Registered: Feb 2011
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Posts: 42

Speaking of summer ramblings, anyone gonna take a stab at a prediction thread for the upcoming USCA Arena National Championships in July?

13 womens teams from the following clubs:
Dakota CC
Lansing CC
Oklahoma CC
Dallas-Fort Worth CC
Fort Wayne CC
Long Island CC
Circle City CC
Kalamazoo CC
Pittsburgh CC
CC of Virginia
SF Bay Area CC
Palmetto CC

19 mens teams from the following clubs:
CC of Virginia
Vikingland CC
Kalamazoo CC
Dakota CC
Fort Wayne CC
Coyotes CC
Oklahoma CC
Circle City CC
Lansing CC
Long Island CC
Palmetto CC
Hollywood CC
Denver CC
Dallas / Fort Worth CC
Pittsburgh
Lonestar CC
Broadmoor CC
Bucks County CC
SF Bay Area CC

Thoughts?

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613

Predicting this one might be a little tough. I'll give it a shot:

Ladies:

Anne Wiggins brings her Senior titles and winning ways. I see her in the Finals against Sarah Walsh out of San Fran with Team Ellarby getting bronze and Lampkins making the semis. The Pittsburgh team will have the most fun. I'm surprised that I don't see Gabrielle Coleman entered.

I'm really surprised that I don't see Doc Eigner entered on the Mens side.

Nicky Bling Bling Myers out of Texas has to be the favorite. Sure, he didn't look awesome at Nationals in Green Bay last year, but he looked great in the Hibbing Qualifier. He'll be the favorite, so there is no way I'm picking him.

I like the chances of Team Mendoza out of Hollywood. Look to see them on the medal stand. Greg Gallagher hasn't won a damn thing since he left Chicago a decade ago. He's due and should get some medal. He played me pretty tough in the Grand Forks Nationals many years ago when he was playing with Gordon's kid. I shared a couple of drinks with Greg after the round robin. Fun guy.

I'll take the Long Shot Long Island team to win the gold. Klein has a good third in Dannie Steski. I played with Dannie in Winnipeg last year. He's throwing it good and playing it smart. If they can keep him sober (good luck with that), they should be in the hunt. Does The Curse Of Tuck apply to the arena? I suspect that it might.

Cool event. Lots of new names. I have no idea who might be the experienced skips transplanted from Canada or other curling hotspots. I have no idea which front end players are dedicated to the sport. I don't even know which clubs curl in the summer (big advantage) and which curl in the winter.

Ben Tucker
I have never let my ignorance stop me from making a prediction

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: US - CT
Posts: 1431

Bucks County is curling now. Could be a good team.

Yes, Anne will play very hard on the distaff side.

The battle for the bar bill will be Pittsburgh women vs Long Island men. Both Jackie Temple and Dannie (third nerd) Steski have been trained at Plainfield. I am going with.......Pittsburgh. Tim (I used to play with Walter) is a bit of a light weight. Walter was in his cups by drink 3 and then they were out. So, not a lot of practice there.

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JH
Go Phils, got my WS bet on you

Last edited by jhcurl on 06-26-13 at 05:44PM

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Registered: Jan 2012
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Please make sure your picks take 2 things into consideration.
1. The bar is not cheap for a curling event, but is certainly cheaper than the country clubs out East (and unfortunately the club doesn't get a cut).

2. The official hotel is ACROSS THE PARKING LOT from the arena. There will be nothing to slow Dannie down.

I predict an unofficial hospitality suite to open up quickly with ample representation from the GNCC.

Good curling to all.

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Registered: Dec 2008
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Great so now I have the Tuck Curse AND I have to curl sober.

Thanks alot.

Fortunately it sounds like I won't have to cross any busy streets between the club and the hotel.;-)

TN

PS. Long Island CC curls in the summer but I am not sure curling on ice with a 12 to 14 foot fall is an advantage

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Registered: Feb 2012
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Any chance TESN might broadcast any of the Area Nationals? Lots to show and talk about ---- negative ice, S-turns, ridges, valleys, warming/keening ice everytime the Zamboni and skater doors are opened and closed. There will be lots of great play by hardcore curlers who can play fearlessly on any surface.

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Registered: Jan 2012
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Can anyone from Fort Wayne confirm that the ice will be professionally prepared so it will be arena ice (like the Summerspiel) as opposed to what most of arena curlers are used to (hockey ice)?

I would expect the former so your ability to intentionally use a stalagmite to get to the button will not help this week

Jason

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
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With their cashspiel following in mid August and the USCA HPP camp before that, I would assume you'll see excellent ice.

The Great Lakes Curling Tour site has all four of our Olympic Trials teams, China's Olympic team and the reigning World Champions from Scotland signed up. I am assuming that they are signed up for Fort Wayne. What a field that would be.

Ben Tucker

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Registered: Dec 2005
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If Fort Wayne attracts some of these Olympic teams, jhcurl may have to eat a little crow for past posts. If the Great Lakes Tour continues to attract World level competition and plays host to camps for our top teams, it may elevate itself from "something good for USA curling" to "a real game changer in USA curling".

But this thread is neither about The Great Lakes Tour nor The Fort Wayne Cash. I was just distracted by a question about the possible ice quality. I have no knowledge about it, but I'm going to guess that the Arena Championships will be held on really good ice.

I truly hope this turns out to be a great event and all the participants end up thrilled that they elected to compete. Whether on the social side for teams eliminated early or on the competitive side for teams playing well, I hope it ends up being many things to many people and is good for the game. It is a National Championship. True, it is not the most prestigous of national championships...but it will end up being whatever you make of it. I hope it ends up being both fun and classy.

Ben Tucker

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: DeWitt, MI
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I fully expect the ice conditions to be very good for this event. The USCA is putting a lot of effort into this event- our club in Lansing applied to host next year and the bid process was very involved. The USCA asks for some pre-event time to work with the ice surface, 2-3 days if possible.
Lansing is sending two teams, one on each side. Both do not have a lot of experience but are playing some this summer.

I will be there to officiate (I should be playing but I'm not, and the story as to why I am not is long and boring) and to root on all of my friends who will be there. Looking at you, SF girls and Bond Boys. Harry Potter sends his regards.

Watch out for Kalamazoo on both sides. Stephanie Senneker played 3-4 days a week in Sarnia last year, and Garnet Eckstrand is a wily veteran from Calgary- though he'll admit his knees ain't what they used to be. He has strong players in the Gleaton brothers.

The games are going to be TIMED. 59 minutes per team. A better question might be- who will be the first team to lose on time? I say this in fun, because it might be someone from my own club!

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Registered: Jan 2012
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PS Happy birthday tomorrow, Tuck!

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Registered: Jun 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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quote:

---

Originally posted by jhcurl
Bucks County is curling now. Could be a good team.

Yes, Anne will play very hard on the distaff side.

The battle for the bar bill will be Pittsburgh women vs Long Island men. Both Jackie Temple and Dannie (third nerd) Steski have been trained at Plainfield. I am going with.......Pittsburgh. Tim (I used to play with Walter) is a bit of a light weight. Walter was in his cups by drink 3 and then they were out. So, not a lot of practice there.

---

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Registered: Dec 2005
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Why is Daphne out? Took a year off and didn't pay dues? I hope you find a wonderful replacement.

Don't be too concerned about Hannon's "battle of the bar bill". It is just his term for "teams that will have the most fun". It has little to do with alcohol consumption and much to do with the teams that will have the most fun. In my book, it is quite a compliment.

Pick up Nancy Gerrtinvanderhoop. I doubt I spelled that correctly.

As for those arena curlers who think that crooked ice is a recent invention that only they master: Beware of old curlers. I learned to curl on a two foot fall. Any St. Paul curler over 40 played the last two sheets of theirs under the addition with wild ice. Heck, I was never a great curler...but I was a great crooked ice curler. Gimme 17 seconds and two foot fall...Fenson, Larway and Disher wouldn't have stood a chance.

Ben Tucker
It's a good day to turn 52

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Registered: Dec 2005
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Oops. I forgot. You Pittsburghians have one of the Walker sisters out there these days. If you need a new third, you might as well bring one of the best in the entire nation. That will teach people to mess with your lineup. I think it is Jillian that out there. You just tell her that Tuck thinks it would be a great idea.

Ben Tucker

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Registered: Jun 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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quote:

---

Originally posted by tuck
Why is Daphne out? Took a year off and didn't pay dues? I hope you find a wonderful replacement.

Don't be too concerned about Hannon's "battle of the bar bill". It is just his term for "teams that will have the most fun". It has little to do with alcohol consumption and much to do with the teams that will have the most fun. In my book, it is quite a compliment....

Ben Tucker
It's a good day to turn 52

---

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Registered: Jun 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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quote:

---

Originally posted by tuck
Don't be too concerned about Hannon's "battle of the bar bill". It is just his term for "teams that will have the most fun". It has little to do with alcohol consumption and much to do with the teams that will have the most fun. In my book, it is quite a compliment.

---

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 33

I like Team Kalamazoo on the men's side. Skip is from Edmonton. Front end are cusins to Puleo. Curled in St. Paul as kids. I also like Hollywood and Dallas

I would like to like your pick of Anne Wiggins. Game isn't where she would like it to be. Pretty bad ice conditions (heavy-high humidity)in South Carolina and I think she has pretty new curlers with her. I like San Fran on the ladies side.

Wish I was going or that we were sending teams from North Carolina.Hate what happened to Michelle. Always good laughs with the Pittsburgh ladies.

Cheers-S

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USCA forbids stick curlers in its brand new "we"-created-it Arena Nationals?!?!?!? The USCA's written and public justification ought to be eye-rolling reading. Buckle up folks! It's going to be a bumpy ride....

I had an interesting conversation with a stick curler this year about how the professionalizing of curling was not always a good thing. She had lots of experience in another Olympic sport at extremely high levels and suggested if curling allowed stick players at our nationals, worlds, and Olympics, many very good things could happen for our sport.

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That's the reason sticks are not allowed in National Championships. But, sensor handles are not being used in Ft. Wayne. A puzzling decision was made to allow wheelchair curlers but not regular stick curlers. It appears next year there ought to be a rule change for this event.

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Let me get this straight.... USCA starts an "arena" nationals purportedly to encourage more competitive arena players.... but you are persona non gratis if you use a stick, aka could never get to worlds or Olympics at this time. And, that USCA we-don't-want-you stick players decision was not made transparent until the player roster was announced! So much for USCA's corporate charter to encourage all to curl.

Stick curlers don't even have a "separate but equal" nationals. Yes, I am charging USCA with Jim Crow-like discrimination. Race, gender, age, national origin... those are the classes with the most protection from the US Supreme Court. Those with disabilities also have heightened protection by law.

So.... the famous Olympic movement wants to shunt stick players to the ParaOlympics since God Forbid! a fabulous stick player might one day need a walker like the wonderful "old" players in "Men with Brooms". All because, to get curling into the Olympics, the WCF made a deal with devil. "We have only young and fit athletes just like the other sports!"

Faster, higher, stronger. I guess the real trouble is that motto has never included "older", "wiser" or "smarter"-- characteristics our sport has had in abundance for centuries but is losing with these sorts of Jim Crow decisions. Cany curlers with creaky knees, ankles and hips are just not welcome anymore it would seem. Only the young and physically perfect need apply unless you can qualify for a wheelchair.

So..... just out of curiousity, are sticks allowed at World Seniors?

Alice
Peering Down the Rabbit Hole

Last edited by Alice on 07-01-13 at 03:37PM

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Registered: Sep 2002
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Stick curlers are not "allowed" at any World level curling or qualifying event for World level except wheelchair.

The GNCC has at least one "stick" only curling spiel. The major problem is that the US has different rules for stick curling release than the WCF. Make all your stick curlers release as follows:

The stone must be clearly released from the delivery stick before either foot of the player delivering the stone has reached the tee line at the delivering end.

then we can talk.

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Go Phils, got my WS bet on you

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Registered: Feb 2012
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Thanks JH! I didn't know there is a squable between WCF and USCA on stick release rules.

OK. If USCA has regular nationals and clubs without sticks, why create another event, arena nationals, without sticks, too? Hmmm.....what is truly going on here? I would suggest USCA's clubs and arenas allow sticks and wheels, too, since those events are under our total control - truly irrelevant to Worlds or Olympics unless USCA policy is to supprt only development to those events.

Hmmmmmm...... how about a truly open new world event? No age, gender, or disability discrimination allowed. Allow both arenas and dedicated ice. Beats making curlers being shunted to "separate but equal", closed country club, cherry picked teams events. "The World Open" -- why not? I would bet money the champions there could wipe the floor against most Olympians.

Who would be on your dream team for a world open event?

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Registered: Dec 2005
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Some World Open champions would "wipe the floor" with most Olympians? Ahhh...no. Sorry, Alice. My dream team would be pretty much McEwen's rink as is. Best skip. Best third. Best second. Best lead. Bring all the sticks and wheelchairs you want. Those boys be good...they be real good.

Jim Crow laws? Hyperbole or a gross underestimation of the evil that once was? I am not ready to even begin equating using a delivery aid with laws that could have gotten you lynched.

So here lies the problem:

On one hand: All national events leading to a World event must ban stick curling. We in the USA want an Arena Championship to promote Arena Curling and give something to the dues-paying arena curlers. We would like it to look and feel like a prestigous Nationals. To seperate it from just another bonspiel, they look first to things like time clocks, officials and banning the sticks.

On the other hand: Arena Nationals does not lead to a World event. They could add sticks or wheelchairs or make the games six ends or anything they wish.

Tough call, in my book. Glad I'm not one of those making the decision. I can see both sides.

Ben Tucker

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Registered: Feb 2012
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Well, Tuck, "Jim Crow" laws ranged from the evils of lynching to the overt or even subtle you-can't-be-here or do-that local laws and customs. I wasn't thinking lynching, instead more the nonlethal "You can't sit in this bar" rules enforced by laws or unwritten local customs.

Curling has had wheels and sticks for more than a dozen years but still, the "rules" are not always clear. Our Arena Nationals stick policy was not elegantly done in a sportsmanlike fashion such that a player found herself unqualified nationally after qualifying locally. Any new event has growing pains, but that "missed shot" does not reflect well on USCA and shows an unnecessary discriminatory bias against stick players.

I love seeing all the new curling club names in the Arena Nationals draws. I surfed around many of their websites and most all are actively fundraising to build dedicated ice. There will be a lot of good ideas generated when those clubs get together at these new nationals.

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 33

Oh Alice, As we say in the South "Bless your Heart" As Tuck said those boys are good, real good. Also please stop using the term Jim Crow laws until you really understand them. Just stop.

Comparing not allowing stick curlers to the Casey Martin v PGA case would have been better (a hell of a lot better) than using the term Jim Crow Laws.

This event was made to give us "arena" (skating) club curlers a chance to compete against each other at a national level. If we are not big enough to have a separate event to include adaptive curlers than no one should be excluded from this event based on their physical limitations. Pittsburgh has been one of the best,if not the best, arena clubs for reaching out and including adaptive curlers.

-Sue

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