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12-26-16 10:13AM
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TDR
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Manitoba Scotties - Jan 24-29, 2017 in Charleswood

Now that the field's been set, here's a guess at the seeding:

1 - Jones
2 - Einarson
3 - Englot
4 - Robertson
5 - Birchard
6 - Overton-Clapham
7 - Meilleur
8 - Peterson
9 - Brown
10 - MacKay
11 - Kilgallen
12 - Menard
13 - Armit
14 - Reed
15 - McLean
16 - Briscoe

First 3 were pretty easy, but then there's a pretty even bunch after that.

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12-26-16 11:28AM
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Re: Manitoba Scotties - Jan 24-29, 2017 in Charleswood

quote:
Originally posted by TDR
Now that the field's been set, here's a guess at the seeding:

1 - Jones
2 - Einarson
3 - Englot
4 - Robertson
5 - Birchard
6 - Overton-Clapham
7 - Meilleur
8 - Peterson
9 - Brown
10 - MacKay
11 - Kilgallen
12 - Menard
13 - Armit
14 - Reed
15 - McLean
16 - Briscoe

First 3 were pretty easy, but then there's a pretty even bunch after that.



I think your seeding is pretty fair. Robertson and Birchard can be inter-changed at 4-5, Cathy O is a solid reputational seed vis a vis her vast experience. Brie Meilleur toppled a couple biggies on the circuit.

I think Jones & Einarson surface on playoff weekend although I'm not certain one of them goes slightly sour in the round-robin and has to come out of the 3 or 4 hole. If both are on their games Manitoba comes down to Kerri vs. JJ w/ Englot making some noise. Other than the final - I'm sure the biggest cheers will be for Cathy O - especially if she's able to confront Jones at any point during festivities. JJ usually asks committees to place Cathy in a different group.

First time the Scotties have come back to Winnipeg in many a moon (20 years???) so I suspect Winnipeg crowds will be flocking there to pay homage to the great Jones and what she's done for curling - but just as many who haven't gone to the rural communities (the bastion for the Scotties last 20 years).

BTW - anyone know if the event being held at the Charleswood CC - or did they rent the nearby hockey arena?

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12-26-16 01:12PM
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It's at the Eric Coy Arena, right next to the Charleswood CC: http://www.curlmanitoba.org/scotties#.WGFdSkS-cbw

The Charleswood CC is the host club.

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12-26-16 02:15PM
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quote:
Originally posted by TDR
It's at the Eric Coy Arena, right next to the Charleswood CC: http://www.curlmanitoba.org/scotties#.WGFdSkS-cbw

The Charleswood CC is the host club.



Long time since I curled at old Charleswood w/ aces like Brian Gessner, Percy Morrissette, Old Steve Vance & the billionaire financial whiz - but if memory serves you can park at the Coy Arena and basically walk to the curling club HQ? Yes?

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12-26-16 04:09PM
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Deliverer

M.L. While most Manitoba fans might not remember when the Scotties were last played in The Peg, many still remember vividly when 'the great jones', as you call her, was competing as the overwhelming favorite in the Gimli Scottie Provincials.
Playing against a bunch of school kids who were incapable of winning a game, let alone a couple of ends, she accused one of them of burning a rock. When the kid said she had not, Jones refused to accept her word and actually refused to play on - tapping her toe, and when the embarrassed kid still refused to cave in, Jones demanded that the Director make a decision!!
To make along sad story short, Jones became, hopefully, the only skip in Scotties history to be booed by the fans as she walked off the ice after the game.

A disgraceful, classless act, which at best, no fan in Gimli
will ever forget or forgive.

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12-26-16 04:11PM
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Re: 2017 Scotties crowds

If memory serves the Eric Coy arena doesn't have a ton of seating capacity. Can't remember if it only has planks on one side - or both. Website (city owned) doesn't say!

That said, I suspect Curl Manitoba will do a mild retrofit of this facility - tearing down the hockey boards as such and possibly installing additional supportive seating (lego like bleachers).

There's also an ice-level reception/lounge area where folks can watch the games thru the glass. The other side - where no seats occur will probably be transformed into a mini-media area - obviously Sportsnet's base of operations for the finals and housing up to 15 to 20 other media. There's only 2 papers who cover curling in Winnipeg, there's a sports radio station called TSN1290 and the old guard radio station called CJOB who used to cover all things curling. CBC will also request at least two media spots plus camera availability; as well Global TV & CTV (which is owned by the same company as TSN, Bell Media). Now that I think of it - 20 may not be enough - as the Brandon media will have at least 5 media requests, Portage will have 1 or 2, so will Dauphin, Thompson, Selkirk, Steinbach, Altona, Morden, Winkler, The Pas. Plus there's community cable TV, various blog sites, and space requests from elderly MCA coots to be able to mingle with the media hoards. So maybe 50, not 20 is more like it - although no more than 20 or 25 will ever be there at the same time!

These old barns - built in the 70s transform nicely into mini curling arenas for events like these.

If the Charleswood does it right - I'm sure Winnipeg will get requests to have the Scotties held locally ever 3 years, certainly no longer than 4 years. The transformation is one thing - but if they don't draw well that's another matter!

However, the appetite for ladies curling in Winnipeg is pent up. Jennifer Jones has never won a Manitoba championship (or a national title for that matter) on home soil. I suspect JJ's round-robin morning games will have 90 to 130, afternoon matches w/ JJ 200 to 350 and evening affairs 325 to 500, or more (my guess is capacity is around 650)

Which now begs the question of when Curl Manitoba will bring the Men's championship back to Winnipeg. I'm old enough to remember some of the great Manitoba finals that drew anywhere from 4,000 to 7,500 to the matches. Now, those days are done - that's why the MTS Centre (capacity 15,200) can only be used for Briers, Worlds and Olympic trials. The next biggest arena in Winnipeg is the venerable St. James Civic Centre, a really old brokedown palace that might hold 2,500 to 3,000 with substantial alterations.

One other alternative is the Winnipeg Jets practice facilities on the west edge of town. Its a fresh space, and I'm sure the Curl Manitoba eggheads would like to know what the maximum capacity for 4 or 5 sheets of curling ice would be. I suspect its pretty close to 2,000 - but I could be wrong, maybe 3,000?

Just for the record my favourite Winnipeg Arena memories:

- 1970 - Duguid toppling Lord Larry Taylor with Bob Jenion at 3rd when Taylor failed to lock up the shot rock and had a guard veer slightly off course. Perhaps 6,000 in the house!
- 1973 - Danny Fink winning the Manitoba championship over Clare Deblonde - perhaps 6,500 on hand
- 1976 - Clare Deblonde getting his one and only purple heart - w/ the Finkbeiners on the front end.
- 1982 - Mel Logan slithering by Virden's Murray Duncan on his way to the Brandon Brier, great showing by Vic Peters. Crowds were perhaps only 2,500 to 3,000 for final.
- 1974 - all rural final between Big Country Dan Hyrich (w/ Don Barr chucking last stones & The Runnerup King, Gary Ross, where Ross, needing only a bit of the 8 foot, slid an inch or 2 too long (under ungodly demonic sweeping by Hyrich) and gave Hyrich/Barr a Brier berth. Maybe only 1750 to 2000 in the stands!

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12-26-16 04:21PM
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Re: Deliverer

quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
M.L. While most Manitoba fans might not remember when the Scotties were last played in The Peg, many still remember vividly when 'the great jones', as you call her, was competing as the overwhelming favorite in the Gimli Scottie Provincials.
Playing against a bunch of school kids who were incapable of winning a game, let alone a couple of ends, she accused one of them of burning a rock. When the kid said she had not, Jones refused to accept her word and actually refused to play on - tapping her toe, and when the embarrassed kid still refused to cave in, Jones demanded that the Director make a decision!!
To make along sad story short, Jones became, hopefully, the only skip in Scotties history to be booed by the fans as she walked off the ice after the game.

A disgraceful, classless act, which at best, no fan in Gimli
will ever forget or forgive.



All true. I never saw the scene but many have mentioned it - and I believe at least one print media maven wrote about it. In her early pre-glory days Jones was hyper-competitive and to put it bluntly, a bit rough around the edges. In defense of her (and its not a strong defense I admit) she did not know about the capabilities of the other team. She simply wanted the rules to be enforced - and when the player in question refused to acquiesce JJ put on a major pout show.

I do know one thing - other than the late, great Sandra Schmirler, there's no one else I'd want representing our country with the pride and sportsmanship of Jennifer Jones and her current crew. I think she learned a little lesson from that experience!

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12-26-16 06:07PM
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the incident with the juniors took place in morris, not gimli

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12-26-16 06:37PM
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Jennifer and Team

Since then, I have heard of Team Jones curling somewhere in a spiel and winning in just a few ends. The next sheet over where some juniors Jen had been watching. Since they were done early, the whole Jones team went and helped the juniors, with some strategy, sweeping, delivering....I bet those Juniors were thrilled. Kudo' to Team Jones, they could have just as well went home.

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12-26-16 06:43PM
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Re: Deliverer

quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
M.L. While most Manitoba fans might not remember when the Scotties were last played in The Peg, many still remember vividly when 'the great jones', as you call her, was competing as the overwhelming favorite in the Gimli Scottie Provincials.
Playing against a bunch of school kids who were incapable of winning a game, let alone a couple of ends, she accused one of them of burning a rock. When the kid said she had not, Jones refused to accept her word and actually refused to play on - tapping her toe, and when the embarrassed kid still refused to cave in, Jones demanded that the Director make a decision!!
To make along sad story short, Jones became, hopefully, the only skip in Scotties history to be booed by the fans as she walked off the ice after the game.

A disgraceful, classless act, which at best, no fan in Gimli
will ever forget or forgive.



Those "juniors" were skipped by Kerri Flett, now Einarson...

Bob Weeks' take on the story in 2008:
http://bobweeksoncurling.blogspot.c...e-splainin.html

Paul Wiecek wrote about it the follow year as well:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sp...some_noise.html

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12-26-16 08:24PM
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Re: Re: Deliverer

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


Those "juniors" were skipped by Kerri Flett, now Einarson...

Bob Weeks' take on the story in 2008:
http://bobweeksoncurling.blogspot.c...e-splainin.html

Paul Wiecek wrote about it the follow year as well:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sp...some_noise.html



All true! Although I've never read the Weeks article before. He really takes the strap to Jones - and seems to be unable to stop slapping!

So it was 8 years ago - which makes Flett/Einarson about 22 give or take - certainly not a group of junior hi-skool fawns like some indicate - but a group of hot graduated juniors - out to put Jones scalp on a stick!

JJ was watching the score-board. Difference in shot made was JJ being 7 up or if she had washed off the protest - being 1 or 2 up. That's certainly not fawn country, is it?

btw - there's two things Jennifer Jones will NOT speak about in public. 1. The Gimli Rock-Burning & 2. The Cathy O. Replacement issue. She never has - she never will. Its one thing for Weeks and a few Gimli curling fans to slag her like a stubborn donkey. But it would be exponentially worse if Jones started to build a case around either or both issues!

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12-26-16 08:36PM
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Notes on potential Einarson - Jones Final

Back to curling from rock-burnings and replacement 3rds....

I have now watched Einarson a sufficient number of times and truly believe she's a legitimate threat to The Countess of Dufferin - aka Jones!

Big difference is front end. Jones has massive experience with her two women. They are probably the best front end in women's curling the last decade - perhaps only Ali K & Weagle displaced them for a year or two.

However, there's no more eager and earnest a lead in Manitoba that Kristen McCuish. Liz Fyfe is solid, but really not quite at Jill Officer's level - yet!

Real problem for Einarson is whether Selena Kaatz can stand up to the consistent shot-pelting of Kaitlyn Lawes. If she can't - Jones should be able to control Einarson.

3rd stone - as Gerry can attest is where Jones tends to unravel promising ends built on Dawn & Jill with overly risky and sometimes nonsensical shot decisions. If she continues that trend (and I see no reason she won't) then Kaatz may be able to deal with Lawes - simply on being given more makeable shots (ie. less degree of difficulty)

From a skip's point of view - Einarson is very solid and true with her slide. Her confidence is building - especially that world class win earlier this season - she can handle the best of them, including Jones, Englot or even the Ottawa Ice-Busters (Homan). Jones knows she will not have it easy - as the only shots Jones is still better at are those fine little taps, rubs and angle scrapers. Otherwise the 2 skips are pretty even.

Jones at 42, still plays to a pretty hi level - although there are slightly indications of decline. Einarson - at 30 is powering up and unfazed by JJ's track record. If Lawes was playing 3rd for Einarson and Kaatz for Jones - I'd nearly be willing to award the trophy to Einarson today!

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12-26-16 09:28PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gmay48
the incident with the juniors took place in morris, not gimli


Where there 2 incidents since the press clippings supplied by gerry said Gimli?

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12-27-16 12:54AM
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Re: Re: Re: Deliverer

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


All true! Although I've never read the Weeks article before. He really takes the strap to Jones - and seems to be unable to stop slapping!

So it was 8 years ago - which makes Flett/Einarson about 22 give or take - certainly not a group of junior hi-skool fawns like some indicate - but a group of hot graduated juniors - out to put Jones scalp on a stick!


Actually, according to the Wiecek article linked to, Kerri was 21 in 2009, making her 20 in 2008
("But it remains to this day a going concern for the 21-year-old Flett, who was a freshly graduated junior playing that night in front of the biggest crowd of her curling career and on home ice in Gimli.")

And if Jones is 42 now, that made her 33 in early 2008.
So, Jones at 33, and well established in the curling world, vs. Flett/Einarson at 20 and playing in front of the largest crowd she's ever played in front of.

I didn't see the event, either, of course... but it certainly seems, based on the various descriptions, as well as the facts (like respective age and experience), it certainly seems that Jones very knowingly and deliberately tried to intimidate both her younger, less experienced opponent, and intimidate the official(s), as well, to her own advantage.
That's not being "hyper-competitive" - it's being selfish, disrespectful, immature, and a poor sport.

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12-27-16 05:20AM
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if you burn a rock you better admit it ...

if you deny it , you better strike a deal with the opposition or cave

this story isnt about jennifer itrs about kerri

probably more to this story ... stuff like this usually is the result of something that happened earlier

when there is nothing happening in a sport for a month , someone always drags up a story about the worst plays or ferting in church ..

happynewyear

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12-27-16 08:24AM
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I think we've all done stuff we regret. Although Jones remains mute on the 'burned rock' issue - there's no evidence she has made this a habit of her game post-issue. At 33 - in the early stages of her ascendance to curling supremacy she could only point out what she saw.

I believe two things happened on the ice in Gimli.

1. Jones or Cathy O saw the Flett player touch or kick a guard.

2. The Flett player refused to acknowledge she had kicked or touched the guard.

It should be pointed out no film of the event exists. I put a certain amount of blame on the designated game official - the rules indicate the offending team must report the issue. In this case Jones or Cathy O initiated the complaint. Based on the information the official should never have allowed the complaint to change the course of the end!

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12-27-16 09:00AM
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Wasn't it Einarson who benefited from a burned rock at last years Scotties?? I think it was Kerri that used the rules to her advantage in resetting the house, and that played a big part in her winning the game. If it was Kerri, then she learned how to show no mercy when a stone is touched.

(apologies to Kerri if it was someone else - I couldn't find a video to check)

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12-27-16 09:53AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TNH
Wasn't it Einarson who benefited from a burned rock at last years Scotties?? I think it was Kerri that used the rules to her advantage in resetting the house, and that played a big part in her winning the game. If it was Kerri, then she learned how to show no mercy when a stone is touched.

(apologies to Kerri if it was someone else - I couldn't find a video to check)



I'm not sure either - all I know is Einarson is about the same age as Jennifer when Jones started her ascension to curling greatness. Remember, Jones was somewhat developmentally delayed by her academic decision to pursue a law degree after an exceptional junior career. Then she went to work and put full force on career vs. sports.
Her first foray into the STOH was her least successful - as she shepherded a team of fawns to the national event - the only time Jones would finish out of the medals. Even with a fairly feeble team she was able to torment most of the top teams.. . . . just finishing out of the money!

PS. I erroneously stated Jones finished out of the money in her first foray into the STOH (2002). However, I should point out she fought for a very respectable 8-3 record, in fact a 3-way tie for 2nd place. However, based on results she was seeded 4th and lost the 3-4 game.

Since that blemish she has gone on to play in 11 more Scott championships, winning 5 - and NEVER FINISHING OUT OF THE MEDALS.

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12-27-16 09:53AM
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I'd agree with the seeding for the most part but i think id have birchard, overton clapham and robertson in that order for 4, 5 and 6 seeds.

englot, jones and einarson are the 3 teams we should be looking at to win this. birchard and overton clapham if she gets on a roll are really the only 2 teams i see with any kind of chance of winning this or causing some upsets in the playoffs and making a final appearance.

of the big 3 i'd actually say that einarson is the most likely to miss the playoffs of the 3. she's just so up and down in general. you know whats coming with englot and jones in general but einarson is unpredictable. she could play brilliantly like she has the last 2 events or she could play poorly and struggle to win games.

how the einarson rinks does depends largely on how kerri herself curls.kerri is another one of those skips in the class of epping. they can win matches on their own because they can make every shot and they can make those circus shots look easy. if kerri is off during this week i dont think team einarson makes the playoff.

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12-27-16 10:51AM
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1
I'd agree with the seeding for the most part but i think id have birchard, overton clapham and robertson in that order for 4, 5 and 6 seeds.

englot, jones and einarson are the 3 teams we should be looking at to win this. birchard and overton clapham if she gets on a roll are really the only 2 teams i see with any kind of chance of winning this or causing some upsets in the playoffs and making a final appearance.

of the big 3 i'd actually say that einarson is the most likely to miss the playoffs of the 3. she's just so up and down in general. you know whats coming with englot and jones in general but einarson is unpredictable. she could play brilliantly like she has the last 2 events or she could play poorly and struggle to win games.

how the einarson rinks does depends largely on how kerri herself curls.kerri is another one of those skips in the class of epping. they can win matches on their own because they can make every shot and they can make those circus shots look easy. if kerri is off during this week i dont think team einarson makes the playoff.



Einarson would have to curl something sour to avoid making the page playoffs in Manitoba - usually when Kerri is slightly off Selena K. makes her best outings but when Selena is off (too often immo) Kerri provides great shot-making to her squad - sort of akin to the weak 3rd model deployed by Eve Muirhead. I would agree Einarson finishes off the pace if both her and Selena go sour at the same time. . . . . cuz frankly their front end are not super hi-percentage shooters!

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12-27-16 11:43AM
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Deliverer
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Nov 2016
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Yes, Jones did have an exceptional junior career winning her 1st Manitoba Junior title as a skip in '93 and her second in'94.

I am surprised, however, you failed to note that her current Third, Lawes, had a far superior record. E.G. She won both the Manitoba Provincial AND the Canadian Junior Championship in 2008 and repeated in 2009. Additionally, she won silver and bronze at the Worlds. No comparison really. And jones' junior record does not compare favorably with Homan's either. Check it out. Two Provincials, 1 Canadian Junior Championship, plus 1 Silver at the Worlds.

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12-27-16 12:24PM
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Manitoba Legend
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Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
Yes, Jones did have an exceptional junior career winning her 1st Manitoba Junior title as a skip in '93 and her second in'94.

I am surprised, however, you failed to note that her current Third, Lawes, had a far superior record. E.G. She won both the Manitoba Provincial AND the Canadian Junior Championship in 2008 and repeated in 2009. Additionally, she won silver and bronze at the Worlds. No comparison really. And jones' junior record does not compare favorably with Homan's either. Check it out. Two Provincials, 1 Canadian Junior Championship, plus 1 Silver at the Worlds.



Well, Lawes' storied junior career is the main reason Jones selected her when things with Cathy O started going awry.

Keep in mind - Jones was cheated from competing in the world juniors when the rules changed during Canadian title reign. She lost a playoff to former mate Kelly McKenzie (later Kelly Scott) when given a second chance but in reality Jones remains the only Canadian junior skip ever to be denied a go at worlds.

Sad that none of Jones, Lawes or Homan ever won a world junior championship. If memory serves Lawes came closest - rupturing her final stone in the final or extra end to lose gold.

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12-27-16 12:56PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Mar 2013
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Wrong

"Jones remains the only Canadian junior skip ever to be denied a go at worlds."


No. See 1993 Shawn Adams.

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12-27-16 06:29PM
Deliverer is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Deliverer Click here to Send Deliverer a Private Message Find more posts by Deliverer Add Deliverer to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Deliverer
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Nov 2016
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Posts: 87

DEAD WRONG, AGAIN.

" Jones remains the only Canadian junior skip ever to be denied a go at worlds"

Every single Canadian junior skip who has competed and who subsequently failed to win has been justly denied a go at the Worlds.

Jones was given not one but two chances to beat Mackenzie. She failed. She lost both games.

Cheated? Please M.L. think before you post.

P.S. It was Mackenzie - not McKenzie.

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12-28-16 08:25AM
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fresca
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Oct 2008
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I too was denied / cheated out of a chance to play in the worlds , a few years about half way thru the provincials , but mostly when no one asked me to curl with them ...

you do know about " poetic licence " ? its when u exagerate just a lot to get a reaction


kinda like the media describes the deaths of 96 year old authors and minor tv charactors as "tragic" and millions are "greiving". .... or a silly nanos poll that interviews the same 100 nitwits that have nothing better to do than talk to pollsters and the silly media declares that " canadians want Trudeau to stand up to Trump". .... or that " most canadians favor a new 24 Sussex ".

duh. nobody really wants to hear what nanos and media losers are spewing

happy new year !!! my goal is to sell a lot of water to china and get rich ..

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