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04-20-09 06:01PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Re: Re: The Curling Stone Speedtrap

quote:
Originally posted by DougSuerich
Is there any sort of output on the display box that can interface with a laptop? Auto-capture of data from this could be useful in charting rocks, etc.


No...there is no computer interface to do this currently. In fact, that's one of the elements of the $1800 Brower system that we stripped out specifically to save on costs. That said, I have been using the system to chart rocks to some degree already... the process of throwing stones is pretty slow to begin with...so the concern about logging times as a part of all the data that needs to be captured in order to get into a data modeling exercise was pretty low on my concerns list. Actually, I'm quite interested that you've brought the matter up Perhaps it is more important than I had imagined.

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04-20-09 06:08PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Re: Re: The Curling Stone Speedtrap

quote:
Originally posted by DougSuerich
I don't have a good feel for what speed a rock travels at. What speeds are you getting for a draw? a takeout?



Draws on 24 second ice (Hog to stop) typically cross the first hog line traveling about 2.625 meters per second.
A rocket-ship peel will run about 5.4 meters per second.

I am loving being able to "establish a number" in my mind...and then practice throwing that number. It's great, regardless of whether I'm throwing a guard, a tee-line draw or a peel. I have objective biofeedback without anyone else's assistance.

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04-20-09 06:12PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Re: Re: The Curling Stone Speedtrap

quote:
Originally posted by DougSuerich
What kind of batteries does it take? What is the battery life?



Currently it's set up so that each of the three boxes contains 4 C-cell batteries. I'll ask my engineer-brother what the anticipated life of a set of batteries is.

I know that he is looking at changing to AA cells.

What's your interest in this particular matter?

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04-20-09 06:21PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Re: Re: The Curling Stone Speedtrap

quote:
Originally posted by DougSuerich
Does your system compensate for line of delivery? It looks like you are measuring about a 3" distance of travel for a rock thrown straight down the center line. If I throw a rock aimed at the outside 12, the rock cuts across your speed trap on an angle, increasing the distance traveled by a small amount. Does that change anything?



What an interesting question! Not one that I'd considered, in fact!

But, now that you've thrown it out, we'll give it some thought. The answer will quite certainly be "yes," but my instinct is to say that the difference will be almost imperceptible. Here's what I will offer: you are correct, yourself...the additional distance traveled is small indeed.

Never the less...we'll work on this for you!

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04-20-09 06:27PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Re: Re: Re: The Curling Stone Speedtrap

quote:
Originally posted by hughmurf
What's your interest in this particular matter?


I want to win the Brier, what else?

Rather more realistically, if this works as described and you can sell it for $200 I'm pretty sure my club would buy at least one for general use. One concern would be finding an easy way to keep it supplied with batteries in a club setting, ideally rechargeables.

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04-20-09 06:46PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Curling Stone Speedtrap

quote:
Originally posted by DougSuerich
One concern would be finding an easy way to keep it supplied with batteries in a club setting, ideally rechargeables.


Ok... the answer is in. The C cells will allow the system to be left on for about 115 hours. So that's the life after which you'd need to replace the batteries.

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04-20-09 09:26PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Re: Re: The Curling Stone Speedtrap

quote:
Originally posted by DougSuerich
Does your system compensate for line of delivery? It looks like you are measuring about a 3" distance of travel for a rock thrown straight down the center line. If I throw a rock aimed at the outside 12, the rock cuts across your speed trap on an angle, increasing the distance traveled by a small amount. Does that change anything?



Ok... with a bit of help from Pythagoras we have calculated the additional distance that the stone will travel as it passes thru the beams at an angle that corresponds to throwing at the corner of the 12ft rather than dead down the middle of the sheet. With the distance between the light beams (about 4inches being the thickness of the hog line) the increased distansce the stone has to travel if it's running at the corner of the 12ft is a grand 1.172 milimeters. Worked it out in inches, it comes to 0.0462".

That's slightly less than a 1% increase in measurement length. So, I'm gonna take my chances and say that this isn't going to affect the speed reading very much...but we'll continue with this arithmetic anyway.

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04-21-09 12:25PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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I spoke out of school...

I conferred with my engineer/brother...and he laughed at my use of Pythagorean calculations. He offered a trigonometric estimation instead:

"Leave the engineering to me, dude. The extra distance the stone has to travel between the two beams is actually 90.65 thousandths of a millimeter (aka 91 micrometers). This amounts to an increase in length of 0.113%. Essentially, if the guy's speed reading would have been 1.435 m/s it would have clocked at about 1.434 m/s. Considering we're really only aiming for + or - 0.01 m/s, it doesn't really factor in."

I might pick this back up with him...but for now, I'll leave the arithmetic to him. I'll report back if I can beat him down on this matter.

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04-21-09 01:49PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hughmurf
"Leave the engineering to me, dude. The extra distance the stone has to travel between the two beams is actually 90.65 thousandths of a millimeter (aka 91 micrometers). This amounts to an increase in length of 0.113%."


I ran the trig myself, and got the same answer as your brother. So suffice it to say the difference is negligible.

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04-21-09 03:51PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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quote:
Originally posted by DougSuerich
I ran the trig myself, and got the same answer as your brother. So suffice it to say the difference is negligible.


Well...bully for the two of you.
(I'll leave the arithmetic alone from here on.)
I'm pleased to have it double checked and confirmed...in any case...Thx!

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06-21-09 05:06PM
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Hey there,

Is there any chance of getting one of these for the $200.00 you spoke of or are you still in the testing phase? I am working with some High Performance athletes and run a bunch of clinics and know that this system would be incredibly helpful with the features you have mentioned.

My e-mail address is kenedmac at shaw.ca if you want to let me know the status of your product.

Thanks

Ken

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07-03-09 01:24PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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In production!

We're currently producing Curling Stone Speedtraps! (Very exciting for us.) We built them ourselves after receiving feedback from a group of people that tested the version 1 systems pictured above. Building them ourselves, we have found, isn't really cost effective, so we're speaking with some firms that may be able to put larger scale production of these together.

We have completyed a small production run of 50 version 2 systems. Most of the 50 version 2 systems are spoken for...but we're retaining a number of these as trial units.

Let us know if you'd like to trial or order one.

murf.

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07-07-09 06:39PM
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HI everyone,

Check out my post called "Rock Timer." We have developed a product with the capabilities of the speed trap plus a few extra features. Its an alternative option if you want to be able to do more. Let me know what you think!

Brandon Corbett (Inventor of "AccuShot Rock Timer")

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07-09-09 02:20PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Location: Mississauga
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Brandon...

Thanks for your note about the Accushot. Sounds like you've developed a good tool, too.

As GregW points out, however, the US$730 = CN$860 = more than most curlers will spend. It's a good deal less costly than Mark Brower's $1,800 system that I discussed earlier in this thread...but it's still too expensive for most individuals (or even teams.) At least that's our thinking.

Again, our objective with the SpeedTrap is to make a tool that is accessible and affordable but, above all, very functional. The SpeedTrap isn't about bells and whistles; we've stripped all of those away and we have focused only on two things:

1) Essential instantaneous biofeedback for the athlete

and

2) Precision of speed measurement for the icemaker.

Clubs may find your $860 a reasonable cost, however. Especially if you build software that will help them map the stones and match them.

We've been taking a more simple approach to using the device in stone matching. In matching stones with the SpeedTrap, users will have to set up a series of the SpeedTrap’s eyes – much as JohnMinnaar sugested in the icemakers' thread – and log speeds manually. These will then have to be input – again manually – into a spreadsheet that is designed to make the deceleration calculations for the rock matching process.

The long and short... The SpeedTrap's process is certainly not as elegant as the Accushot's promise of automatic stone matching! So, I suspect you'll still find demand for your more sophisticated product...even at more than three times the price of the SpeedTrap.

Murf.

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07-12-09 11:08AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Extended Battery Life - An Act of Green

quote:
Originally posted by hughmurf


Ok... the answer is in. The C cells will allow the system to be left on for about 115 hours. So that's the life after which you'd need to replace the batteries.



Not that it's a big deal, but the prototypes were updated after a ton of testing. As a result, the updated SpeedTrap has a reduced power consumption. The battery life anticipated is thus extended from 115 hrs of continuous use to 153 hrs.

How's that for an Act of Green, George!

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07-12-09 10:04PM
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When is the next manufacturing run and what kind of feedback are you getting from the people who bought the first run? (if any since not curling season)

how many and what type of drills do you see this product?

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07-13-09 07:22PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
how many and what type of drills do you see this product?


It strikes me that there are a set of very obvious drills that one should work on with this tool. Below is one. I'll offer a few others in subsequent notes. And, if you have ideas...please do offer them.

1. Work on Throwing the Same Speed (This is a natural.)
Use bio-feedback to improve your ability to throw the same speed time after time. Normally you might throw stone after stone and assess the consistency of your weight by seeing how far your stone travels. (A pretty important exercise, we¡¦ll grant you that.)

a. Prepare yourself in the hack to throw a stone as you normally would.

b. Deliver your stone paying particular attention to the feeling of the strength of your drive from the hack.

c. Release the stone -- as you always should -- before the hog-line.

d. Immediately review your stone's speed on the display.

e. Internalize the speed output from the display and associate it with the feeling of the strength of your drive from the hack.

f. Try to duplicate the same speed with subsequent deliveries.

As a part of this exercise (and others)Verbalize to Create a Contract with Yourself
You might find this odd, but verbalizing will almost certainly help you improve. When you are using the SpeedTrap, you should:
1. Always think of the speed that you want to throw
2. Verbalize (yes, aloud) the speed that you want to throw before you deliver
3. Deliver with the intention of sliding at the speed that is your objective... and then, immediately
4. Observe the actual result, i.e., the speed on the display
5. Verbalize (again aloud) the actual speed.
6. Assess the actual relative to the desired.
7. If your actual and desired speeds were:
-- the same (or almost the same), say, good control; a positive affirmation.
-- too slow relative to the desired speed, say, too slow, I¡¦ll drive a little harder
-- too fast, say, too fast, Ill drive a little slower.
These short, simple vocal affirmations are the completion of your contract with yourself. They are praise if you were successful and constructive criticism if you were not successful with your last shot. At the completion of this contract, you put it aside and move to the next shot¡Kmuch like you must learn to do during a game.

Note:
Verbalizing/vocalizing both the objectives and the results during the exercise is a very constructive part of the learning process. It will almost certainly improve the results of your training. Training silently -- with your thoughts occurring only in your head -- will generally produce inferior results. Verbalizing does a number of things:

1. It forces you to concentrate more on your task at hand. This, in itself, will improve the quality of your training efforts.

2. It objectifies both your goal and your acceptance of the results. This makes you more accountable for what you intend to do and what you actually do. Essentially, when you state your goal overtly, you create a contract with yourself. Immediately after you throw, you assess the quality of your performance and you admit this assessment overtly. Then you decide what corrective action you will commit to in order to improve.

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07-15-09 10:40PM
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The Price.

$250. That's the price.
(I know, I said in an earlier post that the price might be $200...but we just can't do that.)

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07-16-09 04:18PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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System Callibration

If anyone has worked with one of the few other systems that have been designed to do a similar sort of thing to The SpeedTrap, could you explain the callibration isues and/or process that you've experienced?

A few people have asked how hard it is to callibrate The SpeedTrap...because callibrating is apparently a pain in the butt with other systems. I don't properly understand what callibration these systems are forcing people to do. The SpeedTrap doesn`t make users do any callibrating.

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07-19-09 02:26AM
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YouTube

OK. It took me a while...but I have taken the video that we recorded back in March `09 and I've made a YouTube of it.

Please appreciate that what you're looking at in this YouTube is our prototype version 1. The decals are simply taped onto the unit...and they look pretty sad. The units that we've produced look rather better than these. Regardless, the system is wonderfully precise.

Have a look!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYgMlbmo_78

Questions, comments and concerns will be appreciated!

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07-22-09 12:05PM
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I have read all your information regarding the speed trap and would like to order. How do we contact you? This is a wonderful tool for wheelchair curlers.

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07-22-09 12:55PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Sobkowicz
I have read all your information regarding the speed trap and would like to order. How do we contact you? This is a wonderful tool for wheelchair curlers.


Are you working with Wendy Morgan?
Wil you be in Edmonton later this week/month?

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07-22-09 02:34PM
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Yes.....Wendy is the Team Leader for Team Canada. I'm just off to Edmonton this afternoon for a Team Canada High Performance session at the Saville Centre. You can also reach me at csobkowicz@winnipeg.ca

Sounds like you have a real winner. I'd like to test your product. I think it will be perfect for my training needs.

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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Sobkowicz
Yes.....Wendy is the Team Leader for Team Canada. I'm just off to Edmonton this afternoon for a Team Canada High Performance session at the Saville Centre. You can also reach me at csobkowicz@winnipeg.ca

Sounds like you have a real winner. I'd like to test your product. I think it will be perfect for my training needs.



Well...we're delivering a bunch of them to the Saville later this week for your use...so I'll look forward to getting your direct feedback on them.

Actually, it was CCA's Paul Webster that arranged for The SpeedTraps...but I know Wendy from the curling scene in this neighbourhood...and when I spoke with her a couple of weeks ago she indicated that she'd be in Edmonton this coming weekend...specifically to do with her work with your group.

I hope it goes well for you! (And I sure hope The SpeedTrap systems live up to your expectations!)

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07-25-09 07:52AM
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If you want icemaker feed back, can always talk to me at Saville.

Dan

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Curling Scores

M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Mon, Mar 18 -- 7:00pm AT
Gagn/Mori Final
Rees/Ches (EE)
Sand/Crai Final
Gamb/Kalt (8)
Arms/Grif Final
Pete/Gall (7) Watch Live Curling!
Zhen/Piet Final
Gion/Desj (7)
Wasy/Koni Final
Jone/Lain (EE)
Wise/Smit 12  Final
Weag/Eppi (6)
Lott/Lott 12  Final
Bouc/Char (7)
Krev/Math Final
Whit/Whit (6)
M: Aberdeen International Curling Championship
Aberdeen, SCO
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 2:45pm GMT
Mouat Final
Shuster (7)
D: WCT Slovakia Mixed Doubles Cup II
Bratislava, SVK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 12:00pm CET
Han/Zou Final
Paul/Paul (7)
Cihl/Mace Final
Yang/Tian 10  (6)
: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
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Draw: 4 -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 10:00am MT
Delorey Final
Koe (5)
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Canadian mixed doubles championship starts in Fredericton on Sunday

Canadian mixed doubles championship starts in Fredericton on Sunday

Marlee Powers and Luke Saunders of Halifax, Nova Scotia won 6-5 over Papley/van Amsterdam in the opening draw streamed on Curling Canada's Plus platform.

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