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11-19-15 09:15PM
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Gerry
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Registered: Sep 2002
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The brush pads materials that have been deemed illegal is anything that is a pressed type of material, rather than woven. The included materials are the icePad, the EQ+ and I believe the Olson GR8 pad falls into this category as well. Along with anything similar.

As for Goldline, they've been trying to remain neutral on the issue. They worked with Hardline to help them source Norway type material to use on their pads instead of the original fabric before I was able to direct them to local supplier who had an older version of the Norway material from someone I know who makes his own pads.

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11-20-15 04:04AM
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On The Nose
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Wow... a New York Times article on curling! Just when life seemed comfortably predictable...

It seems almost as if HardLine are victims of their own marketing. They've marketed their broom as being a 'radical change', 'radical improvement', etc. from any and all other brooms - and so, based on that marketing claim, along with the fact that the appearance of their brooms is quite different than the brooms of other manufacturers, it is not surprising that they are being singled out by the WCF.

I join those who find it ridiculous - and perhaps even suspicious - that the HardLine brooms were being used - both at the elite and club level - for more than 2 years with neither the WCF nor the CCA doing anything to stop them... and then now - after they've been available to everyone for more than 2 years, the WCF is suddenly saying that they are not acceptable.
We must ask: How can a specific product be acceptable for over 2 years, and then suddenly be deemed unacceptable - without any change in the product over that time?

Lastly, there are people in this thread saying that no 'technological advances' to brooms were made before HardLine's IcePad. Those saying this better be under 15 years old... because I seem to recall corn brooms evolving into covered corn brooms (the material covering them can be deemed 'technology'), and covered corn brooms evolving into Hammer brooms, etc., which was a huge and radical - and technological - change...
Further, how can these people say that the plastic insert (or even the once supposedly 'directional fabric') of Hardline IcePads is more 'technological' than is the foil insert of the EQ pad, or the ridges of the Norway pad?
If the plastic insert of the IcePad is a 'technological advance', then so was the EQ foil insert, the Norway ridges, the graphite/carbon fibre shaft, the fiberglass shaft, the Hammer, the cover for the corn broom, etc., etc...

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11-20-15 10:18AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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I am surprised that BP hasn't introduced a steel slider on their shoes that intentionally damages the ice and tried to get its teams to ban steel sliders to stop Mike McEwen from playing at all.

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11-20-15 10:21AM
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Let's change the tack here a bit....

For those that are calling this a witch hunt or saying it's a simply superior product or saying that you aren't buying the 'fall' and 'slowing' accusations (basically, "BS, prove it!")....the following.

When they get testing done over the offseason (and it will be independent and involve people in every aspect of the game....please don't say otherwise). Where do you stand if they say they found 1 manufacturer's fabric/head that causes fall? What if there are 3 of them....and one can sweep 3' of fall and another 16" and another 6"? Are the people that are so Hardline defensive here....saying that it's simply the best fabric/head that is keeping a rock completely 'straight' on it's thrown path?
(also, please stop saying 'broom'...b/c this is about fabric and a rigid insert...not the broom)

I guarantee they will test with and w/o corner sweeping and I'm sure sweeping will be part of the discussions as well. But, instead of everyone digging in on sides....I'd love to see where folks stand on easing up on the current stated intent of sweeping (further and straighter)...and allowing a bit of 'steering'

Also, please remember, besides Hogline brooms (ever hear of Hogline?), Hardline is the ONLY company that is arrogant/short-sided enough to have locked themselves in with ONE fabric. If they had a more traditional/less abrasive/less waterproof fabric we wouldn't have to listen to them go on and on about being victimized....they'd be like BalancePlus and/or Olson that had one of their fabrics/heads banned....but, have other options for their teams to fall back on.

So.....acceptable levels of steering and fall if it's proven Hardline/others have heads that do?
...anyone?

Last edited by livem1 on 11-20-15 at 10:34AM

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11-20-15 11:14AM
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MNIceman
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Registered: Feb 2011
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quote:
Originally posted by livem1
Also, please remember, besides Hogline brooms (ever hear of Hogline?), Hardline is the ONLY company that is arrogant/short-sided enough to have locked themselves in with ONE fabric. If they had a more traditional/less abrasive/less waterproof fabric we wouldn't have to listen to them go on and on about being victimized....they'd be like BalancePlus and/or Olson that had one of their fabrics/heads banned....but, have other options for their teams to fall back on.



BalancePlus only has the EQ. They started the EQ+ this season but have already stopped manufacturing it. Guessing they weren't too optimistic about the long term success of the EQ+.

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11-20-15 11:19AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Anyone who has watched Shark Tank or Dragon's Den, or started a business themselves based on a new product should realize that you don't start a business with product diversity very often. Usually that is only something you build after attaining a brand and some market share to get previous customers to consider additional products from you. So, enough with the argument that Hardline should've had multiple fabric offerings. Also, had they had an "old tech" fabric offering, it wouldn't have went along with the marketing plan they developed for their product. So just drop that already. They followed their plan and were successful before BP decided they didn't like it. And at just a few years into being around, neither BP, or Goldline, or anyone had their own fabric outside of the standard nylon cordura that came on every performance head. If that had been banned back then, those companies all would have been in the same situation Hardline is now. Hardline is not arrogant in thinking it could follow a marketing plan to sell a far superior product, maybe slightly short-sighted in not anticipating backlash, but not arrogant.

I am curious why you keep bringing up Hogline though? Do they even have a proprietary fabric? I thought they just had plain old original Performance heads. I've seen their brooms around and I remember reading their mission statement when first entering the market. I thought it was a joke to market yourself into such a small niche of selling American made brooms to the American curlers who are too cheap to buy better product from Canada because the shipping costs more. But that is just my opinion. I see since then, they have developed a "better" plastic bearing mechanism to keep the broom pivot point from wearing out. At least they have something proprietary now, so kudos to them.

Anyways, back to the original intent of answering your post:

I personally feel that the rules against corner sweeping should have never been taken out to begin with. But, if the WCF wants to hold that ground, I say they deal with the consequences. In an athletic competition I see sweeping a rock to fall no more offensive than sweeping a rock to carry farther. And I don't care what the number is, be it 6" or 60" fall. If the fabric can be proven to not be causing damage to the ice that affects the sustainability of shot making through the course of a game, then it should be acceptable. If said acceptable fabric can make a rock fall from one side of the house to the other, than so be it.

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11-20-15 11:20AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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quote:
Originally posted by livem1
Let's change the tack here a bit....

For those that are calling this a witch hunt or saying it's a simply superior product or saying that you aren't buying the 'fall' and 'slowing' accusations (basically, "BS, prove it!")....the following.

When they get testing done over the offseason (and it will be independent and involve people in every aspect of the game....please don't say otherwise). Where do you stand if they say they found 1 manufacturer's fabric/head that causes fall? What if there are 3 of them....and one can sweep 3' of fall and another 16" and another 6"? Are the people that are so Hardline defensive here....saying that it's simply the best fabric/head that is keeping a rock completely 'straight' on it's thrown path?
(also, please stop saying 'broom'...b/c this is about fabric and a rigid insert...not the broom)

I guarantee they will test with and w/o corner sweeping and I'm sure sweeping will be part of the discussions as well. But, instead of everyone digging in on sides....I'd love to see where folks stand on easing up on the current stated intent of sweeping (further and straighter)...and allowing a bit of 'steering'

Also, please remember, besides Hogline brooms (ever hear of Hogline?), Hardline is the ONLY company that is arrogant/short-sided enough to have locked themselves in with ONE fabric. If they had a more traditional/less abrasive/less waterproof fabric we wouldn't have to listen to them go on and on about being victimized....they'd be like BalancePlus and/or Olson that had one of their fabrics/heads banned....but, have other options for their teams to fall back on.

So.....acceptable levels of steering and fall if it's proven Hardline/others have heads that do?
...anyone?



Word for word what I stated yesterday livem1....

"I am all for testable standards (as is Hardline BTW) - define a standard, disclose how you are going to test it, and give the manufacturers a time frame to comply."

"To be clear, I am totally fine with them banning every innovative aspect of the IcePad if that is what is needed for the game just not with zero notice and no testing."


I am a Hardline supporter but not blindly against doing what is good for the game long term. I am only against making mid-season knee jerk reaction rules based on no evidence with no notification to the manufactures.

What is an acceptable level ?? I don't think anyone knows the answer to that. That is the million dollar question that we are just starting to debate and once you decide what acceptable level you want then you have to define what standards are going keep manufacturers within that standard. People will always push limits - it is human nature.

I have a feeling a component of those new standards/rule will have to include something to address one man one side sweeping techique we are seeing. I believe it is more against the spirit of our game than any brush head.

BTW - calling HL arrogant/short-sighted for going with one broom head option is silly. They created what they believed to be a superior product that was within the rules of the game - why would they need to create an inferior one to go along with it ? People could just use one of the other manufacturer's brooms if they wanted that. ;>

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11-20-15 11:40AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by dnero


Can you define "Advantage"? If you mean that I was looking for an unfair advantage over my opponent, I take exception to that.

And please don't tell me these (scorned) Elite teams didn't make the switch because they care about the integrity of the game. Its all financial, because if it wasn't financial, the GSOC/WCT or whatever its called these days would have never been started in the first place.



dnero you making yourself look like a monkey. Do you think Brad Gushue dropped Goldline and his lucrative contract with them because HL was gonna pay more. Give your head a shake.
He went with HL cause he knew he would have an ADVANTAGE over the other teams and could compete with McEwen and Carruthers. These two teams have had their way for a while without anyone knowing. If it wasn't for these two teams and their success using their brooms like a joystick HL would not be enjoying the success they are currently having. Their gig is up. Now lets see who the best teams are?
Lets get back to what the spirit of the game is?
I love what HL has done with respect to innovation, but this is over the line.
.

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11-20-15 11:46AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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quote:
Originally posted by livem1
When they get testing done over the offseason (and it will be independent and involve people in every aspect of the game....please don't say otherwise).

I guarantee they will test with and w/o corner sweeping and I'm sure sweeping will be part of the discussions as well. But, instead of everyone digging in on sides...




You can guarantee they are going to get proper testing done in the offseason ? I think you give the WCF and CCA too much credit. They have had years to address this issue and never done a thing about it until Balance Plus decided to introduce the blackhead into competition this fall and all hell broke loose.

quote:
Originally posted by livem1
...c we wouldn't have to listen to them go on and on about being victimized....


Funny, you say lets change tacks and then go back to bashing.

Every new ruling that has come out has been directly directed at Hardline only. It is hard not to think something stinks here.

Also, I was not there and I doubt you were either but IMHO all the anecdotal evidence points to unaccecptable bullying of Hardline teams by non-Hardline teams.

If you haven't read it, one of the most interesting things I've read on all of this was Gerry's post about what happened Saturday night in Truro.

http://www.curlingzone.com/talk/?p=217


quote:
What followed was a week of tension between the players, until a breakthrough was had on Saturday evening at when two teams involved in Wednesdays accusations over cheating came together and tested each others and other brushes. These two teams tested the Norway Pad, the EQ and the inverted icePad on a variation of hit weight shots.

By the end of it, the two teams had come together and agreed that all three brush pads were showing similar results, to a point where Ill shut my mouth now, was uttered by one of the players on the team laying accusations of cheating against the others and both teams came together a sorted out their differences on the ice.


This was the piece that made me realize what kind of bullying Hardline teams must have been facing since the StuSell spiel.

Last edited by Dynomite2910 on 11-20-15 at 12:17PM

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11-20-15 12:29PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2013
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Well, on the bright side, the local radio station here in San Francisco just called and wants an interview about these "tech brooms".

I can't wait to get them on our hockey ice and show them how I can make a rock fall. Hey, watch this, I can also make it bounce off of that ridge.

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11-20-15 12:46PM
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First post after being a lurker for years ... I have been following this since the start and have found it to be truly fascinating.

To someone who is involved in finance the whole situation originally came off as a coordinated corporate attack by Balance Plus (BP) through their long term sponsored athletes against Hardline (HL). The reasons I thought this:

1) The term joysticking went from not existing in the curling vocabulary to suddenly being used by every BP sponsored curler in all press comments and social media posts. Seemed like a term developed by a PR/marketing department as it is short and would trend well.

2) All of the BP sponsored players came off as coached with regards to the language used as they had been prepped as to the potential consequences (liable and slander lawsuits )of naming HL by name. This is when another new term came into play directional fabric

3) We had BP sponsored players like Wayne Middaugh making comments to the press about how the new brooms were ruining the game during the media/social media blitz weekend Theres a broom head to the point where me sweeping, is more effective than Ben Hebert and Marc Kennedy sweeping together, said Team Howard vice Wayne Middaugh. Middaugh hadn't actually used it yet, but he was going on reports from his teammates https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/e...-022117902.html

4) Balance Plus decided to co-op the StuSells Toronto Tankard and released their video to demonstrated the power of these new brooms technologies (even though most turned on the videos as they werent using the HL brooms and they were using corner sweeping techniques)

5) We had players like Amy Nixon, a practicing lawyer, revealed to the Calagry Herald that they pressured to get on board as they received received threats from the BP sponsored Howard We received an e-mail containing minutes from that meeting players minutes via Curling Canada. Then we receive an e-mail from Team (Glenn) Howard, very much a strong stance in summary that (said) we will shame anyone who uses directional fabric, http://calgaryherald.com/sports/cur...nto-broom-issue

The other reason I wasnt surprised by this is that I have been involved with a couple of the curling clubs in the lower mainland in BC to help them with their financials and sustainability planning. One of the things not being talked in these forums has to do with the grass roots economics of what has been going on.

In our community Balance Plus stopped/significantly cut sponsorship of Club 2 years ago. They communicated that they were going to take a top-down approach and focus on sponsorship of the professional teams with their marketing dollars. Also Balance Plus, recognizing they had the best products started to change language in their contracts and squeezing their margins (wholesale vs MSRP).

Hardline started making a big push last year at the club level with the best broom margins for clubs, the best return policy, incredible order fulfilment and shipping and this year started with a bottom-up approach with sponsoring clubs. From a club level curler perspective the number one reason I hear that members like the HL brooms is because they feel like they dont have to purchase multiple broom heads a season as the new performance (EQ & Norway heads get dirty/ruined too quickly).

I can let you know that the 3 clubs I am involved with, 2 didnt order any new BP brooms for this season and the other significantly reduced their order. All 3 clubs also significantly cut down on broom head replacement orders. I suspect this has been repeated across the country which is why we have seen the actions taken by BP.

Its really sad because this is now coming back to hurt Community Club governance as members are now asking if the brooms are going to be banned at the club level.

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11-20-15 01:01PM
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The reason I made the above post is because of the following part of the WCF statement.

Also, only sweeping equipment available for sale to the public at retail outlets as at 17 November 2015 will be permitted within the boundaries of the field of play.

This means that Hardline is basically cant do anything to become compliant by making adjustments this season. It means a whole bunch of teams sponsored by Hardline are screwed.

Its also interesting how the term directional fabric has been removed (after it has been shown the HL doesnt use direction fabric with a weave that restricts movement in a certain direction).

The new focus is now on the insert which is the most interesting aspect. The insert argument is that the broom is to firm and adding extra pressure down on the ice amplifying the effect. I find this amusing as there is a reason why the Brownie, then Hammer, then the Transformer broom head started out thick and then went thinner, till finally you had the performance brush head. Each new successful broom head firmed up the padding and got thinner so you could put more force into the ice.

In the end the WCF looks bad as they are allowing the EQ and Norway heads to continue to exist. If they were going to roll stuff back they should have made everyone use the plain fabric performance broom heads and negating all the trademarks/proprietary technologies each is using. Both the other companies still sell them.

http://www.goldlinecurling.com/en/c...val-curling-pad

http://www.balanceplus.com/catalog/...&products_id=43

The problem is the WCF arent coming off as impartial with their direct sponsorship by Balance Plus and Goldline and even if there is no real conflict-of-interest, outside perception is what matters.

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11-20-15 01:13PM
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This is just my opinion, based on what I've seen.

The removal of rules against corner sweeping, and snowplowing occurred around the same time as Hardline Brooms coming to market.

I was surprised with the rule change, as it was known/believed you could affect the curl of a rock with corner sweeping, and slow it down by snowplowing, and dumping. Once the rules changed teams could start blatantly using these sweeping methods, instead of trying to figure out how to it within the rules, or without being caught. After a couple of years, teams have started figuring out the best methods to control the rocks with no restrictions on how to sweep. Combine this with a changing of the guard in Canadian curling, and the younger generation being able to pickup new methods more quickly, and you end up in the situation we have now.

Personally, I think this has resulted in Hardline being unfairly targeted.
For the record I have used a Balance Plus broom for about the last 10 years.

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11-20-15 01:17PM
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I personally think it is all overblown and one manufacturers response to lost market share. First of all, the Hardline brooms,along with Balance Plus and Goldline brooms, are readily available for every competitor to use so there is no unfair advantage, no one is told that they are not allowed to use their choice. The brooms they chose to use are part of their free will, a conscious decision that each team or player makes. Now I know you will say that they have sponsors that pay them to use " Their" equipment so they cant switch, but that is again a conscious decision and part of the free will choice they make. If you feel a product is better then use it, if you chose not to the don't complain, you made that commitment. Innovation has been part of this game since the beginning, at one time you could not leave the hack, sliding was deemed cheating. The game we play now is nothing like the one played one hundred years ago. Same with the equipment. The athleticism is still there at the top levels no matter which product is used and now maybe innovations in sweeping are changing the game. The more I see the " one sweeper" technique the more it makes sense, why have two guys sweeping on opposite sides and cancelling each other out when you can have one person on either side sweep depending on what you want the rock to do and thus control the rock better. Things change, its called evolution.

Last edited by dugless_zone 13 on 11-20-15 at 01:23PM

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11-20-15 02:11PM
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Glenn Howard and his BP friends first came out at the StuSells raging about directional fabric. DAYS later, the WCF in a first statement was banning all woven fabric, HL main product.

But HL teams kept on winning.

Last week on SportsNet before a game at The Nationals, Glenn is going on and on about the plastic insert. DAYS later, The WCF issues a second statement banning hardening inserts (but not foil...). What a coincidence! Makes me wonder who is running the show.

Question #1 : Can anyone tell me how much $$$ BP contributes to the WCF?



All of this controversy obviously hurts a small company with momentum like HL trying to make a name for itself than a well established one with much greater financial stability and resources like BP.

Question #2 : Why run these tests AFTER the season? We are not to test a new pharmaceutical drug or a new line of aircrafts. We are talking about testing a curling BROOM! It cannot be that difficult.

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11-20-15 02:21PM
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its all about BP and loss of market share. We tried to order BP shoes for our club members and were told that there will be no more shoes made this year, changing manufacturer so no new shoes for people other than what is in a depleted stock.

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11-20-15 02:37PM
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curlky
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Registered: Oct 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by Itsjustagame

Question #2 : Why run these tests AFTER the season? We are not to test a new pharmaceutical drug or a new line of aircrafts. We are talking about testing a curling BROOM! It cannot be that difficult.



Performing a test is easy. Developing a test protocol is hard (and has never been done). In order to perform a test, here is a brief partial list of what needs to be done in no particular order

- Come up with some repeatable mechanical way to test the effectiveness of a broom. Do you measure just the grit like with sandpaper? Do you measure if there is a uniform pattern, or somehow a "directionality" in the grit?

- Determine what makes a broom actually work? Is it scratches on the ice? Is it a temperature change?

- Determine which components of a broom make a difference. Is it fabric texture? Is it foam backing? Is it plastic inserts? Is it surface area?

failure to learn all of this leads to a situation wherein people will say

It is the fabric directionality. No, it is the plastic backing. etc.

Overall, so little is actually know about the physics of curling and sweeping, and developing a valid test will take some time

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11-20-15 02:46PM
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dugless_zone 13
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Is it true that Glenn Howard's coach, Scott Taylor,is president of Balance Plus?

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11-20-15 03:04PM
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shaqdaddy
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Sep 2015
Location: Toronto
Posts: 57

Yes unless he retired over last 12 months. Don't think he coaches them after 14-15 season.

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11-20-15 03:17PM
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JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by Itsjustagame
Glenn Howard and his BP friends first came out at the StuSells raging about directional fabric. DAYS later, the WCF in a first statement was banning all woven fabric, HL main product.

But HL teams kept on winning.

Last week on SportsNet before a game at The Nationals, Glenn is going on and on about the plastic insert. DAYS later, The WCF issues a second statement banning hardening inserts (but not foil...). What a coincidence! Makes me wonder who is running the show.

Question #1 : Can anyone tell me how much $$$ BP contributes to the WCF?



All of this controversy obviously hurts a small company with momentum like HL trying to make a name for itself than a well established one with much greater financial stability and resources like BP.

Question #2 : Why run these tests AFTER the season? We are not to test a new pharmaceutical drug or a new line of aircrafts. We are talking about testing a curling BROOM! It cannot be that difficult.



Yeah, normally I would say check your tin foil hat at the door but... this sure seems fishy.

BP has thrown a lot of money around at the top end of curling (and at the WCF/Curling Canada) and it sure looks like there is a significant conflict of interest going on here. Even if there isn't a true conflict, the appearance of a conflict of interest is tainting the messaging.

(Not to mention how they're screwing over Hardline in trying to get into compliance for the every changing rules they seem to be setting.)

As a further note, Curl BC has posted that they will be following this ruling as well, as this has been sent out by Curling Canada in a notice to officials for Curling Canada events. Great timing... since playdowns for junior events start today. Nothing like giving kids (who seem to like the Hardline brooms) any chance to get used to changing things before throwing them into the deep end.

You want to kill participation in competitive curling? This kind of half-baked ruling will do it. Teams can't afford to replace brooms, and don't get a chance to get used to the changes... it's idiotic.

I hope Hardline sues them silly. And I hope that players who bought those brooms in good faith do the same. And that it costs the associations a bundle. Maybe then the curling hierarchy might realize that it's not all about the "elite" and "good old boys" that keeps the sport alive.

I did send my concerns to the WCF, and I suggest others do the same (and I even kept it polite). I'm sure those messages are going right into the trash, but maybe we can keep rattling the WCF/Curling Canada into actually trying to be a transparent and clear organizations.

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11-20-15 03:22PM
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MNIceman
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 159

quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
Is it true that Glenn Howard's coach, Scott Taylor,is president of Balance Plus?


Yes.

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11-20-15 03:44PM
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JustAnotherHack
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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by curlky


Performing a test is easy. Developing a test protocol is hard (and has never been done). In order to perform a test, here is a brief partial list of what needs to be done in no particular order

- Come up with some repeatable mechanical way to test the effectiveness of a broom. Do you measure just the grit like with sandpaper? Do you measure if there is a uniform pattern, or somehow a "directionality" in the grit?

- Determine what makes a broom actually work? Is it scratches on the ice? Is it a temperature change?

- Determine which components of a broom make a difference. Is it fabric texture? Is it foam backing? Is it plastic inserts? Is it surface area?

failure to learn all of this leads to a situation wherein people will say

It is the fabric directionality. No, it is the plastic backing. etc.

Overall, so little is actually know about the physics of curling and sweeping, and developing a valid test will take some time



And you forgot to include the sweeping motion itself. Is it the way people sweep that cause the problem (i.e., the snow plow)?

I don't think anyone would say this is easy, but it needs to be done.

However, the arbitrary way that the WCF (and now Curling Canada and other associations) are handling this stinks. It seems like they're adding more and more restriction based upon whatever complaints a certain company and their "elite" teams are coming up with. And given the cozy relationship that that company and the WCF/Curling Canada has... well, I hope you're all looking forward to paying more in fees to Curling Canada after the upcoming lawsuits.

I can't believe how stupid and non-transparent this is. Not that I'm surprised, since it seems like that transparency is a foreign concept to almost every curling organization. But until it starts biting them in the arse, it won't change.

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11-20-15 04:29PM
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Alice
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 324

Hey Brian P., Invite the press out to San Francisco's Union Square Saturday morning 8:30am for an early morning learn-to-curl and demo at the outdoor ice. We might then be the first to get video press coverage on our Left Coast for this broom-gate. Someone will need to bring one of the newly illegal brooms... Now, if we can only find some older curlers to bring out the corn brooms for a slap/slap/slap demo that would be something the radio press would love. I will bring at least one old flat corn broom.

Seriously, this story is a great hook to get non-Olympic-year press coverage for our clubs.

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11-20-15 04:31PM
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rbunten
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 8

Gerry, would love to hear your thoughts on this.

From an article you posted:
-----------------
What followed was a week of tension between the players, until a breakthrough was had on Saturday evening at when two teams involved in Wednesdays accusations over cheating came together and tested each others and other brushes. These two teams tested the Norway Pad, the EQ and the inverted icePad on a variation of hit weight shots.
By the end of it, the two teams had come together and agreed that all three brush pads were showing similar results, to a point where Ill shut my mouth now, was uttered by one of the players on the team laying accusations of cheating against the others and both teams came together a sorted out their differences on the ice.
-----------------

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the tests mentioned above included the plastic insert, and were using the original Hardline cover, but inverted. So actual teams involved in the accusations could NOT identify any difference between the original inverted IcePad, the EQ, and the Norway.

So why has Glenn Howard teed off against the Hardline insert? Has he not spoken to the teams mentioned above? Why has the WCF suddenly banned both the fabric and the insert, after previously only requiring it to be inverted?

What possible real testing could Howard and the WCF done that was better than what you mentioned actual players saying "I'll shut my mouth now" did, to justify this swift and sudden action?

Been using a Balance Plus broom for years. Even had it signed by Team Howard at the Hamilton Brier. It currently has a Norway pad on it. The way this has all gone down, I'm on the verge of buying an IcePad out of sheer moral outrage.

Last edited by rbunten on 11-20-15 at 05:16PM

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11-20-15 05:16PM
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JustAnotherHack
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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
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And yet the WCF banned the inserts as well.

Makes me think they're taking their marching orders from BalancePlus on this half-baked brushing equipment rule.

I hope that someone looks at the "sealed" fabric brooms as well and tests them along with the ones they tested over that evening. Maybe then we can determine if it's the brooms or if it's the sweeping technique... or at least rule out some things.

Right now, it just seems like the WCF is just making up rules off of the top of their heads (or based upon certain companies and competitors screaming the loudest) without actually having any real evidence to back up their decisions. Surprise surprise.

Too bad Curling Canada isn't stepping up and pushing back... this is chance for some real leadership to take charge of the issue and it's just not happening.

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