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: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
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Draw: 4 -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 10:00am MT
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04-02-14 08:09PM
misty1 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for misty1 Click here to Send misty1 a Private Message Find more posts by misty1 Add misty1 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
misty1
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Re: 2014 world mens

quote:
Originally posted by masterb
here are the facts

Fenson is 3-6 against a much weaker field than last years worlds and he has to play Norway and Switzerland yet good luck ! the good news for him is that Norway almost has first or second wrapped up

Fenson , Rojeski and Polo have gone 6 times and not won a medal at the worlds at least I don't think so. That is not good at all.

Pete intimidates other USA teams and they miss against him when it counts. McCormick could not hit any part of the 4 foot to beat him.

Those guys had their chances time to send someone new.

The Scottish team or Czech Republic teams he lost to would never win the USA Mens.I would expect better of them with their experience and this weaker field.



True but they do have the only medal for the US at the Olympics so that's something

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04-02-14 08:23PM
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rtcurl
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2013
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Japan

How does this team go from 1-6 in the OQE in December to 7-2 in the World's 3 months later?

HP staff, any thoughts?

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04-02-14 08:41PM
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rtcurl
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OOM

BTW, Fenson gathered the same OOM points (45.00) for the USA nationals as Koe did (45.00) for winning the Brier. C'mon. USA Nationals versus the Brier? Isn't even a discussion point. Fenson isn't 26th in the world. Look at the WCT web site.

The OOM system has to factor in ALL tournaments with SQM and only assign a fixed label to the those events where there are the top teams in the rankings like Slams, Worlds, etc..

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04-02-14 09:44PM
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jhcurl
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Outside of the left field wall now. If you take the US events out of the OOM points, I think that there are 2 or possibly 3 US men's teams in the top 100.

The US teams need to stop playing the other US teams or the US events need to stop awarding points when they beat each other. The NBTMLWaPF can decide who is the best US team. The US cash spiels can be used as a stepping stone for those teams that want to get better. HP teams should not be getting points from US spiels. I know that Tuck disagrees with this.

JH
The Mutts are losing, the Phigthin's are winning. This is the important thing right now.
PPS US playing Norway if anyone cares

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04-02-14 10:24PM
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Re: OOM

quote:
Originally posted by rtcurl
BTW, Fenson gathered the same OOM points (45.00) for the USA nationals as Koe did (45.00) for winning the Brier. C'mon. USA Nationals versus the Brier? Isn't even a discussion point. Fenson isn't 26th in the world. Look at the WCT web site.




Agree with your point about Brier vs US Nationals. On the WCT site, Fenson is listed as 25th in the world based on total points, and 20th in the world based on year to date.

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04-02-14 11:43PM
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dbsdbs
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USA gives Norway a game but loses 6-4 to drop into 9th place tie with 3-6 record. Is this where we say how damn proud we are of them?

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04-03-14 01:26AM
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dbsdbs, Well, the field is getting tougher every year at worlds... so, winning just a few is not easy to do. So, good for them!

Check out the end of round robin standings for the men v. the women at worlds this year v. the Sochi Olympics. I am struck by where Japan, South Korea, and China ended up. Having to fight for the limited WCF berths has made all of their top teams hungrier and better each year. They have been forced by the limited WCF berths for Asia to work harder and smarter, but each country progresses in their own very different ways with often very different coaching methods that work for them.

What is "our" way in the US? Whatever it is to succeed must play to what makes us different than the rest of the world. Forcing us into a bureaucratic top-down old Soviet-style system or a robot factory with fungible players won't work. Our free and open marketplace of methods and ideas instead will build us the best and most consistent teams.

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04-03-14 09:33AM
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Curlrock
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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After watching a fair amount of international curling over the past couple of years, I have come to the conclusion that something is wrong with USA/HP curling. That may sound obvious, but let me be more specific. Four to five countries have performed consistently better than other countries over that time. The rest of the countries have periodically had good weeks and finished in the top four or five. It looks as though some of these countries may be permanently on the rise. The US has not been one of these countries. In most competitions they are out of it by the third game (I get sick of hearing if they win the next three, and China loses.........).

What's my point? I'm convinced that the US teams are at least as good as those ten or twelve countries not in the top four or five. Why are we not having any good weeks? Our neighbors up north may say I'm an American that just thinks we should be better than we are. That's not the case at all. I'm already conceding that we are not in the top five, but we should be able to get hot at least one week. I've seen the other countries play. They can look terrible too.

I think there is more to it? Something just doesn't jive. Perhaps we will hear about it in the years to come. Perhaps there are others who have an idea. Are the current athletes completely on board with the system?

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04-03-14 09:43AM
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chapnlie
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Are there any US men's teams which seriously shoot for a world medal? Who work at it as hard as the Jacobs rink, or any other top Canadian or international teams?

I don't know the answer, but my sense is the U.S. teams primary goal is to simply win the U.S. title.

I remember reading several years ago of how Kevin Martin would throw a hundred stones per day. And the Jacobs rink obviously spends hours in the gym. Which U.S. teams show that level of commitment. In contrast, I recall the skip of our Olympic team comment that he thought physical conditioning for curling was overrated...

Until a U.S. team emerges with that level of commitment, all the HP coaching in the world isn't going to make a difference.

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04-03-14 09:50AM
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I recall saying that very thing a while back, that it seemed like the only thing a lot of U.S. teams/players cared about was winning nationals. Everything after that was merely considered icing on the cake. I really have no way to offer evidence one way or the other, but I agree that it seems like our teams, in general, just do not perform at the world level. Not that they can't, but that for whatever reason they just don't.

I sure hope I'm wrong about that, because if it's true at any level, we've got a serious problem. That's an ingrained culture issue, and no amount of HP coaching will eliminate that so easily.

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04-03-14 09:57AM
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misty1
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Its disappointing the way this team performed. They didn't do great last time and I thought they'd do better, at least here.

Contrary to what one poster on here might believe I never at any time said they were a lock for final 4 but I thought they had an outside shot to get into something, at least a tiebreaker. Certainly I thought they were good enough for 6-5 at least.

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04-03-14 10:27AM
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jhcurl
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A 10th place finish. Thought they had a chance to go 6-5 or possibly 7-4. End up at 3-8. Not good.

Time for a fresh start hopefully with some teams that want to do more than win the Nationals.

JH
see you in the Derby thread

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04-03-14 10:50AM
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DBZ
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I also thought that 7-4 was attainable & 6-5 probable. A tough week for a great group of guys. I know that they worked damned hard to be ready for this challenge. I also know that they are hurting bad. When the World's/Olympics are over for you & your goals are left unfulfilled, there is an emptiness that takes a long time to get over. Safe travels home boys, still damned proud of you!!!

__________________
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04-03-14 12:06PM
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clutch
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World Men's

I was kind of thinking 6-5, but hoping for something better - still proud of the guys too. It is kind of odd - it's not like we aren't in the dance we are there so over this period of time you would have thought that there would have been a few more times when a skip, vice, or team had just caught on fire. Not saying you can count on that of course, but you just would have thought it would have happened a bit more. Years ago when I was on the board, the familiar refrain was, team played fine but we needed a bit more out of the skip, code for hot skip. Of course, we got one last year with Brady but there were some struggles elsewhere. In 2007, Todhunter was on fire and Birr was solid. In 2006, Shawn was on fire and Pete was solid. We have to figure out a way to win even when we aren't playing our best, but it doesn't seem like our guys are hot at the right time, code for peaking at the right time.

clutch

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04-03-14 01:56PM
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mr. lucky
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Yeah, looking forward to when that Swiss model pays dividends.

How long have we been running that program Gerry? Is this the first year?

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04-03-14 03:20PM
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Nine Ender
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1
Its disappointing the way this team performed. They didn't do great last time and I thought they'd do better, at least here.

Contrary to what one poster on here might believe I never at any time said they were a lock for final 4 but I thought they had an outside shot to get into something, at least a tiebreaker. Certainly I thought they were good enough for 6-5 at least.



Seriously ? Listen, this is the second time you did the exact same thing. Strongly suggested the US would make the playoffs, based on their "experience". After each team easily missed the playoffs, competitive with no playoff team in the event, you gave us this "no lock" comment.

Here is your exact quote :

" United States - one of the most experienced teams here. If the ice doesn't get any better than that experience will help as other teams get frustrated. There is no argument to be made, this is the best team to get out of the US in the last 10 years. Pete will definitely look to improve on his 3-8 showing in 2011 and I think he can. Experience may help them get to the playoffs "

Last edited by Nine Ender on 04-03-14 at 03:26PM

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04-03-14 05:34PM
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misty1
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quote:
Originally posted by Nine Ender


Seriously ? Listen, this is the second time you did the exact same thing. Strongly suggested the US would make the playoffs, based on their "experience". After each team easily missed the playoffs, competitive with no playoff team in the event, you gave us this "no lock" comment.

Here is your exact quote :

" United States - one of the most experienced teams here. If the ice doesn't get any better than that experience will help as other teams get frustrated. There is no argument to be made, this is the best team to get out of the US in the last 10 years. Pete will definitely look to improve on his 3-8 showing in 2011 and I think he can. Experience may help them get to the playoffs "



show me where in that quote I said the US would for sure make the playoffs, go ahead. said they could get there and that they'd look to improve on their last performance.Nowhere in there did I strongly imply anything

ive also been saying they had experience and that could help but that wasn't the sole basis for why I thought they had a shot

but hey if you think that little quote proves your point good for you.

Last edited by misty1 on 04-03-14 at 05:39PM

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04-03-14 07:09PM
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tuck
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Geez, Nine Ender, let it go. Misty came down to the USA threads and said nice things about a USA team. If you want to revoke her Canadian citizenship, just exile her and get it over with.

Coach Jensen, Gerry helped the Swiss with some points stuff and some math. The Rise of the Swiss predates his input, if I'm not mistaken. I'd be guessing, but I think it started to come together for them under the guidance of Lorne Hamblin. I know for certain that Dean Gemmell has said for 3 years that it is the Swiss that got it goin' on.

Ben Tucker

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04-03-14 07:15PM
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dbsdbs,

Yeah, this is where I say that I'm damn proud of them.

This team wasn't always funded. They originally got good by playing a tough schedule on their own time and on their own dime.

Step back a little and see how much Pete is starting to give to Juniors.

Step back a little and see how Ski still supports his home club in Hibbing.

Step back a little and watch the work Joe Cool does for the House of Hearts. He helps in organizing. He helps recruit skips and players. He helps raise money. He helps scrape and pebble and nip.

Yes. They underperformed. But the are a good team filled with good guys who give back to the game. Not all of the World field can say that, but I can say that I'm proud of them.

Ben Tucker

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04-03-14 08:29PM
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mr. lucky
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Not sure what you meant Tuck, the Swiss took 3 years to turn it around or we have been using their program for 3?

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04-03-14 09:21PM
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dbsdbs
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Tuck, not disagreeing with anything you say. I agree that they are good guys and am glad they are giving back to the game. I applaud their effort to get to the world stage as often as they have. Just saying that I get tired of the all the USA-USA-USA jingoism.

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04-03-14 10:08PM
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DBZ
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Whatever anonymous dbsdbs: I'm damn proud of wearing U.S.A. On my back, damn proud of the boys & me, damn proud of the men I've been privileged to curl with & no one is ever going to stop me from cheering on US of A! I'm happy to have friends around the world that love curling, but all your comments mean to me is that you've either never been there, or you are just being disrespectful.

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04-04-14 12:34AM
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brund
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quote:
Originally posted by DBZ
Whatever anonymous dbsdbs: I'm damn proud of wearing U.S.A. On my back, damn proud of the boys & me, damn proud of the men I've been privileged to curl with & no one is ever going to stop me from cheering on US of A! I'm happy to have friends around the world that love curling, but all your comments mean to me is that you've either never been there, or you are just being disrespectful.
Dang Don you sure say some pretty stuff! lol I feel the same way about most of this game we call curling. How you doing old timer. Oh by the way this is Myles

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04-04-14 09:00AM
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Myles Brundidge? Dude, I thought you'd have died by now.

For newer curlers, Myles is a 3 time National champion. He shot second for one of our nation's best-ever teams, the Tim Summerville rink. (not the Bud Summerville rink, who was our BEST ever team).

Myles and the boys lived pretty hard. For him to still be alive probably proves that there is a god. Still, they always had a winning record at Worlds. They also made the playoffs in the Nagano Olympics before falling to Mike Harris from Canada in the semifinals (Tim was throwing some bad granite in that game...a preview to the USA always being behind on matching rocks) The only time they had a losing record in international play was at the Salt Lake City Olympics.

Tim and the boys used to be fairly intimidating on and off the ice. Some teams didn't like playing against these hard partying men who got great by playing often but always on a tight budget. I, however, liked playing against them because they would rather lose then mess with any rule or the spirit of curling.

I wasn't very good when that Summerville rink was at the top. I didn't get to play against them very often...once in the Appleton Nationals, but that is all I remember.

Dang, I'd have bet money that they'd all be dead by now.

I hear that Myles' daughter is becoming a very good player. I believe her name is Libby, but you might want to check my facts on that one.

Ben Tucker

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04-04-14 09:57AM
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Joe Polo was top-rated second at Worlds. His shooting and his sweeping make him an all-star. Brunt was number 4 rated lead. But the rest explains why USA finished 10th. Rojeski tied for 10-11 out of 12 thirds and Fenson tied for 9-10-11. Statistics are not the whole story but these are pretty telling.

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Curling Scores

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