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M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M7 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00pm CT
Lannoye Final
Hebert (10) Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald Final
Cenzalli (10) Watch Live Curling!
Brenden Final
Church (9) Watch Live Curling!
Guentzel Final
Rose (6) Watch Live Curling!
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 4:00pm CT
Berg Final
Scheel (10) Watch Live Curling!
Berg Final
Schapman (10) Watch Live Curling!
Giroux 10  Final
Pekowitz (9) Watch Live Curling!
Viau Final
Johnson (10) Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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01-14-15 01:55PM
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bcpatrick
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: California
Posts: 19

MoPac Clubs

While you're following the Junior Nationals scores this weekend, you can check out the MoPac Regional Playdowns at the Coyotes Curling Club's brand new facility in Arizona. 16 Men's and 5 Women's teams will take the ice from January 16-19.

Broadcast will be on the Coyotes YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9...tgUd60o0mkmxlpw

Draw information and teams are here:
http://www.mopacca.org/club-nationals-2015/

Last edited by bcpatrick on 01-14-15 at 01:59PM

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01-15-15 12:57PM
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VAcurler
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Sounds like a fun event with lots of curling (4 double round robins on the men's side). One thing I'd like to point out to the lurkers is that each team has to provide three volunteer timers during their byes. I think that's a great way to time games when volunteers are short and also helps individuals see where time gets spent.

Good luck to all participants.

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01-15-15 01:34PM
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biterbar
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Interesting that the rules say 32 minutes thinking time for 8 end games. I take it 10 end games are not a requirement?

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01-15-15 01:41PM
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mr. lucky
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Seriously? You have the competitors timing games. Are they certified?

The spirit of curling aside, this is a huge conflict of interest. I can see grievance filings galore if a team runs out of time.

I don’t know of any region that even times their regional playdowns. The head official makes sure games move along in a timely manor.

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01-15-15 01:42PM
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VAcurler
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GNCC has always timed all playdown games.

MACA/At Large will be timing games this weekend (games start Friday morning).

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01-15-15 02:05PM
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mr. lucky
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And the competitors are timing?

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01-15-15 02:06PM
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VAcurler
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At this weekend's playdowns in Denver? No.

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01-15-15 02:20PM
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rbi
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grievance filings galore

nah, it works pretty well actually. In part because MoPac, specifically Mike Lively and Brian Patrick, have done an outstanding job organizing and coordinating the MoPac championships (and club national playdowns). Teams are treated well, and they in turn do what they can to help make the event more professional for everybody. including sharing the timing work.

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01-15-15 03:49PM
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dbsdbs
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Curious that all games are 8 ends when USCA championship rules say that games in USCA regional and national championships shall be 10-end games.

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01-15-15 04:13PM
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VAcurler
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In the past MOPAC had to rent ice for playdowns so they went to 8 end games due to time and cost restraints. This year they have days with 5 draws to fit the playdown in a reasonable amount of time.

Personally I think this is a good think and I would rather have 8 end games than have to start on Thursday (or Wednesday!) Even then they are ending on Monday (a holiday).

Not that I have any say or a vested interest, but I think what they are doing is a good thing.

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01-15-15 07:19PM
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Alice
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quote:
Originally posted by rbi
grievance filings galore

nah, it works pretty well actually. In part because MoPac, specifically Mike Lively and Brian Patrick, have done an outstanding job organizing and coordinating the MoPac championships (and club national playdowns). Teams are treated well, and they in turn do what they can to help make the event more professional for everybody. including sharing the timing work.



There was plenty of whining and moaning in past years by competitors forced to serve as timers in past MoPac playdowns. "I'm too tired to do that!!" rather than serious allegations of bias. Making them time a few draws or even just a few ends not only teaches them how to work with a clock and a timer but also to appreciate the very hard work timers do. Besides, any time a clock starts running down, at least one other official - certified or not - is doing on-ice supervision and/or timing supervisor duty so the over-worked timer has solid backup.

MoPac knows well it is handicapped having fewer dedicated ice clubs so giving its teams practice with timers in playdown is an advantage it will take.

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01-20-15 12:28AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Feb 2011
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Hey all,

This is Michael Lively....I'm more than happy to address any, and all, of the points here regarding MoPac Playdowns.

But let's start here
1. For anyone concerned with peer timing....I'd like to address specific concerns...so, feel free to list as many as you have identified
2. If you believe 10 ends is mandatory, please cite the rule(s)
3. There has never been 'plenty of whining' from the competitors....let's make that clear. Like any aspect of organizing a playdown there are always going to be concerns that need to get discussed and timing on one of your draws off is a concern. That's nothing unexpected. There are lots of issues to discuss around the format, the draw times, the host's responsibilities, ice crew's requests/concerns, etc... they all get discussed in committee and get hammered out (and we do have pretty good communication with our teams).
4. I like to take responsibility for what I say....so, I think it'd be great if you would identify yourself if you'd like to discuss our playdowns. Especially if you're in a different region or an official of some kind. This dialogue is not unwelcome.

Thanks
Michael

Last edited by livem1 on 01-20-15 at 12:48AM

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01-20-15 11:29AM
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VAcurler
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Registered: Jan 2012
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Mike,
a couple of quick questions.
1. Was 2:30 between the start of 1 game and the start of the next practice enough time?

2. Was there a 4th end break and if so, for how long?

3. How often did you scrape?

If the future of competitive club curling is 8 end games, we might as well learn how to do it well before then.

Jason
(Denver Curling Club)

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01-20-15 11:54AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: California
Posts: 19

Hey Jason -

Brian Patrick here - Michael and I (with our competition committee) organized the playdown. There were some initial concerns from the ice maker that thinking time would screw up our draw schedule, but we did surprisingly well on time, so 2:30 was plenty of time.

We scheduled a scrape every night, as well as a scrape mid day - So, before draw 3, 7, 13, and before the final. We obviously left all this in the hands of the ice crew, who did a fantastic job.

We did not have a 4th end break.

Just to add to what Michael said, MoPac, much like MACA, is all about grass roots curling. I can't exactly call up one of our "head officials" because we don't have any. We didn't use certified timers (only 2-3 in the whole region) - but are there ANY timers in the US that are actually certified on thinking time? We added 2 minutes to the standard time as a "timing error buffer". Our primary reason for timing is to get in our 8 ends. Before the region made the investment in timing equipment, slow play was the norm, and our competitive players suffered for it.

We did not have a single competitor at this event come up to me and say they had a problem with how we timed these games. I understand concerns raised by people from other regions, and am happy to address them, but I think our participation numbers show that people in the region are satisfied with how the events are run and are eager to compete.

Brian Patrick
President, MoPac

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01-20-15 11:57AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Feb 2011
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Hey Jason,

1. 2:30 was enough time between the end of a draw and the start of the next draw's practice time. We work through a basic draw for the # of teams registered in our MoPac competitions committee and immediately turn it around to the ice committee (as well as other persons/committees) at the host club for their comments.

Even with adding 2 mins to each team's thinking time and an allowance for a 1 min time out....I think the longest I ever saw a game go was 2:05 (well, unless there was an extra end). The players understand the ice crew can go out and sweep/mop sheets at anytime after a sheet is complete, if they feel they need to do so. Crews can easily knock out sheet prep in 15 mins. An ice king issue this weekend was the only cause for a delay to any of our 17 draws.

2. No 4th end break. As far as I know, only 10 end games have a break.

3. Coyotes did a mid day scrape each day

And Jason....I'll look forward to meeting you at some point soon as I'm moving from SF to Colorado. I've been going back and forth and subbed in one night at DCC and will be there full-time soon (March?) and 'individually' on the waitlist (I believe) for the Feb spiel. Pam or Matt can point me out if you're ever wanting to chat. Did you curl at Potomac previously (VAcurler)?

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01-20-15 12:02PM
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AlanMacNeill
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Yes, there are timers in the US trained and certified in thinking time.

I'm one of them...it came with serving at the Continental Cup last season.

Admittedly, it's a CCA cert, not a USCA cert...but...well...I'm willing to bet it crosses

Also, something to keep in mind...*timing* is not considered a decision making position in the US rules, as such, it can be done by anyone who is willing and has been trained. Said training can be as simple as the head official taking 5 minutes to show someone how to do it.

*Certification* isn't required (Hell...how could it be, since you have to time draws in order to get certified?).

The timing supervisor must be certified as a timer, but that's because they are in a decision making capacity (they make rulings on the spot on how to handle resolving timing errors).

We go by the book in the GNCC because...well...Northeast...rules are kinda our thing

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01-20-15 12:10PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: California
Posts: 19

Thanks, Alan -

I know there are some officials in Seattle that can run clinics, so we're trying to get one or two of those kicked off before next year. Ultimately, I think it would be great to run it in conjunction with our playdown so that we could have "real" officials on sight, and start to develop that pool of officials within our region. It's just tough with only two dedicated facilities.

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01-20-15 01:17PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Ha....well, Bri beat me to that first response.

Just to add a bit more on our choice to do peer timing.

- 2 years ago was the last playdown season we had that had no timing. For example, I'll take the M's playdown....we had 32 RR Men's games and a tight schedule so we had to enforce time limits. So, we did what many clubs do on league nights and rang the bell. My estimate at the time was that a min of 20% of the games didn't go the full 8 (maybe 25%). This is unfair to not only 1 team...but, both teams. Actually, I'll also throw in on the W's that year. We had a team that I think might have never made 8 ends in 5 RR games and ALMOST didn't make 7 once. That's when we said...no more, we're timing. (FWIW no tiebreak/PO games instituted 'the bell' I believe)

- Since we've instituted timing....we have NOT had one single issue in our region (running out of time, timing complaint, etc). Between M's, W's, Mixed and a California event....that's 140 games in 2 competitive seasons (so far...we have another 40-50 to go).

We've had computer crashes or a mis-hit button....but we handle it. No different than if someone slipped in the house and displaced 4 rocks....you do what's reasonable to make it right. And everyone figures it out. Also, when we started, Brian was really proactive and got a hold of all the officiating forms and each timer uses the Official Game Record (OGR) form. 90+% of the time, I'd say that form has every 'i' dotted and 't' crossed by the end of a draw. This includes the times for each team after each end...which would help us if a comp were to crash to reconstruct a bit within reason. I don't find meticulousness on the computer shocking at all...but, I do find it a bit shocking that all the timers make sure take the time to detail that form out after each end :D

[p.s. and the skips all sign them coming off the ice]

Regarding this year's M's/W's Playdowns:
- For the record, each team was not 'required' to put forth 3 timers for this M's/W's playdown...only 2. When you see a team with a 3rd timing assignment....it's because they wanted to help out more to fill out our draw. Love 'em.
- For the TB/PO games...again, volunteers from the teams not competing any longer.
- Each team was allowed to pick 3 preferences for timing assignments for their one placement. So there was flexibility and every team was placed in their preferences. (I'd have to ask...but, I think nearly everyone got 1st or 2nd choice)
- For the men, no team was assigned to time a team in their own group and for the women, they only timed men's games.


For those say that this opens the door to some kind of grievance....I suppose that's always a possibility. However, I'd say this based on the past 2 years....
- The ONLY time a game has even come close to time...is when a team has a big bank and chose to let some run at the end of a game. I'm sure a couple here there might've gotten under a minute for last stone...but, that's no emergency...and definitely their own fault because we always build in 2 extra minutes (not some timing error)

- We have big playdowns as everyone knows. Only maybe once in the last 4 competitive seasons has any region had more M's/W's teams than us. This means LOTS of games because we do our best to use whatever prescriptive methods the USCA lists for our number of teams. We had 63 games this past weekend. In addition to the volunteers the host club put up...there's no way we could've gotten 21 people to do 8 hrs each or 6 people to do 20+ hrs each or anything in between. We have had host volunteers do some of the games.

- We've found that 'the spirit of curling' carries the same weight on and off the ice out here for these events and timing...and every individual at our event fosters that. NOBODY does anything but their best when they sit down to time. We've heard the argument that this open to bias...and to tell you the truth bias has almost ZERO weight here. If you think that an individual can't be trusted or do their best...then, what you're really saying is that other people have every right to not trust you or to think that you'd be biased. Whether I'm on the ice or off in a lg game or a spiel....I work to make sure that I give everyone no reason to believe that I'm doing anything but my best and being a good opponent....and doesn't even cross my mind as a 'go to' towards anyone else.

I'm sure Brian and I talked about this post with a minimum of 40 people over the weekend....and literally they either shook their heads or mini-laughed because they didn't find this system either a burden or a competitive issue.

Look, I curled in the GNCC for about 5 years and I know personalities can get a bit chippy when it comes to competition in a big and long established region. Every region has a person or 2 (or more) that really pushes the envelope of this. But, I'm really proud of how our region and competitors and committees and hosts have stepped up to accept all the unique conditions that come with being in a region like MoPac.

Last edited by livem1 on 01-20-15 at 01:34PM

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01-20-15 05:56PM
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Alice
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The "plenty" of complaining was in the "past" and was just the first year of peer timing, not "years". To me "plenty" meant more than one competitor not a majority. Sincere apologies for the implied grammar errors.

With MoPac Clubs growing from sign-up-and-go only a few years ago to hard fought playdowns in MoPac it is thrilling to see the competitors building new teams and now also many new rink lineups, especially those bringing along newer curlers. Some of these Clubs playdown curlers have also started to reach for nationals.... and isn't that one reason Clubs was created? To build our national pool of competitive curlers and teams? Hoping next year each region has well fought playdowns for Clubs and all the other national events, too.

Curlers in states with plenty of dedicated ice may not fully understand why a 2 hour 8-end game is welcomed in MoPac playdowns. Most of our curlers have had experience with arena ice league play which is almost always a 2-hour ice purchase. Not having a fifth end break is considered normal here. Having to pitch in before and after games moving around rocks, hacks, scoreboards, and all the ice prep, too, is normal, hence asking curlers to serve as timers is just par for the course, Also, making room on a playdown team for a new curler is also fairly normal since there are so many here. As dedicated ice spreads, I am hopeful those "good" things from arena ice traditions will remain especially those created by Brian and Michael.

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01-20-15 10:58PM
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Regarding number of ends, USA Curling Rules appear to require 10 end games but interesting that the rules may not be clear on this. USCA's 2014 "Rules of Curling and Competition" specify that all games shall be 8 ends for wheelchair curling [Sec 1, R13i], mixed curling [Sec 1, R14d] and mixed doubles [Sec 1, R15c]. The number of ends in other championships [Club, Arena, Nationals] are not specified anywhere except that Sec IV says "All games will be scheduled ten ends. Ties are full extra ends. At the Senior National Championships, Wheelchair National Championship, and Mixed Doubles Championship, all games will be eight ends." I assumed that 10 ends at nationals meant 10 ends at qualifying events too, but perhaps not? Kind of funny USCA has so many rules of competition but is not specific about this.

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01-22-15 05:14PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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yeah....i agree.

there are a few sub-sections in there that are confusing on whether they are talking national/regional.

anyway, the usca wants to have strong oversight and rules in place for a fair and open competition within regional events. they aren't going to quibble about 8 v 10. but, coming from our region....a few years ago and having to rent arena ice for 20+ teams....if we had to do 6e for cost reasons. there'd be nothing they could really say.

unless they wanted to throw some $ our way to do 8e.
we've had about 25% (+/-) of all nationally reg'd teams for m's, w's and mixed. the fees they make off of mopac alone has completely covered the cost of that club nat spiel for the last 4 years :D

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01-22-15 05:43PM
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biterbar
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Anyone ever win MOPAC, or are they still playing?

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01-23-15 05:53AM
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Results and team info are still posted on:
http://www.bonspieler.com/

I believe MoPac will be able be send 1 Mens and 2 Womens teams to Club Nationals.

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01-23-15 08:15AM
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All the qualified teams are listed here.
http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Curling/...Qualified-Teams

__________________
JH
Go Phils, got my WS bet on you

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01-23-15 08:56AM
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Thanks for the link, the field is rounding out nicely.

Wow, on a couple points.

The GLCA is waiting until February to crown their champ? Doesn't leave a whole lot of time to get ready.

Nice to see MOPAC get another team even though it is because Wisconsin can't find four women to go to Fargo in March.

Sather joins Stopera as fifth? No comment.

Where was "At Large" Played?

Will Jeff Wright allow anyone else from Illinois play at this event? I have seen the Northwestern team play and will be rooting for them.

Several team are very "experienced", unless these are their children. Where are the pictures?

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Curling Scores

M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M7 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00pm CT
Lannoye Final
Hebert (10) Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald Final
Cenzalli (10) Watch Live Curling!
Brenden Final
Church (9) Watch Live Curling!
Guentzel Final
Rose (6) Watch Live Curling!
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 4:00pm CT
Berg Final
Scheel (10) Watch Live Curling!
Berg Final
Schapman (10) Watch Live Curling!
Giroux 10  Final
Pekowitz (9) Watch Live Curling!
Viau Final
Johnson (10) Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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Homan Brings Home Gold

Homan Brings Home Gold

Sydney, Canada - In front of a full house with over 4,000 spectators, Canada (photo: Stephen Fisher, World Curling) beat Switzerland by 7-5 to take gold at the BKT Tires World Women's Curling Championship 2024.

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