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W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 4:00pm CT
Berg Final
Scheel (10) Watch Live Curling!
Berg Final
Schapman (10) Watch Live Curling!
Giroux 10  Final
Pekowitz (9) Watch Live Curling!
Viau Final
Johnson (10) Watch Live Curling!
: Canadian Wheelchair Championship
Moose Jaw, SK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 8 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 1:30pm MT
SK (Pederson) Final
ON (Rees) (8)
SK (Dash) Final
NL (Carroll) (7)
NB (Fitzgerald) Final
ON (Morris) (7)
AB (Kuchelyma) Final
BC (Austgarden) (EE)
MB (Thiessen) Final
AB (Purvis) (8)
M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 12:00pm CT
Church Final
Rose (9) Watch Live Curling!
Brenden Final
Guentzel (9) Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald Final
Hebert (9) Watch Live Curling!
Lannoye Final
Cenzalli (10) Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
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Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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11-17-14 02:55PM
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jhcurl
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: US - CT
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Save the webstream

Help save the Nationals webstream
Two U.S. Curling Association (USCA) directors have taken on the challenge of raising a minimum of $20,000 to ensure that the professional level web streaming fans of the National Championships have enjoyed over the last several years continues in 2015.

The USCA has partnered with Twelfth End Sports Network (TESN) to produce full coverage of the mens and womens national championships since 2011, delivering on average more than 60 hours annually of live multi-camera coverage, player audio, in-game statistics, and commentators for free viewing to fans around the world. The USCA and TESN also provided five days of webstreaming of the 2014 U.S. Olympic Teams Trials for curling in November 2013.

This season, web streaming of the Nationals is in jeopardy as the USCA juggles meeting the needs of delivering numerous other member programs and services, including youth and adult development and instruction; club instructor and icemaker training; and coaching development. At the first USCA Members Assembly and subsequent Board of Directors meetings in Denver Oct. 9-12, Directors Dean Gemmell and David Flippo pledged their support to help fund and raise additional dollars to ensure that webstreaming of the 2015 Nationals in Kalamazoo, Mich., Feb. 14-21 will happen.

Donations to this specific project, as well as other USCA programs and services, can be made at https://secure.2dialog.com/usacurli.../showpage?id=11 or by contacting the USCA National Office, 1-888-287-5377.

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11-17-14 10:39PM
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curlky
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Registered: Oct 2013
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So are you saying that TESN charges USA Curling $20,000 to run the webstream for the US Nationals?

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11-18-14 02:17AM
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rbi
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Registered: May 2014
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and are we saying that USCA actually budgeted and paid $20,000 for webstreaming in the past?

and that $20,000 extra has been spent this year on "youth and adult development and instruction; club instructor and icemaker training; and coaching development."?

it would really help to get details of the costs associated with webstreaming of U.S. Nationals.

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11-18-14 08:52AM
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AlanMacNeill
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What? You expect the USCA to be forthcoming with budget information? ha, silly man...just open your checkbook if you want actual member services, know that They Are Right and money spent on ensuring that the National HandPicked Team has more coaches than players is being used correctly.

Now, on a serious note, I can believe $20,000, once you include the need to establish a high speed reliable connection to the arena Nationals are at for the 2 weeks of the event, plus transporting the professional level equipment Calabrese and team have in place, and making sure that they have a place to rest their heads during the 10 days of the event.

I don't even think that budget is enough to pay all of the expenses, honestly.

What I don't understand is why we can't leverage our Uber Valuable connection with NBC Sports via the USOC, and get the Nationals on NBC's live sports app...that's where the Olympic web streaming was during the Olympics, and NBC has the infrastructure in place...it seems like that *should* be a relative no brainer...NBC is already planning on being in place for the playoff portion of Nationals to broadcast it (I think...unless they got soured on it by the somewhat...anticlimactic...games at the olympic playdowns last year...if they aren't, something's wrong here).

This just seems like an avenue that could be marketed better. Joe and his team have done an awesome job (and honestly, the WCF could take lessons from them for their coverages...), but if we want to break through to the National Consciousness level, we need to bring in the Pros from Dover (although IMO, Joe and Tuck should be on the mics...)

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11-18-14 09:09AM
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TakeItOut!
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Fairport, NY
Posts: 143

Webstream

Im not going to get into the exact details of what it costs to run the webstream. I will say however that the entire $20,000 doesnt go to TESN and that putting on a webstream has costs not associated to us that have to be figured in. But Im not going to get into that as I dont have all the details on that.

What I can say is that TESN has significant costs to put on a ten day webstream. That to take 12 days (set-up and take down) and run a professional looking and sounding webstream takes a significant about of effort that happens well before the event begins.

We (well to be totally upfront, BA) have developed the scoring software that no one else had, we continue to tinker with the telestration software that again BA developed. We figured out how to create effects like replay, on ice audio, graphics, statistics, etc. that all take time to figure out and implement. There are costs associated with the cameras, other equipment, cabling, insurance (unbelievable $ here), travel, shipping, and food. There is time associated with working with the USOC, scripting, ensuring graphics are correct, recruiting volunteer announcers who are more knowledgeable about the game than we are. We arent just slapping together an ipad and a handheld mic.

We pour the money that we get from the webstream back into the product and have made improvements each year that hopefully are noticed. We work 16 hour days when on site. We are generally our own roadies (thanks Sean for pitching in). If you were to compare what we do to a similar vocation, like wedding videography plug in the time it takes to pull it off, I think youd see the value proposition and that we are competitive for what we offer.

Additionally, the investment made in TESN has resulted in many new webstreaming projects across the country (many associated with us). Even the ones not on our network have generally come to us for advice. Anyone associated with those projects knows how much money it takes to do an installation.

We know there is a lot of anti-USCA sentiment on CZ. When our line item in the budget had to be cut, board members of the USCA stepped up and said, we are going to try to get this back because its worth it.

We appreciate those efforts, the donations from those who support the product both past and present, the volunteers that have helped us get this far, and hope that you have a better understanding of what it really takes to put this together.

If BA and I were independently wealthy, wed probably do it for nothing.

__________________
Joe Calabrese

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11-18-14 09:29AM
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biterbar
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Registered: Mar 2009
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If I donate and only $10,000 is raised do I get my money back?

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11-18-14 10:19AM
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jhcurl
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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: US - CT
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quote:
Originally posted by biterbar
If I donate and only $10,000 is raised do I get my money back?


The goal will be reached one way or another, so no you won't get your money back.

Thanks Joe for posting that information.

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11-18-14 11:28AM
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curlky
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Registered: Oct 2013
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Joe, I appreciate your explanation, and with the exception of a few comments made by a commentator that ticked me off, I have been happy with the work that TESN has done. I would also say that your webcasts have been better each and every year.

But to play devils advocate on this, I wonder if the product being offered is more than is what is necessary. I come from a very new club, with almost no money. I hear all the time that we have to spend money to get this, or to get that. And most of the time, we just don't have the money, and have to solve the problem more economically. Since you aren't providing any details just generalities (which is clearly your right) its hard to say. It is highly likely that more than $20K is necessary to do the webcast, and you deserve far more.

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11-18-14 03:33PM
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Third Nerd
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2008
Location:
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I love the professional look of TESN past webcasts and have already made my donation.

If the web can raise $50,000 for some guy to make potato salad, I would hope that we can crowd source $20K for a decent webcast of the US Nationals.

TN

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11-18-14 10:07PM
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SPMFromPCC
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Having worked firsthand with these guys in depth in Philadelphia this past February (hopefully the first of many times I get to do so when I'm not competing), I'm not sure anyone fully appreciates the amount of time, money, and energy Joe and BA put into the entire setup. It is plainly insane.

16 hour days? Yep.

Nonstop running around, tinkering, perfecting, just to bring curling fans across the USA the best possible quality broadcast? Yep.

And yet, those guys really do it as a labor of love. They WANT to make it happen. Nobody is forcing them to. Doesn't that generosity deserve some generosity in return? Just consider it.

-Sean Murray
Honored to work with BA in Philly

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11-18-14 11:36PM
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dbsdbs
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Registered: Feb 2013
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Being honest here... I appreciate the work and dedication of TESN but frankly am much less interested in watching a championship when the "winner," i.e. the USA rep to worlds, is essentially determined before the first rock is thrown.

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11-23-14 11:55AM
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tuck
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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
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Mostly a post here to bump it up on the thread list:

I fear that the general dissatisfaction with the USCA is creeping into this discussion. If everybody chips in $20, we're sailing smooth here. The Godfather and Bad Ass do a great job. They have a fortune tied up in electronics and work like dogs at every event that gets their full attention.

I, too, momentarily suffered Sticker Shock at the price...but that quickly passed. Any other good option would have a six figure price tag. Strange as it may sound, 20K is probably a pretty sweet deal.

So don't let the negative vibes stop you. Toss a touch of money this way. I can't prove (but I have my suspicions) that the TESN webcast is very good for USA curling and might be extremely important once we get better at promoting it. Here's a chance to be part of the solution rather than just cursing the problems.

In an attempt at humor: I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, "But without Tuck at the mic, the price should probably be cut in half". While I totally agree with that logic, the TESN guys do a good job by themselves and will do a great job with the help of some highly qualified (more so than me) volunteers.

Ben Tucker

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11-23-14 12:54PM
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Gerry
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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
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I want to second Tuck's comments that the service provided and know what they put into their service. I do some streaming myself, but it doesn't compare to what these guys provide, 4 draws a day for 8 days of coverage.

The 20K figure is easily justifiable and I hope everyone who's enjoyed the Nationals coverage over the years drops a few dollars into the pot to help support this great endeavor.

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11-23-14 03:28PM
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AK267
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Registered: Oct 2002
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Is there any real threat to TESN that the USCA will strike a deal with another outside source? They just signed a deal with NBCSN, Carr-Hughes Productions, and WCTV to do a made-for-TV event in early December.



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Nov. 20, 2014

National Training Center to host taping of special curling event

(STEVENS POINT, Wis.) USA Curlings National Training Center in Blaine, Minn., will host a made-for-TV international curling event Dec. 4-6.

The eight-team competition titled the U.S. Curling Grand Prix will feature rinks from the U.S., China, Japan, and New Zealand competing at Fogerty Arena, home of the Four Seasons Curling Club. Six episodes from the event will be featured on NBCSN. Further telecast details will be released at a later date.

On the heels of record viewership for curling during the 2014 Olympic Winter Games, hosting the first made-for-TV curling series at our facility is a very exciting venture, said John Benton, director of curling operations at Fogerty Arena. Our hope is that the event can showcase our world-class facility and attract even more people to our favorite sport.

World Curling TV will produce the coverage from Blaine, and Carr-Hughes Productions of Saratoga Springs, N.Y., will package the programs for NBCSN.

It is amazing to see what can be accomplished when so many different groups work together toward a shared goal and no one cares who gets the credit, said Rick Patzke, interim CEO for USA Curling. This event and the ensuing television programs are the culmination of all-out effort and support from NBC, the World Curling Federation and its member nations, the U.S. Olympic Committee, Fogerty Arena and Four Seasons Curling Club, USA Curling staff and national team program athletes and coaches, and the other competing nations. The benefits from this are exponential to the competing athletes as well as curling clubs around the country seizing upon the promotional opportunities.

The competing U.S. teams include rinks led by 2012 national champion Heath McCormick (Sarnia, Ontario) and reigning U.S. womens champion Nina Roth (McFarland, Wis.). McCormicks team features Olympians Chris Plys (Duluth, Minn.) and Joe Polo (Duluth, Minn.) along with Colin Hufman (Seattle) and Ryan Brunt (Portage, Wis.). Roth is teamed up with Jamie Sinclair (Manotick, Ontario), Becca Hamilton (McFarland, Wis.), Tabitha Peterson (Eagan, Minn.), and Aileen Sormunen (Duluth, Minn.). The U.S. teams are coached by Olympians Pete Fenson (Bemidji, Minn.) and Ann Swisshelm (Chicago).

Here is a list of the competing teams:

China men: Jialiang Zang, Dejia Zou, Dexin Ba, Qiang Zou, Jinbo Wang

China women: Sijia Liu, Jinli Liu, Xinna Yu, Rui Wang, Jie Mei

Japan men: Yusuke Morozumi, Tsuyoshi Yamaguchi, Tetsuro Shimizu, Kosuke Morozumi

Japan women: Ayumi Ogasawara, Sayaka Yoshimura, Kaho Onodera, Anna Ohmiya, Yumie Funayama

New Zealand: Mens and womens teams to be announced

USA men: Heath McCormick, Chris Plys, Joe Polo, Colin Hufman, Ryan Brunt, Coach Pete Fenson

USA women: Nina Roth, Jamie Sinclair, Becca Hamilton, Tabitha Peterson, Aileen Sormunen, Coach Ann Swisshelm

__________________
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http://www.curlaksarben.com

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11-23-14 04:25PM
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AlanMacNeill
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All that is is the USCA trying to create a venue against the Continental Cup, now that we're not invited to play every year.

Makes sense, really.

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11-24-14 02:04PM
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jhcurl
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Registered: Sep 2002
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Bump.

If you think this is a bad idea and are not donating, I really hope you don't watch when this happens.

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11-24-14 03:16PM
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Third Nerd
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2008
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I also agree with Tuck.

I can understand the anger directed at the USCA about the devaluation of the National championship but we need to look at the bigger picture.

I think that the USCA made a mistake by eliminating the webstreaming from the budget. It is important to have the US National Championship on the web. Both as a service to its membership and to attract sponsors. It is not a choice between webstreaming and NBC. It is a choice between webstreaming and nothing. If the membership doesn't raise the money then the USCA will conclude that webstreaming is not important and permanently ax it from the budget. This is a way to tell the USCA what is important to the membership.

I donated for the same reason I donate to build dedicated clubs where I will probably never throw a rock, "because it is good for the game".

TN

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11-24-14 03:35PM
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Dean Gemmell
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 275

I can understand the frustration with the fact that the webcast wasn't funded. I'm not going to get into all the details, but it was a difficult year on the budget side for the USCA and there weren't many easy choices for the Budget Committee.

I'm one of the directors who believed the webcast needed to happen. Rather than get bogged down in whys or what-ifs, I preferred to take action and pledged to find the funds necessary to continue it this year.

Whatever your issues may be with the USCA, I suggest that outlandish spending by the organization should not be among them. The USCA can, like any organization, always do better. But it does not spend money easily. And 20K for a webcast it's actually 18K but I thought a goal of 20K was a better number and we could save some for future webcasts is definitely a serious value. The production that Brian and Joe put on is a great one and I'm sure that if we calculated an hourly wage for their work, they'd be better off with a gig at Five Guys.

If you don't want to donate, that's fine. But considering how much many of us pay to rent a movie we wind up not finishing or buy an app we never use, a small donation to watch our country's best curlers doesn't seem outrageous.

Believe me, I love to debate the pros and cons of just about anything in our sport. But on this one, I thought it was best to just figure out how to make something happen.

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11-24-14 04:34PM
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melvin
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 57

No one can argue the personal investment from the TESN guys. And I think that if the funds were being raised by/for TESN with the help of the USCA, rather than the other way around, there would be far less griping.

I'll be donating because I enjoy the web cast immensely and think TESN has been doing a bang-up job, but I also think it is a huge mistake to have no coverage of this event. Kids these days, always wanting to SEE things as they happen.

Someone mentioned big picture... and I'd be interested to know what that looks like. Should we expect another solicitation for $20K in donations for 2015-2016?

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11-24-14 04:57PM
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licurler
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2014
Location:
Posts: 15

quote:
Originally posted by Third Nerd
I also agree with Tuck.

I can understand the anger directed at the USCA about the devaluation of the National championship but we need to look at the bigger picture.

I think that the USCA made a mistake by eliminating the webstreaming from the budget. It is important to have the US National Championship on the web. Both as a service to its membership and to attract sponsors. It is not a choice between webstreaming and NBC. It is a choice between webstreaming and nothing. If the membership doesn't raise the money then the USCA will conclude that webstreaming is not important and permanently ax it from the budget. This is a way to tell the USCA what is important to the membership.

I donated for the same reason I donate to build dedicated clubs where I will probably never throw a rock, "because it is good for the game".

TN



Couldn't have said it better myself, and the exact reason I've already donated to this fundraiser.

-MPS

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11-24-14 05:30PM
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RockDoc
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Registered: Apr 2005
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I understand the cost of running a web-stream. Even on a small local scale, it ain't cheap, and that doesn't include travel and lodging.

My main concern is that this type of budget model (seeking annual donations) is simply not sustainable for a core priority activity of the USCA. A key to curling growth in this country is media exposure--TV or increasingly now a web video presence--and this should be a VERY HIGH priority for the USCA. It is even all the more important as TSN and Sportsnet has pretty much choked off web-streaming of many of its events here in the US. Only the WCF Curling Channel has a real presence now.

Let's hope the USCA can hire a CEO that knows how to right the ship. It sounds like we don't have enough funds, sponsorships, and/or fundraising to carry out our core activities. Tapping membership for additional funding each year is a losing strategy. I appreciate those who have donated--I donate freely time, effort, and money to my local club--but is is not a permanent fix.

Last edited by RockDoc on 11-24-14 at 05:32PM

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11-25-14 10:05AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2008
Location:
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I share RockDoc and Melvin's concern that this will become the new fundraising strategy for the USCA but at this point I don't see what the alternative is.

If the membership doesn't raise the money then the USCA will correctly interpret the result as "the webstreaming is not important to its membership".

If we do raising the money then the USCA could see this as an easy way to increase its bottom line.

I think the best solution is to raise the money this year and then trust that the directors on the USCA will push the webstreaming as high priority. Already we have had a couple of directors voice their support in this forum.

Take care of this year and then pressure the USCA board to include the webstreaming in next years budget.

TN

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11-25-14 10:07AM
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MNIceman
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 159

Ads?

I agree the webstream needs to happen and will be happy to donate. My question is where does ad revenue fit in here? TESN is not a non-profit so I'm guessing their goal is to eventually make some money by doing this. Since the USCA is not funding the broadcast is TESN open to collect ad revenue from any sources it can find for this broadcast? Or are they limited to promoting USCA sponsors.

Ideally the broadcast of the US Nationals would bring in enough ad revenue so that TESN is actually paying the USCA for the rights to broadcast. I know we are probably far from that point right now. I just hope that since the USCA isn't able to fund the broadcast that they aren't trying to hamstring TESN's ability to bring in revenue from the broadcast.

These guys deserve to make some money for all that they do to make this happen.

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11-25-14 10:47AM
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Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Fairport, NY
Posts: 143

Ad revenue

I don't see ad revenue as part of the USCA long term plan for the Nationals webcast. My understanding is that there are monetary agreements benefitting the USCA in place that prohibit it. In fairness, I don't think anyone (including us at TESN) anticipated a webcast at all, or the popularity of one prior to these agreements being signed. You have to remember that 4-5 years ago, Nationals were audiocasted. I'm am not sure how long those agreements run or the work it would take to replace money lost if the USCA were to not sign these agreements. My guess is the money they receive is far more through the agreements than they could get from recruiting sponsors for the webcast at the moment.

We actually ran into some issues (not from the USCA) last year at Nationals in highlighting local sponsors (who we got no revenue for - just trying to highlight those who helped the host committee). You may have noticed that we stopped running spots halfway through the week between ends. I do think there are creative solutions to this, but it's not my focus at the moment.

As far as ad revenue in general, I'd like to see a model where not only we, but our affiliates can raise funds through sponsorships to webcast other events (WCT, OCT, made for TESN events, etc.) to offset costs and make a little scratch. But I think we are a ways off from that for the most part. Some of our affiliates may be doing that already, but I don't get their financials.

We are going to be broadcasting the US Open of Curling in Blaine in January. We will highlight ways to support TESN during the event. And if there are local sponsors, we will do our best to highlight them as well. This may be the model by which TESN goes out to recruit webcast sponsors in the future.

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Joe Calabrese

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11-25-14 11:07AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 57

Joe, your post made me think. Are there other ways people can help out?

Is code on github or similar where people can fork, fix bugs, add features and submit to you to merge? Or is your software closed?

Is there any equipment that could be donated/borrowed for the weekend that would help?

Maybe some in the media/video programs at the local community college in K-Zoo would be interested in getting some experience with set up, tear down, production, graphics, etc?

Obviously it sounds like you could use a few roadies. I mean, "the punk" is quite a specimen, but he shouldn't be shlepping all of your gear for you by himself, especially when he'll need to be fresh for his games.

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