Like CurlingZone on Facebook
 
 
   
Welcome to CurlingZone, Guest!   Register Now!    
Already a member?   Login:              Forgot Password?
ProCurlingWear - Look & Play Like a Pro
Disclaimer: CurlingZone does not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any Content posted on any Forums area and you acknowledge that any reliance upon such Content shall be at your sole risk. Any Content placed on any Forums area by users and anonymous posters are the views of the user posting the statement, and do not represent the views of CurlingZone or our partners, advertisers or sponsors. By posting anonymously, you are allowing your IP address to be displayed for identification purposes. CurlingZone reserves the right to remove any post at its discretion without warning or explanation.
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Clappy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 34

Tyler George

Does anyone else think Tyler George should be skipping Team USA? I think he should be skipping and throwing either third or fourth…preferably fourth. IMO Shuster calls a horrible game and it seems like George will call him out on his decisions and basically override him anyhow. One multiple occasions I’ve seen Shuster just ask his team “so what are we going to do here?” Well, you’re the skip…you tell us! Even if you’re not entirely sure, try instilling some confidence in your team and act like a leader. Then if you want, take their input. I just feel like George has more leadership abilities, has more vision when it comes to calling a game, and performs better. Not to mention Shuster has declined drawing to the button, in events that use it as a tie breaker, and given George that duty. I understand that you want the person who is going to give you the best opportunity to win to do that, but I don’t want someone leading my team that is afraid to take that big shot for himself.
If you want my honest opinion, I wouldn’t even have Shuster on the team. I would see if Chris Plys would join, and have either him or George skip and the other play third. Keep Hamilton and Landsteiner.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-20-17 03:07PM
Clappy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Clappy Click here to Send Clappy a Private Message Find more posts by Clappy Add Clappy to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Deez
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 86

Tommy,

Is that you?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-20-17 03:30PM
Deez is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Deez Click here to Send Deez a Private Message Find more posts by Deez Add Deez to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
biterbar
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 554

Re: Tyler George

quote:
Originally posted by Clappy
Does anyone else think Tyler George should be skipping Team USA? I think he should be skipping and throwing either third or fourth…preferably fourth. IMO Shuster calls a horrible game and it seems like George will call him out on his decisions and basically override him anyhow. One multiple occasions I’ve seen Shuster just ask his team “so what are we going to do here?” Well, you’re the skip…you tell us! Even if you’re not entirely sure, try instilling some confidence in your team and act like a leader. Then if you want, take their input. I just feel like George has more leadership abilities, has more vision when it comes to calling a game, and performs better. Not to mention Shuster has declined drawing to the button, in events that use it as a tie breaker, and given George that duty. I understand that you want the person who is going to give you the best opportunity to win to do that, but I don’t want someone leading my team that is afraid to take that big shot for himself.
If you want my honest opinion, I wouldn’t even have Shuster on the team. I would see if Chris Plys would join, and have either him or George skip and the other play third. Keep Hamilton and Landsteiner.



Absolutely not.

__________________
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire"-Winston Churchill

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-20-17 03:37PM
biterbar is offline Click Here to See the Profile for biterbar Click here to Send biterbar a Private Message Find more posts by biterbar Add biterbar to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
SPMFromPCC
Swing Artist

Registered: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 436

LOL

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-20-17 05:09PM
SPMFromPCC is offline Click Here to See the Profile for SPMFromPCC Click here to Send SPMFromPCC a Private Message Find more posts by SPMFromPCC Add SPMFromPCC to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Clappy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 34

I guess you can just reply with one or two words or just lol, but I'm being serious I just don't see Shuster as being that great. Not trolling here, I honestly have not seen anything great from him. If he's the best that the US can offer up as a skip...heaven help us.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-20-17 05:23PM
Clappy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Clappy Click here to Send Clappy a Private Message Find more posts by Clappy Add Clappy to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
MBTuck
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 70

quote:
Originally posted by Clappy
I guess you can just reply with one or two words or just lol, but I'm being serious I just don't see Shuster as being that great. Not trolling here, I honestly have not seen anything great from him. If he's the best that the US can offer up as a skip...heaven help us.


You couldn't be more off. At times i wonder how he is on this team. He is clearly the weakest link. Technically very mediocre. I like the idea of someone like Plys joining this team. Having someone at third who can play all the shots is necessary in today's game and George just doesn't have that in his arsenal.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-20-17 06:47PM
MBTuck is offline Click Here to See the Profile for MBTuck Click here to Send MBTuck a Private Message Find more posts by MBTuck Add MBTuck to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Clappy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 34

I guess I'm more concerned with the shot calling than the shot making.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-20-17 07:16PM
Clappy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Clappy Click here to Send Clappy a Private Message Find more posts by Clappy Add Clappy to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
Drawmaster

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 501

Clappy, I have been very vocal of my thoughts on Shuster, and how he has choked away the last 2 Olympics. But I am going to question a couple of your arguments. First, you are not on that team, so you have no idea how the dynamics work. I see no issue with a skip asking the team, what are we going to do here. Lots of teams/players like to be able to have their voice at least heard on tough calls, but then are OK with whatever the skip decides at that point. Player management is part of skipping, and I see this only as evidence of that. It would be a different situation if Shuster were saying "Holy cow guys, this is hard and I have no idea what to call" but that isn't happening. Empowering your team and making them feel good and appreciated is good coaching in all sports.

Second, the LSD for hammer, while important, is not all that stressful, and is nothing like throwing the hammer in a live game. Being a skip means more than who can throw their draw a bit closer. This part of my statement might hurt my argument, but in the LSD, dont you have to have 2 separate players, each throwing a different turn in those LSD challenges?

Third, what large success has Plys had since juniors? Seems to me that his resume is less accomplished than Shusters, not that he is not a good curler himself.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-20-17 09:31PM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
gonzobob
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Apr 2013
Location: Brooklyn Park, MN
Posts: 30

quote:
Originally posted by curlky
This part of my statement might hurt my argument, but in the LSD, dont you have to have 2 separate players, each throwing a different turn in those LSD challenges?



Yes, the two LSD stones before a game must be thrown by different players and with a different turn (cw and ccw). And all four players are actually required to throw some LSDs throughout a tournament. The minimum number per player depends on the number of round robin games and it is >= 1/3 but <= 1/2 the number of games.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-20-17 10:08PM
gonzobob is offline Click Here to See the Profile for gonzobob Click here to Send gonzobob a Private Message Find more posts by gonzobob Add gonzobob to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Clappy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 34

I completely agree about not being on the team and understanding their dynamics, that kind of why I was asking...I can only give my opinion from my perspective. I do realize that a lot of skips take advice from their team. Koe and Jacobs come to mind. But Shuster does appear to have the "I don't know what to do here, what do you all think" attitude when posed with a real decision.

Last edited by Clappy on 03-20-17 at 10:17PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-20-17 10:15PM
Clappy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Clappy Click here to Send Clappy a Private Message Find more posts by Clappy Add Clappy to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Clappy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 34

quote:
Originally posted by gonzobob


Yes, the two LSD stones before a game must be thrown by different players and with a different turn (cw and ccw). And all four players are actually required to throw some LSDs throughout a tournament. The minimum number per player depends on the number of round robin games and it is >= 1/3 but <= 1/2 the number of games.



I was actually referring to a tie breaker draw to the button, not the draw for hammer.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-20-17 10:16PM
Clappy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Clappy Click here to Send Clappy a Private Message Find more posts by Clappy Add Clappy to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
Drawmaster

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 501

Clappy, you referenced events where this occurred, meaning multiple. What events were you referring to?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-20-17 11:55PM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Grat
Hitting Paint

Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 101

It was the last draw of Curling Night in America. I believe the situation was John had just thrown two hits and Tyler's last rock was a draw, so they had Tyler throw the "skip" stone for the tie-break. Not sure of any other examples.

I don't see the HPP putting Plys back at skip any time soon, they've tried that and must not have liked the results. He had good results with Heater this season, but they under-performed at Nationals.

Not sure what Shuster's got to do. He stays out of the HPP the first year, assembles a team from players who weren't selected for the HPP, earns more points than the hand-picked teams, and wins Nationals.

The next year he earns more points than everyone again, loses to Clark at Nationals, but medals at Worlds, and you can argue about how much of the losses to Brady and co was due to directional sweeping.

He follows that up with a slower season, but wins Nationals again and earns another spot at Worlds.

I think it's hard to argue that he's not the best skip available right now, and I think his involvement of teammate in shot selection is probably a sign of growth and respect more than uncertainty.

Last edited by Grat on 03-21-17 at 12:25AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-21-17 12:23AM
Grat is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Grat Click here to Send Grat a Private Message Find more posts by Grat Add Grat to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Gerry
CZ Founder

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3885

Tyler has been one of the top skips in the USA in the past and longtime rival to clubmate John Shuster. In 2009, they finished first and second in the round robin and eventually met in the final for the right to go to the Worlds and Olympics.

Both have had quite a bit of success at the National level, but Tyler has yet to breakout as skip. Instead of beating each other up, they came together a few years ago to form the current team. You've seen it happen in Canada lots too where top players come together to form an even stronger team.

Shuster has the ability to be one of the top skips in the game and he's really matured the last few seasons. Just seeing him make the draw to win the Nationals this year is a huge step forward in his approach to the game. In the past, Shuster wouldn't trust his teammates to take it home but now he let's them do their job.

He's had issues in the past with game calling (too aggressive to score 2 or even more) but is coming into his own with his game calling and patience. A bronze at last year's Worlds, this team battled on the Grand Slams and will be in contention for a medal again in Edmonton.

__________________
CurlingZone
Everything...Curling!

Please click on our sponsors' banners periodically, as visiting their sites helps keep CurlingZone.com Free!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-21-17 08:19AM
Gerry is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Gerry Click here to Send Gerry a Private Message Visit Gerry's homepage! Find more posts by Gerry Add Gerry to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Clappy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 34

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
Shuster has the ability to be one of the top skips in the game and he's really matured the last few seasons.


I guess I have to concede that he has matured the past few seasons, and he probably is one of the best skips the US has to offer...but one of the top skips in the world??? I think this just shows how far the US still has to come in order to really be competitive on the elite level.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-21-17 09:46AM
Clappy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Clappy Click here to Send Clappy a Private Message Find more posts by Clappy Add Clappy to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Thamilton
Knee-Slider

Registered: Mar 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2

Just because Shuster calls a more complex and yes risky game doesn't make him a bad skip. As all players get better and better it is very hard to win playing a clean and conservative game, look at Brad Jacobs as of late or for a US example Craig Brown. When you play ultra conservative you have to be basically perfect to win at the highest level and you also need to have almost perfect ice.

Shuster likes to play more risk reward and for the most part when he plays against the big boys he competes very well. Let's not forget he won the World Bronze last year, went undefeated at US Nationals and made the playoffs at the last Grand Slam.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-21-17 10:14AM
Thamilton is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Thamilton Click here to Send Thamilton a Private Message Find more posts by Thamilton Add Thamilton to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
AlanMacNeill
Drawmaster

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 908

quote:
Originally posted by Clappy


but one of the top skips in the world???



His Bronze medal at World's a year ago would seem to indicate that maybe, just maybe, he might be exactly that...

And the mark of a good skip is realizing who's the right person to take the right shot....if you just threw two hits, and your Vice threw two good draws, and you need a draw as the tiebreaker, wouldn't it make sense to have the guy who just did exactly that do it?

Had the tiebreaker been some sort of raise double, Shuster would've thrown it...but it wasn't.

Shuster is not only the best we have, he's among the best the World Has, outside of Canada, who only gets to send one team a year to World's anyhow.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-21-17 10:54AM
AlanMacNeill is offline Click Here to See the Profile for AlanMacNeill Click here to Send AlanMacNeill a Private Message Find more posts by AlanMacNeill Add AlanMacNeill to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
westcoveroadie
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2012
Location:
Posts: 28

Ridiculous thread.

I propose we table this discussion, perhaps even throw some support the home team's way, at least until after Worlds.

Shuster and company have earned their way to Edmonton. They must be doing something right.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-21-17 04:02PM
westcoveroadie is offline Click Here to See the Profile for westcoveroadie Click here to Send westcoveroadie a Private Message Find more posts by westcoveroadie Add westcoveroadie to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
gonzobob
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Apr 2013
Location: Brooklyn Park, MN
Posts: 30

quote:
Originally posted by Clappy


I was actually referring to a tie breaker draw to the button, not the draw for hammer.



Oh. I thought you meant when LSD/DSC is used as a tiebreaker for playoff seeding.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-21-17 07:09PM
gonzobob is offline Click Here to See the Profile for gonzobob Click here to Send gonzobob a Private Message Find more posts by gonzobob Add gonzobob to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is . Post New Thread    Post A Reply
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

Forum Jump:
Rate This Thread:

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Eastern Time (ET)
Full Scoreboard  |  Play Fantasy Pick'em!  
Click Event to Show Scoreboard
W: CCT Arctic Cup
Eastern Time (ET)
Full Scoreboard  |  Play Fantasy Pick'em!  

MOST RECENT CZ FORUM POSTS

Playdowns
Men's ROTR Qualifying for Ottawa ( 1 2 3 4 )
U.S.A. Curling
2017-18 High Performance Program
Playdowns
Women's ROTR Qualifiying for Ottawa ( 1 2 3 4 )
U.S.A. Curling
USA Olympic Trials teams selected
World Curling Tour
Jennifer Jones Loves to Curl - heading to Siberia ( 1 2 )
Alberta Curling
Looking for competitive womens team to join
U.S.A. Curling
Summer Ramblings
Manitoba Curling
Rare Openings in Fort Rouge Evening Leagues
Fantasy Curling
Fantasy Pick'em
Players/Teams Classifieds
Looking for a men's competitive team in Ottawa
Women's Curling Tour
2017 Arctic Cup
Playdowns
Winter Olympics PyeongChang2018
Players/Teams Classifieds
Looking to fill 2017/18 U21 Womens team
Manitoba Curling
Curl Fort Rouge 2017 / 2018
BC Curling
'New' Playdown Format?
Players/Teams Classifieds
Competitive Women's team/Minnesota
Rock Talk
Lethbridge Curling Club Manager
Rock Talk
World Series of Curling
Manitoba Curling
Manitoba shuffle 2017/2018 ( 1 2 )
Job Postings
Virden Curling Club Tender - Manager
Rock Talk
Melissa Martin named Canada's Top Columnist
Rock Talk
Mean Tweets Sheet Show
Rock Talk
Mixed Doubles ( 1 2 3 4 )
World Curling Tour
Humpty's Champions Cup
The Pit
2017 Kentucky Derby
Rock Talk
Earliest Olympic Trials Predictions EVER
U.S.A. Curling
2017 Arena Nationals ( 1 2 )
U.S.A. Curling
World Mixed Doubles
Rock Talk
Curling Shoes
Rock Talk
Everest Curling Classic - August 2017
World Curling Tour
2017 European Masters
Rock Talk
Costly Loss at Worlds
Rock Talk
It's time to crack down on International teams ( 1 2 3 )
U.S.A. Curling
USA Curling Trials (lodging, tickets, rental cars)
World Curling Tour
continue broadcasting Gushe game at 6-0
Rock Talk
Access on I Pad
Rock Talk
Team Homan Raffle
U.S.A. Curling
Bucks County Improvements
Gear Zone/Classifieds
Goldline Quantum X Men's Curling Shoes - Size 9 for Sale
Rock Talk
Which skill is most important ( 1 2 )
Rock Talk
Curling in Canada 1937 lecture by Gordon Hudson
Playdowns
Mixed Doubles Playdowns ( 1 2 3 )
Rock Talk
Is there a consensus best ever ( 1 2 )
World Curling Tour
2017 Players' Championship ( 1 2 3 4 )
Rock Talk
Senior Woman - Looking to join a team
U.S.A. Curling
World Men's and Women's ( 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
Rock Talk
How many major titles can Gushue win
Playdowns
2017 mens world championship ( 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
Rock Talk
NEW! Paul Savage on Curling Legends Podcast
Gear Zone/Classifieds
Curling Shoes to Recommend? ( 1 2 )
Post New Message  |  View All Forums

FANTASY PICK'EM

Player Photo
Jackson, Sophie
  Player Photo
Mathis, Alisha
VIEW MATCHUP
December 18 -- 6:45 am EST
Click to Pick the Winner!
Who do you think will win?

Follow CurlingZone on these networks:

Join CZ on Facebook! Follow CZ on Twitter!

CurlingZone.com: Questions, comments, beefs? Click here to email us.
&c