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M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
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Draw: M5 -- Wed, Mar 27 -- 7:00pm CT
Fitzgerald Final
Guentzel (10) Watch Live Curling!
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W: New Holland Canadian Junior Championships
Fort McMurray, AB
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W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
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Draw: W4 -- Wed, Mar 27 -- 2:00pm CT
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Pekowitz Final
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M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
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Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
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Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
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Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
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Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
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Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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11-29-15 09:14AM
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Re: Re: Curling in FINland

quote:
Originally posted by misty1


he also won european gold in 2000 and olympic silver in 2010 remember.

I would think he had to have some impact . any time you see a sportsman have success it has to drive you to want it and he was around for so long. cant say specifically though because im not sure



His silver in the Olympics was 2006, against Gushue; Ulsrud was silver in 2010 against Martin.

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11-29-15 10:06AM
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Lightbulb some good thought ^^^^

even though your Canadian content will make "stick to the Thread" people crazy.. I enjoy your detailed thinking...
The one person on your list whom I think is very "unheralded" is Shannon Kleibrink..
She made history in 2004 being the first woman to Skip a Canadian Mixed Champion...
Her long history is filled with literally scrapping endlessly to get out of one of the toughest Provinces..Alberta..and grabbing a Bronze in the 2006 Olympics..
At 47 yrs old she is still a dangerous curler

.

Last edited by HotRocks on 11-29-15 at 10:11AM

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11-29-15 11:54AM
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kleibrink

I think Lisa Eyamie her new third.. as a very good curler..might be a factor.. but their short time together might detract as well

putting Shannon at Third wouldnt work..IMO..
but if you look around that HUGE Alberta Curlers pool.. Val Sweeting could find a higher power. skilled back end Mate..than she has now..no insult meant on Lori who at least keeps Val competitive..

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11-29-15 01:01PM
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1


anette norberg curled for sweden but does that take away from what she did and discount her credibility as being known as one of if not the best of all time. i dont know to many lists that dont have her in at least the top 3. i have her number one myself..or tied for it with sandra schmirler

as for ulsrud i ..yeah i worded that wrong. what i meant to say is that he deserved to be ackowledged for all he's accmploished and that i would consider him right up there. not the best of all time, im not a fool but i'd have him in the bottom of my top 10. and h

i acknowldge that teams have it a lot harder coming out of canada but that doesnt mean you cant also ackowledge the things a non canadian team did when they got to the worlds. you can give a team all the autobirths they want, it doesnt mean they will win or do great things. look at andy kapp for example or ulrik schmidt..or liudmila privivkova

being from europe doesnt mean teams shouldnt be considered among the best.

i have nordby, norberg, gustafson, ott and schopp in my top 10 on the womens side

i have ulsrud, murdoch and now edin in my top 10 on the mens side



Certainly. I'm not discrediting what these teams have accomplished at the world level, merely pointing out the much more difficult path the Canadians have to get to the dance. Context is important here. Norberg and Gustafson have impressive resumes and are definitely all-time greats. Though if a Canadian had those same results I would consider it more impressive.

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Last edited by Radio-Man on 11-29-15 at 01:31PM

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11-29-15 01:13PM
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Glad to see Kleibrink getting some love. :up:

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11-29-15 01:57PM
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Thumbs up cute ^^

Shannon is great curler and an even nicer Person.. I just think she might have a season as "spoiler"...

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11-30-15 02:11AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Radio-Man


What's Edin's record in the slams? How many has he won... Does Ulsrud have to come through tough Canadian fields in order to have a chance to play for and rack up world medals....Context is required when making the case for "best ever". Muirhead has pretty much an auto-birth to the Olympics and Worlds, so of course her medal count will ultimately be inflated when compared to Canadian teams. If comparisons are made then you have to acknowledge the depth and competition of said countries. If you injected Ulsrud with Sodium Pentothal I'd be surprised if he thought he played the game on the same level as K-Mart or Glenn Howard at their peak. How many medals would Gushue, Jacobs or Koe rack up playing out of Norway...

Think of the pressure these Canadian teams face at the Olympics (especially)or worlds. Even a great team knows they may not get back for awhile - if ever! At this point in time (3 years out) we'd all be shocked if Eve or Anna weren't in Korea. What would that be, three Olympics for Eve before 30? Apples and Oranges.



I tend to agree with this. Comparing Europeans and Canadians is quite difficult. As you say, a bit of apples and oranges.

I think it is tough to make the case that Edin has ever at any given time had the best team in the world. Given that, it's pretty much impossible to suggest he's the best of all time. One reason why Norberg and Gustafson can be included at or near the top of an all-time list is that a case can be made that they were indeed the best teams in the world in their primes. Much tougher to do with Edin, Ulsrud, Murdoch, Lindholm, McMillan, etc. Edin still has time though. He needs to start winning some slams to get in the discussion I think. But best European, I think he's already there.

I do believe Muirhead will be among the best of all time when it's all said and done. She has plenty of time to rack up titles. But, as you say, the difficulty getting out of Canada has to be factored in to any such discussion.

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11-30-15 09:34AM
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No argument that Canada is without a doubt the toughest country in which to earn a National Title and/or a spot at the Worlds/Olympics. Given that, I definitely agree that it's hard to compare Europe & Canada.

That being said, while it is true that (barring a slump come playdown/championship time) Muirhead is all but guaranteed a berth at Europeans/Worlds, she does have an impressive slam record compared to the other top European Rinks (men & women), which I think does need to be taken into consideration.

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11-30-15 10:45AM
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Eve and her challenges

When you realize that Eve had to play her way through finding out she has coeliac disease.. her record didnt suffer much..

Concerning curling.. Eve has to win her way through Scotland (should get increasingly more competitive as the sport grows).. and does have to Qualify both for the Euros and worlds
( anyone who knows the exact path might clarify this..?)

When you consider the full eight months Team Muirhead are in constant Travel mode to gain experience and wins..
Canadian Teams have an advantage there..

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11-30-15 02:03PM
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Eve is indeed awesome, but let's also give credit to the Lady Swiss and the Lady Swedes for their achievements. Here are the totals from the last 10 Women's World Championship winners:

3 Switzerland
2 Canada
2 Sweden
1 China
1 Germany
1 Scotland

Yes, Canada has finished second 3 times but then again so has Sweden. In terms of results, the rest of the world is right up there and I'd expect the Men's side to show a similar trend over the next decade. Our sport is much better for this!

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11-30-15 02:06PM
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Re: Eve and her challenges

quote:
Originally posted by HotRocks
When you realize that Eve had to play her way through finding out she has coeliac disease.. her record didnt suffer much..

Concerning curling.. Eve has to win her way through Scotland (should get increasingly more competitive as the sport grows).. and does have to Qualify both for the Euros and worlds
( anyone who knows the exact path might clarify this..?)

When you consider the full eight months Team Muirhead are in constant Travel mode to gain experience and wins..
Canadian Teams have an advantage there..



Nope.

Yes, exactly. At present there aren't any teams that can really stand up to her squad, but they are getting better and it's not getting any easier for Muirhead. They have a playdowns in October for Euros, and then the Scottish Championships for Worlds in either January or February.

Travel certainly doesn't make it easier. A lot of the Canadian Teams have quite a bit of travel as well, bit not nearly as far or through so many time zones.

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11-30-15 02:14PM
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quote:
Originally posted by TNH
Eve is indeed awesome, but let's also give credit to the Lady Swiss and the Lady Swedes for their achievements. Here are the totals from the last 10 Women's World Championship winners:

3 Switzerland
2 Canada
2 Sweden
1 China
1 Germany
1 Scotland

Yes, Canada has finished second 3 times but then again so has Sweden. In terms of results, the rest of the world is right up there and I'd expect the Men's side to show a similar trend over the next decade. Our sport is much better for this!



Agreed wholeheartedly.

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11-30-15 02:18PM
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last 10 womens Worlds

SUI had 3 different skips that won.. and it all started in 2012 with M Ott

SWE- had one skip Norberg...Canada sent Four different skips..

and little SCO has Eve Muirhead

.

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11-30-15 03:55PM
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eve

her path out of scotland will get tougher. scotland does have a couple good young teams in hannah flemming, lauren gray and gina aitken and as they get better it will get harder for eve to advance out of scotland

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11-30-15 07:43PM
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Re: eve

quote:
Originally posted by misty1
her path out of scotland will get tougher. scotland does have a couple good young teams in hannah flemming, lauren gray and gina aitken and as they get better it will get harder for eve to advance out of scotland


Most definitely.

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11-30-15 11:37PM
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Eve is the ultimate gamer, no doubt. When the chips are down she usually delivers, no matter how she was playing up to key moments in a game. She's just wired that way. Natural born leader.

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12-01-15 03:52AM
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Wed match up

Looking forward to the Jones-Homan battle in the Canada Cup..Wed 8:30P ET

There IS a Canada Cup Thread now.. so will switch over to there...waiting for the Legend's detailed analysis..


.

Last edited by HotRocks on 12-01-15 at 04:44AM

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12-01-15 04:57AM
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Re: Re: Re: eve

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


Not so quick on replacing Princess Eve - although there's a couple 4th rock throwers who can routinely throw up 75 to 80% games (about the same as Eve when she's out of sorts) - there's no one there who's as adept at big-game hunting as her. There's barely anyone in the rest of the world.

And despite repeated criticisms of her 3rd Anna Sloan, there's no doubt Sloan is still the top 3rd in Scotland.

But there's no Fomina--Sidorova combo on the horizon. The closest is Eve-Sloan ---- and Sloan can't stand up to the world's top 3rds!



Oh no, she's not going anywhere for quite some time.

The opposition is getting better though, so if things continue it's going to get harder. Of course, as they get better Muirhead will probably get better as well. In the end Muirhead will most likely win.

All in all it's good for the sport, both in the country and in the world as a whole. In country it's good to have depth, so that when the time comes a new team is ready and able to carry the torch. It's also a good pool of reserves from which to draw alternates or replacements if need be. Worldwide, the more countries/teams that are legitimately competitive helps to grow the sport.

Switzerland and Sweden are some great examples of this, especially with the women's squads...not so sure with the men though, especially with Sweden. Now Scotland is getting there with both men and women. Russia is working seriously on developing depth as well.

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12-01-15 02:32PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: eve

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


Let me ask you a question Phil - where is this Russian depth you speak of? Either women or men?

Is Privikova still curling? (after the Russians replaced her with Sidorova)..... I suspect the only way the Russians could get a bit of depth is if Fomina went out on her own and built a team with her friend Galkina in tow. That may happen - but not until the next Olympic cycle is complete - Sidorova and Fomina are tethered to each other given the success they're starting to forge. Perhaps Privikova comes back to serve with Sidorova, if such a chasm opens?



I didn't say it's there yet, not even close. I said they're working on it. To quote my post verbatim:

quote:
Originally posted by Phil_D
Russia is working seriously on developing depth as well.


There is a concerted effort in their national program to develop second teams and junior teams. Ultimately they're looking to create a pipeline. All the national teams train together at times, especially later in the summer and earlier in the season. They also try and get all their teams out into competition, which is in Europe for the most part, but also more frequently in Asia as well. In order to earn their berths at Euros/Worlds, the top teams have to win the national playdowns (known as the "superbowl").

For this season, now that the first teams are established and berthed to Worlds (and Euros last week) the second teams are going to shift focus somewhat to mixed doubles competition.

As for who the second teams are, I'm not sure who it is for the men, but for the women it's Moiseeva's team.

Nobody in Russia right now (men or women) are as good as Sidorova. Not even close. The Russians would like to see that change though. It's going to take years, but they're working on it.

Note: My information comes via Russian Curling & Sports websites. Google translate is a wonderful thing.

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12-01-15 03:56PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: eve

quote:
Originally posted by Phil_D


I didn't say it's there yet, not even close. I said they're working on it. To quote my post verbatim:



There is a concerted effort in their national program to develop second teams and junior teams. Ultimately they're looking to create a pipeline. All the national teams train together at times, especially later in the summer and earlier in the season. They also try and get all their teams out into competition, which is in Europe for the most part, but also more frequently in Asia as well. In order to earn their berths at Euros/Worlds, the top teams have to win the national playdowns (known as the "superbowl").

For this season, now that the first teams are established and berthed to Worlds (and Euros last week) the second teams are going to shift focus somewhat to mixed doubles competition.

As for who the second teams are, I'm not sure who it is for the men, but for the women it's Moiseeva's team.

Nobody in Russia right now (men or women) are as good as Sidorova. Not even close. The Russians would like to see that change though. It's going to take years, but they're working on it.

Note: My information comes via Russian Curling & Sports websites. Google translate is a wonderful thing.



yeah, i remember linda commenting once during a world championship when lucy was still the ship pf the national team. at the time sidorova was her 3rd and i remember linda mentioning that russia had skips coming up that they thought were going to be even better than anna and lucy. now, since kovaleva was a junior at the time id imagine that they meant her and so im guessing that they expect kovaleva to so great things.

its funny that you say they want to develop depth on the mens side too and yet have done everything to ensure they arent. they have a team right now that has 3 former skips that they have all put on one team so, from the mens perspective it looks like they are only concentrating on one team. you dont even see other mens teams on tour. i mean, if they wanted depth on the mens side then why not keep arkhipov and drozdov skipping separate teams.

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12-01-15 05:34PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: eve

quote:
Originally posted by misty1


yeah, i remember linda commenting once during a world championship when lucy was still the ship pf the national team. at the time sidorova was her 3rd and i remember linda mentioning that russia had skips coming up that they thought were going to be even better than anna and lucy. now, since kovaleva was a junior at the time id imagine that they meant her and so im guessing that they expect kovaleva to so great things.

its funny that you say they want to develop depth on the mens side too and yet have done everything to ensure they arent. they have a team right now that has 3 former skips that they have all put on one team so, from the mens perspective it looks like they are only concentrating on one team. you dont even see other mens teams on tour. i mean, if they wanted depth on the mens side then why not keep arkhipov and drozdov skipping separate teams.



That I do not know.

I think things are clearer/easier for them on the women's side. They have their top team, then their second squad with Moiseeva. For the men I think they're struggling to get the first team on a solid footing, let alone worry about a second team.

I guess my whole point was that at least they recognize the need for depth and development. Might be a case of their actions not reflecting their words when it comes to the men's teams.

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12-01-15 08:40PM
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and next..??

Waiting for GERmany to get on board as well.. seems they like skiing and other winter sports..

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12-01-15 08:43PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: eve

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


The one positive effect from Sidorova becoming a dominant women's team is that the Russian federation realizes they have some kind of formula for developing quality curlers. Just have to get a larger base of young men and women curling at their limited curling facilities throughout the country. (most centered around Moscow I suspect)



Yup.

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Phil_D
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Registered: May 2014
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 629

Re: and next..??

quote:
Originally posted by HotRocks
Waiting for GERmany to get on board as well.. seems they like skiing and other winter sports..


Indeed.

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