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04-14-14 04:02PM
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The end of the Brier as we know?

With the creation of all the new teams with imports (out of province)are we seeing the value of the Brier decrease?
How will the advertiser react?
What will the CCA do?

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04-14-14 05:23PM
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no I don't think it will be the end of the Brier as we have come to know it, but? the vanity of representing every province and territory is clearly NOT DEFINED AS FAR AS i AM CONCERNED

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04-14-14 05:50PM
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I don't mind the granting of certain exemptions (the way the rule is written now is ok, as long as it's enforced properly...), but all the players of a team representing a province should have some sort of connection with that province.

Allowing rent-a-players from out of province does diminish the greatness of the Brier... but in the quest for the all mighty Olympic medals, I think the CCA is trying whatever things they can do to boost competitive curling, unfortunately, it's at the expense of the history of the game.

This isn't unique to the CCA (see Scotland, the US now, and most other Olympic curling contenders). But it could wind up killing or crippling the two greatest spiels in curling... however, at the same time, it might raise the importance of the Traveller's (Dominion) Club Championships as being the "pure" side of curling.

Who knows... I don't like it but it's not like the CCA or my provincial association cares what I think.

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04-14-14 05:54PM
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Perhaps

But I think it will be for the better, and give the Brier even more credit. There will be better, stiffer competition and more of the better teams. It will still also crown the National Champion. This comming one will not be a true indicator of the next 3 (whole Team Canada situation). Personally it makes no difference to me if NS or NB or Nunavut are represented or not, but living in AB, we are curling spoiled.

It will be interesting once the next Olympic cycle begins though and we see all the teams and where they will be playing out of.

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04-14-14 06:20PM
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Re: Perhaps

quote:
Originally posted by derek sutton
But I think it will be for the better, and give the Brier even more credit. There will be better, stiffer competition and more of the better teams. It will still also crown the National Champion. This comming one will not be a true indicator of the next 3 (whole Team Canada situation). Personally it makes no difference to me if NS or NB or Nunavut are represented or not, but living in AB, we are curling spoiled.

It will be interesting once the next Olympic cycle begins though and we see all the teams and where they will be playing out of.



How many curling fans also watch hockey, baseball or football? Does it change how you cheer for your "home" team if it's got a bunch of Americans or Europeans in the lineup?

For 98% of curling fans watching the games, they're cheering for the sweater on the player, the home province or the team, and don't care where they're from (and for the most part don't even know).

As competitive curling participant, it's this small group that does care, but I don't see it affecting the overall product.

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04-14-14 09:34PM
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Provincial associations will care when clubs stop affiliating. Already happening in manitoba but that might be reasons of curlmanitoba being useless to clubs all around in general.

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04-14-14 10:18PM
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Re: Re: Perhaps

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


How many curling fans also watch hockey, baseball or football? Does it change how you cheer for your "home" team if it's got a bunch of Americans or Europeans in the lineup?

For 98% of curling fans watching the games, they're cheering for the sweater on the player, the home province or the team, and don't care where they're from (and for the most part don't even know).

As competitive curling participant, it's this small group that does care, but I don't see it affecting the overall product.



You're comparing curling to hockey, baseball et al. You have to be kidding?!?!?!?!? Apples and oranges other then yeah, they're both fruit! What you are going call this? The Johnny Mo Parachute rule, lol.

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04-14-14 10:42PM
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Re: Re: Re: Perhaps

The clubs are going to care when the young people stop playing.
If it isn't already happening.
How many teams did they have at the annual MCA in Manitoba last year.
People are going to find something else to do if they do not stand a chance of winning because they are always running up against stacked teams.
I am surprised there are still so many teams competing in the cash spiel circuit.
Really how many teams actually stand a chance of winning?
The rest are cannon fodder.

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04-14-14 11:07PM
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It's silly to compare the Brier and the US Championship but... I have a few comments anyway. Curling was always a niche sport in USA but the playdowns did get the interest of curlers. Many states had club, district and then state playdowns to advance to nationals. Members followed their club mates as they curled in playdowns but, if they lost, they continued to follow curlers from their district when they went to state and from their state when they went to nationals. This interest was nothing like it is for the Brier but nonetheless curlers were interested in how their state fared at the nationals. Since USA went to open playdowns, I think club curlers have lost interest in following the playdowns. Some of this is the new curlers that have been drawn to the sport, but I think a lot of it is the loss of a "home team" to follow at Nationals. Curlers used to travel to nationals to follow their state's team but no more. Nationals held in traditional curling areas draw very little attendance. Nationals held in new areas, like Philadelphia this year, draw new curlers still attracted by the novelty of their new sport. Again, we cannot compare USA curling to Canada, but I do wonder if the loss of interest in nationals curling since USA dropped state qualification may be an indication of what could happen to the Brier if curlers no longer came from the province for whom they are curling???

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04-15-14 12:24AM
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Re: Re: Re: Perhaps

quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered


You're comparing curling to hockey, baseball et al. You have to be kidding?!?!?!?!? Apples and oranges other then yeah, they're both fruit! What you are going call this? The Johnny Mo Parachute rule, lol.



John Morris was far from the first to curl in another province then he might reside. What John is actually doing is working in BC to fulfill any job requirements to play there with several fishing charters already confirmed and sold out for this summer.

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04-15-14 12:34AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Perhaps

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


John Morris was far from the first to curl in another province then he might reside. What John is actually doing is working in BC to fulfill any job requirements to play there with several fishing charters already confirmed and sold out for this summer.



Really Gerry? Perhaps you could give us the name of this charter company then. If they're sold out and so popular they no doubt would love the publicity. And while you're at it, what happened to the BC forum thread where this alleged job was hotly discussed.

Isnt it odd, Btw, that when Morris announced his little sabbatical he made no mention of his summer fishing job. You would think he'd promote it to help the company he's working for.

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04-15-14 08:39AM
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Seems like about twenty teams are changing the face of curling in an effort to get an olympic gold medal for glory and $$$$ - not necessarily in that order - to the detriment of curling in the long run.

In Canada ten teams are planning all star teams so that the odds of a briar , worlds or olympics will be 1 in 4 instead of 1 in 6

A few fringe teams -10 maybe - still compete from the other provinces as their odds of qualifying are pretty good as interest wanes aka dies at the club level.. Im guessing there are maybe 4 good junior teams in Manitoba, another ten across the country - but when these guys start going to university and get married the herd will be culled to 5 teams in 5 years.

I expect that the top five teams that keep shuffling the deck have issues .. It would appear that morris wasnt the only one that lost confidence in martin.. Ben and marc have been unhappy for a couple of years too.. It sucks to get old , you become boring, demanding and dont smell as good - and you miss a few more shots..ask Tigr , Figjam, and most quarterbacks. Koe team was retiring and announced some changes but then won a bye to the brier .. Their dilema is understandable. Thou the dissappointment of the worlds might have Carter rethinking retirement.. Thou its pretty easy to get 3 of them together in feb 2015 for the bye ... That didnt actually work the way it is supposed to.... Stoughton team must have a lot of issues .. Love to be a fly in that dressing room. Im surprised at mrs. Jones .. Cant figure him out at all.......

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04-15-14 09:53AM
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Geeze people really don't like the Johnny Mo thing. I don't get it. Cotter probably still would have won the province IMO (and possibly with his first import Gunlaugsson, amirite people!?). Further, Simmons (who WON the damn Brier) still isn't from Alberta! As for other provinces, Fry isn't from NONT, Nichols isn't from MB, and every single player on Team Gushue besides Brad isn't from the rock! Stop me if I missed anyone!

It happened. And it'll happen again. Mead's going to Ontario. Moskowy to Manitoba. Laing to AB. Players move and/or play out of province all the time. And frankly the rules should allow it given today's game. It's been years since Earle Morris represented 3 provinces at the Brier - this is nothing new! Some people physically move, some don't. Honestly I don't see the difference, it's still 4 guys on a curling team, and any 4 other guys can still go find a way to beat them. Elite level curling is beyond provincial borders at this point, and the National Championship and Provincial Associations are starting to accommodate. And given that we've missed out on gold at the World's two years in a row, maybe change just might be good people! Time to build a bridge and get over it.

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04-15-14 09:55AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Perhaps

quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered


Really Gerry? Perhaps you could give us the name of this charter company then. If they're sold out and so popular they no doubt would love the publicity. And while you're at it, what happened to the BC forum thread where this alleged job was hotly discussed.

Isnt it odd, Btw, that when Morris announced his little sabbatical he made no mention of his summer fishing job. You would think he'd promote it to help the company he's working for.



Good Time Daves' Fishing Charter
http://www.gtdfishing.com/

Here's the source:
https://twitter.com/johnnymocurler

The thread has disappeared because the slanderous commentary posted about a player. If you think you're posting anonymously, you should be careful since information can be tracked back to identify the posters of these comments.

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04-15-14 01:11PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
Geeze people really don't like the Johnny Mo thing. I don't get it. Cotter probably still would have won the province IMO (and possibly with his first import Gunlaugsson, amirite people!?). Further, Simmons (who WON the damn Brier) still isn't from Alberta! As for other provinces, Fry isn't from NONT, Nichols isn't from MB, and every single player on Team Gushue besides Brad isn't from the rock! Stop me if I missed anyone!

It happened. And it'll happen again. Mead's going to Ontario. Moskowy to Manitoba. Laing to AB. Players move and/or play out of province all the time. And frankly the rules should allow it given today's game. It's been years since Earle Morris represented 3 provinces at the Brier - this is nothing new! Some people physically move, some don't. Honestly I don't see the difference, it's still 4 guys on a curling team, and any 4 other guys can still go find a way to beat them. Elite level curling is beyond provincial borders at this point, and the National Championship and Provincial Associations are starting to accommodate. And given that we've missed out on gold at the World's two years in a row, maybe change just might be good people! Time to build a bridge and get over it.



Don't compare people who move to a new area to those who parachute in. If you're not able to tell the difference you're not too bright.

A preliminary check of Morris's employer shows no mention of him on staff. Wouldn't you promote a celebrity Olympian guide?

Also, it appears that the site itself hasn't been updated since April 2013.

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04-15-14 01:20PM
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I like the term "parachute in"

I guess that refers to those who conveniently drop in for a lengthy stay ONLY AFTER THEY SAY coming for the weekend or so to curl.....

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04-15-14 02:31PM
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Someone needs to stop this! It is bad enough that we are now opting to kick some areas of the country out of the Brier. It is ridiculous that Johnny Mo got away with what he did this year. No disrespect Gerry but whatever he does in BC this summer I would expect to be minimal at best and yeah, it may fulfill his commitment but it is a total joke. And now it appears that Laing will play in Alberta and Mead in Ontario. If those teams are allowed to compete in the playdowns, the joke just gets bigger and the Brier will no longer be the Brier. Call it what you want but please don't disrespect those that have played in it for the past many decades by continuing to call it the Brier!

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04-15-14 02:57PM
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Pat Simmons lives in Saskatchewan and plays out of Alberta. Jennifer Jones lives in Ontario and plays out of Manitoba. Brent Laing lives in Ontario and will play out of Alberta. Steve Burgess lives in New Brunswick but plays out of Nova Scotia. Brock Virtue and Chris Schille lived in Alberta and played out of Saskatchewan. And of course John Morris played out of British Columbia and lived in Alberta.

They all did what they had to do to meet local restriction to be eligible to play for their provinces.

The CCA has no interest in policing this as it's in their best interest that the best players get together to form stronger teams. Why should Steve Burgess be penalized that he lives and works in New Brunswick, but there are no teams there interested in travelling and playing a bigger schedule.

Pat Simmons is the best player in Saskatchewan and he never really had the success he was seeking there, "moves" to Alberta to play third for Koe and wins a Brier.

Jim Cotter has gone through a long list of players at 3rd since Bob Ursel retired due to injuries and hasn't found much success until Morris joined them.

It's sport, and the best teams are going to do what they need to do to get together. If you don't like it, put the work in and beat them on the ice.

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04-15-14 03:30PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
Pat Simmons lives in Saskatchewan and plays out of Alberta. Jennifer Jones lives in Ontario and plays out of Manitoba. Brent Laing lives in Ontario and will play out of Alberta. Steve Burgess lives in New Brunswick but plays out of Nova Scotia. Brock Virtue and Chris Schille lived in Alberta and played out of Saskatchewan. And of course John Morris played out of British Columbia and lived in Alberta.

They all did what they had to do to meet local restriction to be eligible to play for their provinces.

The CCA has no interest in policing this as it's in their best interest that the best players get together to form stronger teams. Why should Steve Burgess be penalized that he lives and works in New Brunswick, but there are no teams there interested in travelling and playing a bigger schedule.

Pat Simmons is the best player in Saskatchewan and he never really had the success he was seeking there, "moves" to Alberta to play third for Koe and wins a Brier.

Jim Cotter has gone through a long list of players at 3rd since Bob Ursel retired due to injuries and hasn't found much success until Morris joined them.

It's sport, and the best teams are going to do what they need to do to get together. If you don't like it, put the work in and beat them on the ice.


If they allow this, then Ali should be able to live in Sweden and continue curling with Homan.
Whats one more border in the big picture!
After all if the CCA wants stronger teams for world curling events then Homan has to be considered at least a strong number 2 in women's curling in Canada behind Jones.
(And in 4 years Jones members will be 4 years older. They will be ripe for defeat).

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04-15-14 04:21PM
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Oh, don't be daft. A provincial boundary is not the same as a national boundary. Players are making huge sacrifices in pursuit of their dreams to represent our country on the international curling stage. They should be commended and celebrated for elevating our game to its highest-ever level.

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04-15-14 04:44PM
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Umm...Erica Brown lives in Canada and played in US Nationals and Olympics. Just a matter of managing travel. Heck, Shaw satellite thinks I live in Quebec.

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04-15-14 04:50PM
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quote:
Originally posted by doubletakeout
Oh, don't be daft. A provincial boundary is not the same as a national boundary. Players are making huge sacrifices in pursuit of their dreams to represent our country on the international curling stage. They should be commended and celebrated for elevating our game to its highest-ever level.


There are no restrictions on whether Ali Kreviazuk could play for Canada at the Worlds or Olympics, even if she lived in Sweden. The problem is the current system of playdowns in Canada requires provincial "residency". I'm sure if Ali wanted to continue playing, she could still officially reside in Ottawa (parents house), while actually living in Sweden.

Would be the same as any of these other players who currently resides out of different provinces.

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04-15-14 04:51PM
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Listen, the brier was ruined when they stopped the Brier Train and started to let players fly to the event....or was it when Ken Watson started to slide out of the hack....maybe it was when players were not allowed to smoke on the ice anymore.....the brier ended when players started to practice to get better, this was not fair to the players that didn't practice.....maybe it was when the players started to pick rocks from different sheets......the brier was ruined when the three rock rule started to be used.....the brier was ruined when the four rock rule was introduced.....maybe it was the page playoff system that really ruined the brier....

I get it, change is a scarry thing for a lot of people. If the Brier doesn't change it gets left behind.

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04-15-14 05:15PM
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Can't believe so many of you are so butthurt over all this parachuting. Give it up. It ain't gonna change.

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04-15-14 05:18PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


There are no restrictions on whether Ali Kreviazuk could play for Canada at the Worlds or Olympics, even if she lived in Sweden. The problem is the current system of playdowns in Canada requires provincial "residency". I'm sure if Ali wanted to continue playing, she could still officially reside in Ottawa (parents house), while actually living in Sweden.

Would be the same as any of these other players who currently resides out of different provinces.



Ah bless you Gerry. I was just about to jump on that one too!

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