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02-16-14 07:24PM
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JB42
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re 4 Briers

Ummmm.....since Glenn Howard has 4 World Championships I'm pretty sure that he's got four Briers as well.

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02-16-14 07:29PM
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And while Kevin Martin may only have 1 World's he also has four Briers.

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02-16-14 08:12PM
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Quick recap of the Big three

Jeff Stoughton - 12 Briers - 3 wins - 6 medals

Kevin Martin - 12 Briers - 4 wins - 7 medals

Glenn Howard - 15 Briers - 4 wins - 14 medals

And yes Ferbey and company did win Four Briers.

However for 3 of those years there was no Martin, Howard or Stoughton. Those being the boycott years. I am on the side of those who believe that those years should forever be viewed with an asterisk. After all look at the years before and after the boycott. Who featured most prominently? The answer of course is Howard, Martin and Stoughton, in that order. Glenn making fourteen playoffs and eleven finals.

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02-16-14 08:39PM
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not really sure why they juggled the line up, mark has proven to be a fantastic lead and im not all together sold that reid is a good choice for lead.

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02-16-14 09:26PM
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I don't see how that is a 'slap' on Glenn.

Curling is a team game and skips get altogether too much of the limelight and the credit. I understand why of course. The media shapes people's perceptions. And the media, especially the TV sporting news side of things have a very short time window in which to tell the story. For print the limitation is space. (When they mention curling at all) And so of course they are going to concentrate on the skip. I understand their limitations, we however do not have those limitations here at CZ.

I also can tell you for 100% sure who would be the first to agree with me on this: Kevin Martin, Glenn Howard, Russ Howard, Jeff Stoughton and Wayne Middaugh, for starters.

Middaugh is today as great a shooter as he was in 1993 when he won his first World Championship. Then the best second in the world by a mile. Later he won the Brier in 1998 as a skip. A time when no one was considered more dangerous as a shooter. More recently he shot 98% playing third for Glenn in the Brier Final defeating Koe in 2012. He was of course the same player in the middle of those bookends.

And yet from 2006 through 2011 he couldn't get to the Brier even once. Why? The team wasn't good enough.

Martin changed his former Brier winning team for the same reason and created the most dominant Brier team of all time for a two year span.

Stoughton also moved on from his former World Championship team because he needed to improve to compete, and by doing so allowed himself to win another Brier and World's in 2011.

For life reasons Russ split from Glenn in 2000 and moved to the Maritimes where the pickings are slimmer. He hasn't won a Brier since.

It's a team game. So I see no slap.

Last edited by JB42 on 02-16-14 at 09:38PM

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02-16-14 11:48PM
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Shocking that ML only thought there were two guys with 4 Brier wins.

I am a big Martin fan, and have never liked Ferbey or his team. That being said, there is no way you put an asterisk by his Brier wins. It's not his fault the other guys sat out. Heck, even Russ Howard played in both the WCT and the Brier. Every year there is a reason why teams do, or do not play, or do, or do not qualify for the Brier. You can't control if they enter, and if you're in another province, you can't control if they qualify. You can only play the team that is scheduled to play against you.

This year Martin, Howard and Jacobs aren't there. If Stoughton, Gushue, or anyone else wins, there is no asterisk. The only asterisk that should be applied is if BC wins, because there is no way Morris should be allowed to play out of there.

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02-17-14 12:30AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Wonderful if Jeff Stoughton could pull off a 4th Brier victory in BC. Who woulda thunk it?

With most folks expectin' Jeff to mail it in after the utter despair of a less than stellar performance at the Winnipeg Olympic trials the man stands on the precipice of Canadian curling greatness.

Richardsons and Ferbey only guys with 4 or more brier Ws.

The beauty of a Stoughton win would be he'd be Team Canada next year and could keep his team together for Grand Slams, special spiels and a few personal appearances. Could be good for sponsorships too as Jeff could label it the "Stoughton: The Final Tour"

First things first. KOE. MORRIS. GUSHUE. 3 other monsters who want to blockade any thoughts of Stoughton grabbing a 4th Brier title. If Jeff wants to win this one - he'll have to earn it!



So Mike McEwen will be cheering for Stoughton. This way there's almost no way he can't lose provincials again :D *or insert the words c h o k e a g a i n *

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02-17-14 10:51AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Mikey Whipwreck would be over-joyed if Stoughty took the duke at the Brier this year. Stoughton has 3 major impediments named Gushue, Morris/Cotter, Koe BUT if Jeff plays at the same level he delivered during those TV events and then at the Winnipeg Tankard he'll be a very tough out in BC.

If he wins he'll look at his team eye to eye and say "Guys, we've got another Brier trip pre-booked as Team Canada, why not go another year? Any objections?" I suspect there will be none!

McEwen's main obstacle without Jeff in the Manitoba field would be in order of importance:

1. Himself
2. Irwin, if he can build a super-team in Westman
3. Rob Fowler - if he can somehow get mean again.



You're insufferable

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02-17-14 12:40PM
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re Asterisk

It is of course not Ferbey's fault that the other players sat out. It is however his team's fault/choice that they did not.

Team Martin, Team G Howard, Team Middaugh, and Team Stoughton led the boycott. All were at the top of the pile and therefore giving up the most.

I remember that time and it was pretty acrimonious between those players who did and those who didn't support the boycott. Everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion on the boycott. Mine is that the CCA was being wholly unreasonable and the players were being seriously shortchanged. Given the deal they gained after the boycott history would seem to agree. Be that as it may.

Russ was in a special situation. Because of his job he moved to the Maritimes and so had to split with Glenn, and he also never played the Tour full time again. Job and being in the Maritimes made that non-viable.

The subject is also largely moot as it is an issue only for those who were around at the time. And as time passes will become less so. So as far as 'official' history is concerned the Team Ferbey record will stand.

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02-17-14 09:06PM
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is the team rumour Kevin Koe, Marc Kennedy, Brent Laing and Ben Hebert true?

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02-17-14 09:12PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
is the team rumour Kevin Koe, Marc Kennedy, Brent Laing and Ben Hebert true?


not sure, juicy if it is. But im confused though because how in the hell is brent laing a part of this team?

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02-17-14 09:38PM
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There were only 2, not 3, boycott years.

The first year team Ferbey won, they beat Burtnyk in the final.

The second year, a boycott year, they beat John Morris, Joe Frans, Craig Savill, Brent Laing in the final.

The third year, a boycott year, they beat Mark Dacey, Bruce Lohnes, Rob Harris, Andrew Gibson.

The next year, a non-boycott year, they lost to Dacey.

The fifth year, a non-boycott year, when they won their forth Brier, they beat Shawn Adams' Nova Scotia's rink.

So 3 out of 5 years they were in the Brier final, they won Alberta with the full compliment of teams.

So add an asterisk if you must, but that team took curling to another level, and are directly responsible for the level teams Martin and Howard took it to right after.

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02-17-14 10:44PM
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I could not for the life of me recall if it was two or three years. So I searched high and low throughout the 'internets' as Steven Colbert calls them and still could not pin it down, Yet another example of the establishment bias of the media I suppose that the player rebellion was so under reported. In the end I based my estimation by who came through in Manitoba, Ontario and Alberta in 2004.

I will however take your word for it and apologize for the error.

If it's not too much trouble, and again it's not that I doubt you, but I am interested. Do you know where on the internet this is substantiated.

Whether it was two or three years does not alter my perception. Where they that much better than the rest? The rest of their record does not indicate so. Were they a great team? Of course they were. Is it a shame that the boycott forever leaves a question mark over their legacy? Of course it is. Enuff said.

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02-17-14 11:04PM
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re WCT

There is no doubt that the casual fan will always care more about the Brier and the Olympics. That said the fields are so much better at the Grand Slams - Canadian Trials excepted - I have no doubt that they are a better litmus test of who is the best of the best.

In the Grand Slam era, which starts in 2000-2001 Martin has 14 wins and Howard has 13. Stoughton has 4.

Yes of course Stoughton is one of the best curlers of all time. His record to date however is considerably behind Howard and Martin.

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02-18-14 07:30AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
is the team rumour Kevin Koe, Marc Kennedy, Brent Laing and Ben Hebert true?


Mike Harris mentioned on TV he saw a tweet that Kennedy sent out regarding the 2009 world championship. Mike Harris then on TV said he is hearing rampant rumours involving Alberta curlers and he jokingly asked Marc Kennedy if he could confirm them on twitter

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02-18-14 10:49AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
is the team rumour Kevin Koe, Marc Kennedy, Brent Laing and Ben Hebert true?


I heard about a year ago the Hebert was all but a lock to move over to play with Koe. I didn't hear the same about Marc, but it would not surprise me if that was the case. I have no clue about Laing, but that doesn't make much sense since it seems much more likely that he'll move to Manitoba to be with Jen.

IF Hebert and Kennedy go to Koe I could see them keeping Carter at 2nd and moving Kennedy to 3rd. Or they could keep Pat. Maybe Blake McDonald is ready to come back full time? Or Johnny Mo could be back in the picture for the start of a new Olympic cycle. Actually that last one probably makes a lot of sense since Koe and Morris have allready played together before. At the time they couldn't get past the big dogs, but I hardly see that as a problem any more.

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02-18-14 11:31AM
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re Kennedy

I would think that there is little argument that Marc Kennedy is the best second in the game, and the best second since Middaugh played the position. I would also say that like Middaugh Kennedy is considered by many the most dangerous shooter in the game period.

Also like Middaugh there is no shot that he can't play, and so no position that he can't play. Should he choose to move up there is no skip in the country that wouldn't love to have him.

There is just about no chance that he will end up skipping anywhere in the near future. But man would I love to see what he could do with the last brick.

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02-18-14 12:08PM
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john morris and Brier rules

quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
The only asterisk that should be applied is if BC wins, because there is no way Morris should be allowed to play out of there.

Yes.. why is that just because he took a year off work from his Home province AB

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02-18-14 12:50PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
is the team rumour Kevin Koe, Marc Kennedy, Brent Laing and Ben Hebert true?



I recently heard from a very reliable source that the Koe, Kennedy, Herbert team is a lock and not a rumour. They thought Kennedy was moving to third and Rycroft at second but during the AB final the announcer commented that Rycroft had announced he was taking a year off.

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02-18-14 01:08PM
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If true that would be an enormous blow to Kevin Martin. There is no better front end in curling. And as I said earlier any skip in curling would love to have Kennedy at Vice.

Again, if true, if the old Bear were to reinvent himself after such a blow it would be perhaps the most remarkable achievement in a very remarkable career.

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02-18-14 02:25PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Camdon



I recently heard from a very reliable source that the Koe, Kennedy, Herbert team is a lock and not a rumour. They thought Kennedy was moving to third and Rycroft at second but during the AB final the announcer commented that Rycroft had announced he was taking a year off.



I certainly can't disspell any rumour but what happens with this "new" Koe team if his existing team wins the Brier and gets an auto berth back to the 2015 Brier?

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02-18-14 02:53PM
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What happens if Koe.....

Wow, terrible case of premature e-speculation there dude......lol.....

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02-18-14 04:00PM
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Re: What happens if Koe.....

quote:
Originally posted by JB42
Wow, terrible case of premature e-speculation there dude......lol.....


Hmmm, didn't really think it was speculation, just an honest question. Now, had I said that Koe would dump Simmons and Rycroft and Thiessen even if he wins the Brier, that would be speculating. Asking a "what if" question isn't speculating and it isn't even a prediction, just a what if.

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02-18-14 04:14PM
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Apologies

Sorry, it was just a bit of humour........



And a lot of 'what if'......lol........

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02-18-14 06:44PM
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I doubt this is true and I have heard that Kennedy & Hebert are getting back with Ex Teammate Johnny Mo.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Laing and Savill jump over to play front end for Mike Mcewen. Brent likely moving to Winnipeg to be with Jen anyways, and Savill will follow suit. MIke and Brent have been living together I see on Mike blogs on CCA website so things could be in the works as we speak.

Which then leaves Glen without a front end, but I'm sure his son will step in as thats a natural fit.

Gonna be a big year for changes with a new 4 year cycle ahead of us, teams will want to form new teams now to build towards 2018 games.
I still think retirement for Martin, Stoughton, Mead, Middaugh isn't out of the question.

Martin doing commentary for NBC during the olympics has likely opened some doors for him as well.

Gonna be interesting

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