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03-04-18 04:06AM
On The Nose is offline Click Here to See the Profile for On The Nose Click here to Send On The Nose a Private Message Find more posts by On The Nose Add On The Nose to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
On The Nose
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quote:
Originally posted by Loony
Good grief. Ajay isn't guessing. The 'real' story has been told any number of times but for some reason, some people just don't want to believe it. Yes, Jones was being classy by refusing to discuss it in the media even though COC ran to her favourite reporter to try and get people to feel sorry for her (she obviously succeeded) but Jennifer took all the heat through the years and never ever bad-mouthed Cathy. You think her team didn't appreciate that? It's part of the reason they have stuck together and been so successful for so long as a team and are still staying together while most other teams are coming apart.

Ajay may not want to say what happened but I'm not afraid to. Both Dawn and Jill went to Jennifer and said they would quit before they would play another season with Cathy. Jennifer was caught in the middle because she considered Cathy a good friend but all previous attempts to heal the rifts on the team had failed and she had to make the decision she made. (And CathyO was handsomely compensated for potential team earnings.) In retrospect, it was obviously the right decision for the Jones team as all their success has proved while Cathy has never been able to get along with new teammates well enough to keep a team together or fit into another team for more than a year.


So... what - or who - is your source of this information?
Unless you know the principles involved personally, I'll take your account with a grain of salt. You simply repeated one of the 'theories' that was making the rounds at the time.
And you display a decided and obvious bias in favour of Jones over Overton.

I'd prefer to hear objective, unbiased perspectives - if any exist.
Or, of course, the actual facts from someone who personally knows one of the principles involved. Anything else is mere speculation and gossip...

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03-04-18 08:16AM
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CURLER1
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quote:
Originally posted by Loony
Good grief. Ajay isn't guessing. The 'real' story has been told any number of times but for some reason, some people just don't want to believe it. Yes, Jones was being classy by refusing to discuss it in the media even though COC ran to her favourite reporter to try and get people to feel sorry for her (she obviously succeeded) but Jennifer took all the heat through the years and never ever bad-mouthed Cathy. You think her team didn't appreciate that? It's part of the reason they have stuck together and been so successful for so long as a team and are still staying together while most other teams are coming apart.

Ajay may not want to say what happened but I'm not afraid to. Both Dawn and Jill went to Jennifer and said they would quit before they would play another season with Cathy. Jennifer was caught in the middle because she considered Cathy a good friend but all previous attempts to heal the rifts on the team had failed and she had to make the decision she made. (And CathyO was handsomely compensated for potential team earnings.) In retrospect, it was obviously the right decision for the Jones team as all their success has proved while Cathy has never been able to get along with new teammates well enough to keep a team together or fit into another team for more than a year.



yes, and Jones took the heat, never bringing up Dawn and Jill.

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03-04-18 10:01AM
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Manitoba Legend
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Haven't weighed in on this episode of Haters vs. Jones.

I don't know Jones and have only met Dawn & Jilly once.

My take - Jones is all about winning. Winning games, winning ends, winning cash, winning sponsorships, winning fans, winning Scotties, winning trials, winning worlds, winning Olympics.

If we agree to the above - and most would (there are some mopes that would disagree cuz their illness prohibits them from agreeing with anything I say) then

WHY ON EARTH WOULD JNOES ROCK A WINNING BOAT - DUMP OVERTON-CLAPHAM - & BRING AN UNPROVEN 3rd FRESH OUT OF JUNIORS?

Think about it. The answer to this question is also the reason for Jones decision. Or, what many call the team decision!

It also explains why outstanding players like Overton-Clapham and Chelsea Carey have a reputation as hi-end curling rounders. . . . . players who play for pay but don't last long with any given team.

Jones has spent over 20 years adjusting her team so that she doesn't become the Manitoba version of Eve Muirhead - a hi-end skip & 4th stone shooter who has to rely on inferior/weaker players to do her bidding (Muirhead is the perfect example)
JJ's roster of team positions since 1995 reads like a who's who of Manitoba curling - too many players and fifths to even recount. Officer was her only constant - until Dawn Askin fell into her lap from the shards of the Jen Hanna team. The final piece to the puzzle was that 22/23 yr old named Kaitlyn Lawes - now the only 2 time Olympic gold medallist in Canadian women's curling history!

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03-04-18 10:12AM
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"Gimli is getting really old.... and Jone's (Jones) takes all the heat".

Clearly you were not at the Gimli provincials because if you were it would be difficult to conclude she did not deserve all the heat. After the ice official refused to change his opinion that the other team had not burned the rock, any other highly ranked team, playing a bunch of recent school graduates, would have simply moved on. But not Jones. No, she stood there for a moment, arms crossed, an intense scowl on her face, tapping her toe impatiently and then demanded to speak to the Director. When the director ( a famous Canadian curler) came out to the ice he immediately stated that he had not been watching the game. Nevertheless , after talking to both skips he ruled in favour of Jones. Why? He never did explain why he reversed the official's decision. There was a rumour that following the game he muttered something about "keeping the show on the road", but he subsequently denied ever saying that.

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03-04-18 10:22AM
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CURLER1
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quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
"Gimli is getting really old.... and Jone's (Jones) takes all the heat".

Clearly you were not at the Gimli provincials because if you were it would be difficult to conclude she did not deserve all the heat. After the ice official refused to change his opinion that the other team had not burned the rock, any other highly ranked team, playing a bunch of recent school graduates, would have simply moved on. But not Jones. No, she stood there for a moment, arms crossed, an intense scowl on her face, tapping her toe impatiently and then demanded to speak to the Director. When the director ( a famous Canadian curler) came out to the ice he immediately stated that he had not been watching the game. Nevertheless , after talking to both skips he ruled in favour of Jones. Why? He never did explain why he reversed the official's decision. There was a rumour that following the game he muttered something about "keeping the show on the road", but he subsequently denied ever saying that.




old, old - been talked to death.


In new news - Jill Officer stepping back.

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03-04-18 11:58AM
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i said it in the women's world thread. with muirhead going down in 2 to fleming i wouldn't be surprised if we see eve make some changes.

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03-05-18 11:54AM
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Team Flaxey of Ontario is now Team Jacqueline Harrisson - Facebook post this morning. Team Alli Flaxey is now a Manitoba team.

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03-05-18 11:59AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nelski
Team Flaxey of Ontario is now Team Jacqueline Harrisson - Facebook post this morning. Team Alli Flaxey is now a Manitoba team.


And 2 former members of Team Harrison are pairing up with two former juniors...

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03-05-18 12:13PM
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Manitoba Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by nelski
Team Flaxey of Ontario is now Team Jacqueline Harrisson - Facebook post this morning. Team Alli Flaxey is now a Manitoba team.


Wonder if Hannah will take Princess along as the team spare? Kinda a big insult to Muirhead - but there's probably no better curler available!

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03-05-18 12:15PM
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Manitoba Legend
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Also wonder if Team Muirhead part company with Old Glenny (Howard) as team coach.

Or perhaps Scottish Curling Federation (SCF) dictates Howard coach Flemming and bring along Eve as team spare?

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03-05-18 01:29PM
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skwerl
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


Wonder if Hannah will take Princess along as the team spare? Kinda a big insult to Muirhead - but there's probably no better curler available!


quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Also wonder if Team Muirhead part company with Old Glenny (Howard) as team coach.

Or perhaps Scottish Curling Federation (SCF) dictates Howard coach Flemming and bring along Eve as team spare?



Don’t think it would do anyone any good to have Muirhead there. Eve would benefit more from the rest and I doubt it would make Hannah play better to have Eve looking over her shoulder. Lauren Gray played for Hannah when they won gold at the World Juniors so that might be a good option. Or else take someone like Sophie Jackson along for the ride.

Team Fleming’s Britsh Curling-appointed coach is Nancy Smith. She coached a very young Muirhead to a silver medal at the Worlds so I’m sure she’ll do a fine job.

Last edited by skwerl on 03-05-18 at 01:31PM

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03-05-18 03:01PM
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Manitoba Legend
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Lauren Gray would be an excellent add to Team Hannah Flemming . . . . probably the top curler in the United Kingdom after Eve Muirhead - - - proven able at a variety of positions - still in top shape after leading for Muirhead at Olympics and British championship.

Also agree Old Glenny might not be the best coaching option for Flemming - despite his addition to Team Princess they still couldn't get by Hannah.

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03-05-18 05:01PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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Don't be surprised if Eve skips Hannah's team next year a la Murdoch

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03-05-18 05:46PM
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Manitoba Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
Don't be surprised if Eve skips Hannah's team next year a la Murdoch


Will the Scottish Curling Fed give Hannah a job on the new team - or make her find another batch of fresh curlers?

As I've pointed out repeatedly Eve currently doesn't have much of a team in front of her. Lauren Gray is the only strong curler with her!

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03-05-18 06:03PM
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Deliverer
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
Don't be surprised if Eve skips Hannah's team next year a la Murdoch


Bang on. And wouldn't that really tick off Fleming should they do especially well, something like say 9-3 in the RR? On the other hand, should they do poorly, I can hear her saying "if you want 'em, they're all yours!!"

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03-05-18 06:37PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer


Bang on. And wouldn't that really tick off Fleming should they do especially well, something like say 9-3 in the RR? On the other hand, should they do poorly, I can hear her saying "if you want 'em, they're all yours!!"




And then Hannah picks up the pieces, forms a new team and beats her again... a la Brewster.

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03-05-18 07:25PM
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Have to say I would indeed be surprised if Team Muirhead made major changes. It’s easy to point to a weak link at whatever position but are the alternatives that attractive? Fleming’s team are not an upgrade on Gray, Adams and Sloan in my opinion. Eve herself was the biggest reason they lost the playoff, gifting Hannah a big headstart in both games with draws that might not have made the house if there was a 20 ft circle.

And even if you do find someone I don’t think this is necessarily a team that would become slightly better if you swap in a slightly better player. Eve is one of the least autocratic skips around, advice is welcome from all corners and if Vicki or Anna suggest an alternative shot they invariably get to play it. You need a high level of trust for that style to work. Whatever Anna Sloan’s failings as a third I do feel that she is a good vice. It’s all too easy for Eve’s intensity to slip into frustration and Anna’s general chirpiness helps rein that in.

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03-05-18 07:57PM
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misty1
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
Don't be surprised if Eve skips Hannah's team next year a la Murdoch


why would that happen?

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03-05-18 08:14PM
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1


why would that happen?



Interestingly of course Hannah Fleming's coach is David Murdoch's sister Nancy Smith.

If you want to get on on Scottish curling it helps to be a Smith or a Muirhead or related to one.

Getting back to Muirhead I don't see any major changes in her line up unless someone wants to quit as they don't want to do another four years.

Anna Sloan and Eve are best friends as well - it would be a bit like Jennifer Jones dropping Jill Officer......

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03-05-18 08:36PM
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1


why would that happen?




History tends to repeat itself. When the top team has an off year and doesn't even win the Scottish nationals, the employer picks the highest paid highest profile player and stacks the deck for their success. Backfired miserably in Murdoch's case.

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03-05-18 08:55PM
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misty1
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2



History tends to repeat itself. When the top team has an off year and doesn't even win the Scottish nationals, the employer picks the highest paid highest profile player and stacks the deck for their success. Backfired miserably in Murdoch's case.



yeah but..i think they did that with murdoch because they thought he would make brewster's team better and , as it turns out he didn't. they had a good olympics but that's really the only good result they had together

the question would be do they think eve would be better off with flemming's team? . i don't think she would. lauren and vicki are a stronger front end . the one upgrade for eve might be at third but even that is debateable

so in the end it would be pretty pointless . for me anyway

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03-05-18 09:00PM
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misty1
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quote:
Originally posted by Martym


Interestingly of course Hannah Fleming's coach is David Murdoch's sister Nancy Smith.

If you want to get on on Scottish curling it helps to be a Smith or a Muirhead or related to one.

Getting back to Muirhead I don't see any major changes in her line up unless someone wants to quit as they don't want to do another four years.

Anna Sloan and Eve are best friends as well - it would be a bit like Jennifer Jones dropping Jill Officer......



the thing is that eve is very loyal. she has curled , as you said with anna for a very long time and anna is dating her brother so they are more like sisters. vicki has also been with her for a very long time and curled with her in juniors at one point. so vicki and anna are like family. lauren is the one on that team who's new.

you're right. this team did do some good things together this year. they finally won the 2nd euros and they were a few inches away from getting another olympic bronze.

i guess it just remains to be seen what kind of influence the powers that be in scotland are going to have over her. eve doesn't seem like the kind of person anymore to let them tell her who she will curl with. if changes are made it'll be because she wants them to be made and for no other reason.

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03-06-18 12:14PM
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Carey
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Ferguson
Brown

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03-06-18 01:52PM
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News out of Quebec on the Team MĂ©nard FB page: https://www.facebook.com/Team-M%C3%...37686166334747/

Jean-Michel is not curling next year. Stepping away from the game.

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03-06-18 03:54PM
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there's just so much unexpected news coming in

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