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| 04-12-16 05:33PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
quote:
Originally posted by GreatCanadian
You pick a skip and lead from Koe's team;you pick a second and 3rd from Jacobs team, and pick Jacobs team as the best. Again, logic lacking. And stating that a team cannot be the best in the world without an Olympic gold hanging around their neck is absurd.
i never said that a team cant be best in the world with an olympic gold, that was someone else and id appreciate you addressing them,not me about it.
Last edited by misty1 on 04-12-16 at 05:37PM
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| 04-12-16 05:35PM |
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Nine Ender
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2009
Location:
Posts: 338 |
Re: Re: Re: Kevin Koe just may be
quote:
Originally posted by misty1
finally something we agree on. i would say russ's dream team is number 1 all time. closely followed by glenn's team in that 2007-2012 period. third would be kevin's team that had kennedy, hebert and morris.
i think that win in the semi over northern ontario had an element of luck to it. any time you win by a measure of a biter it takes luck. not to mention the fact that i thought they were being out played in that semi but brad let them off on unusual misses from him a couple times.
they played brilliantly in the final and deserved to win that final once they got there but what im saying is they got some luck to get out of that semi
It's a rare year when the winning team doesn't get a lucky break somewhere on the path. That's the nature of the sport. A one loss world event though overseas is a steller accomplishment. We'll never know if Jacobs would have matched, but it's good to note we hadn't won one in a few years and Koe himself was one of our most recent winners. I think Liang is underrated, he's been on so many winners has to mean something, he just doesn't physically look like a prototypical second.
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| 04-12-16 06:01PM |
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GreatCanadian
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 77 |
quote:
Originally posted by misty1
i never said that a team cant be best in the world with an olympic gold, that was someone else and id appreciate you addressing them,not me about it.
Yes, I was aware of that, and that comment was not directed at you. I should have made that clear in my post. I apologize for that.
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| 04-12-16 06:07PM |
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curlky
Drawmaster
Registered: Oct 2013
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I suppose I lost track of which thread this discussion was in. I assumed it was in the "Kevin Koe: Best Ever?" thread, and was too lazy to scroll to the top to read. My point, is to be the best ever, you need the Olympics, assuming you were in the Olympic era.
As for current best team, I would say that if you win a world championship in relative convincing fashion, it is fair to say that your team is operating as the current best in teh world, especially if the field was considered normal and fiar (in other words not every other country was upsets on who went to worlds). So I think it is fair to think he is currently the best.
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| 04-12-16 06:18PM |
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MBTuck
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 82 |
Re: Re: Re: Kevin Koe just may be
quote:
Originally posted by misty1
finally something we agree on. i would say russ's dream team is number 1 all time. closely followed by glenn's team in that 2007-2012 period. third would be kevin's team that had kennedy, hebert and morris.
i think that win in the semi over northern ontario had an element of luck to it. any time you win by a measure of a biter it takes luck. not to mention the fact that i thought they were being out played in that semi but brad let them off on unusual misses from him a couple times.
they played brilliantly in the final and deserved to win that final once they got there but what im saying is they got some luck to get out of that semi
Your one argument against Team Koe was that they were lucky to win that semi. Well Team Jacobs were lucky to go thru the round robin like they did.
Also Kennedy knew that rock was in the whole time. And Jacobs couldnt do anything about it as they were chasing that whole end. Team Koe played the end as if it was in. I wouldnt really call that lucky.
Also i have no idea how you came up with Denni and Benny as the two best leads. Maybe in terms of shot making they are close. But Benny is hands down a much better sweeper and a better overall lead. Probably the best in all of curling. That has to count for something. It feels like you just make up your arguments as you go, without any logic behind it, letting your emotions dictate everything.
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| 04-12-16 06:40PM |
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MBTuck
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 82 |
quote:
Originally posted by misty1
i see someone posted a reply to a deleted post of mine but it is where i stand.
i'll reply to all 4 since i dont feel like posting 4 times to the same thing:
i do not rank teams based on my dislike of them or based off emotion. so anyone calling me over emotional can just let that go. i rank these teams based off of what i think their upside is. and then combine it with talent and athletic ability. in my book the top is jacobs and then its really close with gushue, mcewen and koe.
when i look at all 4 teams this is where i think best positions are:
skip - koe
third- fry and nichols tied
second - harnden
lead - hebert and neufeld tied
If ranking on upside i can understand how someone can put Harnden as the best second. But at third- Fry and Nichols better than Kennedy? Fry is maybe the worst sweeper on tour. Kennedy is better at the soft game than both of these guys. Nichols throws it the hardest but accuracy wise Fry and Kennedy probably are slightly better. In terms of strategy Fry and Kennedy are once again close. Id also give the edge to Kennedy with how he is on the ice as a teammate (positive, vocal, etc) IF you want to combine talent and athletic ability Kennedy probably trumps both of these guys.
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| 04-12-16 06:47PM |
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GreatCanadian
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 77 |
quote:
Originally posted by MBTuck
If ranking on upside i can understand how someone can put Harnden as the best second. But at third- Fry and Nichols better than Kennedy? Fry is maybe the worst sweeper on tour. Kennedy is better at the soft game than both of these guys. Nichols throws it the hardest but accuracy wise Fry and Kennedy probably are slightly better. In terms of strategy Fry and Kennedy are once again close. Id also give the edge to Kennedy with how he is on the ice as a teammate (positive, vocal, etc) IF you want to combine talent and athletic ability Kennedy probably trumps both of these guys.
I'm with you on this. I think Mark Nichols during his Olympic run, and the years prior to curling with Stoughton in Manitoba were some of the best games ever curled by a third. But he is not at that level today certainly. I think hands down Kennedy is the best of the 3. What he adds to the game outside shot making makes him stand out in my opinion.
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| 04-12-16 06:55PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Kevin Koe just may be
quote:
Originally posted by MBTuck
Your one argument against Team Koe was that they were lucky to win that semi. Well Team Jacobs were lucky to go thru the round robin like they did.
Also Kennedy knew that rock was in the whole time. And Jacobs couldnt do anything about it as they were chasing that whole end. Team Koe played the end as if it was in. I wouldnt really call that lucky.
Also i have no idea how you came up with Denni and Benny as the two best leads. Maybe in terms of shot making they are close. But Benny is hands down a much better sweeper and a better overall lead. Probably the best in all of curling. That has to count for something. It feels like you just make up your arguments as you go, without any logic behind it, letting your emotions dictate everything.
thats now how i operate at all, its what i really genuinely believe and how i see thing. deal with the fact that i dont agree with you and move on
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| 04-12-16 07:01PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
quote:
Originally posted by MBTuck
If ranking on upside i can understand how someone can put Harnden as the best second. But at third- Fry and Nichols better than Kennedy? Fry is maybe the worst sweeper on tour. Kennedy is better at the soft game than both of these guys. Nichols throws it the hardest but accuracy wise Fry and Kennedy probably are slightly better. In terms of strategy Fry and Kennedy are once again close. Id also give the edge to Kennedy with how he is on the ice as a teammate (positive, vocal, etc) IF you want to combine talent and athletic ability Kennedy probably trumps both of these guys.
in my personally opinion i view fry and mark as better. fry and mark are both great shot makers and in great shape and both work really well with their skips. and i think they do what they do better than mark. the one advantage mark has the edge in is sweeping but thats not enough for me
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| 04-12-16 07:28PM |
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MBTuck
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 82 |
quote:
Originally posted by GreatCanadian
I'm with you on this. I think Mark Nichols during his Olympic run, and the years prior to curling with Stoughton in Manitoba were some of the best games ever curled by a third. But he is not at that level today certainly. I think hands down Kennedy is the best of the 3. What he adds to the game outside shot making makes him stand out in my opinion.
I agree. While Nichols is still exceptional, he isnt the best third in the world, which is essentially what we are arguing. I think him and BJ are a better argument. BJ might be a slightly better shotmaker but Mark makes up for it in other aspects of the game.
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