics several times and got nothing from it. If you have to much on one team it can all fall apart. The russian hockey team at the 2010 olympics is another example of this
The best way to go is definately a playdown. I cant really see any positive in a selection process. It might get results but the negatives far outway that. What good is having a world championship team if you have almost no one to fall back on when that team retires?.
I think its funny and maybe stupid that a country like sweden, one of the most succesful countries in the world in the sport felt the need to make the change.I think what happened leading up to the 2010 olympics scared them but thats no reason to decide to flip things around
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| 04-06-13 12:59PM |
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greenroad
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 706 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
Edin plays all over the world, maybe the CCA should be sending the young up and coming teams to play overseas rather than the usual old suspects.
That could turn out to be very expensive. And sometimes it's not clear who these "up-and-comers" are. IMO if they can beat the best in Canada they can take on the best other countries have to offer.
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| 04-06-13 01:03PM |
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greenroad
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 706 |
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
Its Victoria,BC. Weather is great, scenery is tremendous, so much to do is probably the reason for low attendance.
Can u blame them? Don't call is Beautiful British Columbia for nothing.
In 2007 attendance at the World's was 184,970. But then there is a reason they call it Deadmonton.
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The tragedy is not in losing; it's in almost winning.
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| 04-06-13 01:46PM |
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peteski
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Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 631 |
quote:
Originally posted by misty1
You do have to wonder if, at least in some small way sweden's switching to a selection process contributed to anette's decision to retire. No doubt her consistency has fallen but she was still a factor at major competitions, the problem is that since the switch she never got a chance to ptove it again.
right now in sweden they actually have a rather big line up for nationals..i believe 16 teams compete. But thats for the men and you wonder just how long that will continue. Edin and eriksson are a step ahead of everyone else ..how long will those other teams tolerate this if they cant catch up?
an allstar team might seem like a good idea but it might not work. great britain tried that method at the olympics several times and got nothing from it. If you have to much on one team it can all fall apart. The russian hockey team at the 2010 olympics is another example of this
The best way to go is definately a playdown. I cant really see any positive in a selection process. It might get results but the negatives far outway that. What good is having a world championship team if you have almost no one to fall back on when that team retires?.
I think its funny and maybe stupid that a country like sweden, one of the most succesful countries in the world in the sport felt the need to make the change.I think what happened leading up to the 2010 olympics scared them but thats no reason to decide to flip things around
While I don't disagree on the main point that Sweden and other countries should have playdown rather than a selection process, I doubt it will negatively effect Swedish curling. They have a pretty strong elite program with their curling academy. I don't know if the total curlers in the country is dwindling, but one would think that, if anything, success on the world stage would increase those numbers.
I think all countries have seen a bit of a decrease in competitive teams due to the Olympics. Even in Canada I always hear talk of spiels having trouble filling up or less teams entering playdowns. The top teams in all countries have had to raise their level to have a hope of the Olympics and those unwilling to put in that sort of commitment are finding it harder and harder to compete.
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| 04-06-13 02:36PM |
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greenroad
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 706 |
Re: Why World Curling Assn?
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
No live coverage from YouTube for the 3-4 playoff. What gives?
If you are in Canada it is blocked because it is on TV.
It's only two ends but Canada is curling better.
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| 04-06-13 02:43PM |
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misty1
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A team like Denmark is up and down. When they are on, as we have seen they are damn good and can beat anyone. But when they are off things can get ugly quickly. When they learn the consistency they will be a top 10 team for sure though
my prediction for how this plays out:
canada def. denmark
semi:
canada def. scotland
bronze:
scotland def. denmark
final:
canada def. sweden
I really think they will do well with a full day of rest
I picked denmark to medal at the start but if things play out the way i think i cant see scotland losing all 3 playoff games.
Last edited by misty1 on 04-06-13 at 02:54PM
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| 04-06-13 02:51PM |
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Unregistered
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Brad Jacobs needs to be a bit more consistent and just do it! Otherwise Denmark will eat him alive.
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| 04-06-13 02:59PM |
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misty1
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On the other hand if denmark does win..and its certainly possible I wouldnt mind seeing them win it all.
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