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03-07-14 01:43PM
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Ok, I think it was interesting reading all the post.
What about this to please everyone.
Each association should give curlers the choice of paying due to their association only. If they want to compete at a National level an additional fee should be levied for that purpose only.

Provincial association keeps their money and growth curling in their province and the CCA get money from people who wants to compete and not go after each province to fund them.

Elite curlers could qualify for "Own the podium" administered by the CCA and each association and the CCA gets their own sponsors to run their business.

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03-08-14 02:29PM
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Spoke yesterday with a friend who has a background in sports associations, curls recreationally and has been following the BC with a professional, detached eye. His comments were interesting, to say the least.

While refraining from an opinion on team Morris due to lack of information, he stated that Curl BC's handling of the situation has been so poor that it borders on negligence.

Given the sensitive nature, and its potential, detrimental impact, of the issue, Scott Braley, his staff and the entire executive had a responsibility to their provincial membership to fully disclose the contents of the eligibility exemption form and the employer letter in order to defuse the situation.

He brought up, interestingly, Lance Armstrong. Although he cheated and has been punished, it is well known that he was aided and abetted by his team, teammates and that most of his sponsors and the US cycling governing body were aware, for a long time, of what was transpiring.

Ultimately, it took the actions of one person to blow the whistle, name names and produce evidence before the ball started rolling. And in the end it was only the athletes who took the fall, not those higher up.

Right now, he said, Curl BC is able to trade on Cotters likeability and Morris's charisma as a smokescreen while portraying the few who speak out as; haters, disgruntled competitors and so on. Actions eerily similar to the damage control tactics Armstrong used against his accusers.

If, he said, there is cheating going on here. It will take someone from within Curl BC to stand up, speak out and produce the smoking gun. But, he told me, based on his study of the organization he sees no one with the courage to do so.

So that, I think, leaves us in a situation where our province is now basically for sale to any individuals who wish to parachute in for an easier route to national championships.

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03-10-14 02:11PM
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The Brier is not about finding the best team in Canada. It is about each province bringing their best for the right to represent Canada. Subtle but important difference. They could change it to be about the best team, and then it would more closely resemble a tour event and that would be very very bad for curling. Part of what drives the Brier is provincial pride. Look at SK for example, having little history of elite success at the Brier, it continues to draw very well for attendance when held there. But I guarantee you, without a SK team in attendance, it wouldnt' draw nearly the same. Need more evidence? Look at the tour itself. Many of the slams have had much better lineups than the Brier, but never draw in TV and attendance to the Brier. Even the Roar of the Rings, it can't draw like the Brier. Why? Provincial Pride. The Brier needs to continue that road.

So with that, CCA needs to focus on getting back to the roots, make the rules and the spirit of the rules focus on residing in the province you curl in. If you want to curl in BC/AB/NFLD/ETC then move there and curl there. Set up the residency requirements to say it is your primary residence and where you are attending as your primary employment/education. Also ensure they curl in a provincial league, perhaps even with a minimum games curled. Fact is they get provincial funding when they qualify, so they should be giving back at the provincial level. And don't just make them fill the piece of paper, make them walk the walk. If they continue to turn a blind eye to people kinda residing, then it just gets worse and worse. Johnny Mo isn't the first offender, but is definitely the most blatant. But even Pat Simmons, sure he puts in a few hours and may even rent something to stay in in AB, but ask him where his family lives and where the kids go to school and it becomes very apparent he isnt in AB. All the AB stuff is all smokescreen to cover the basic requirements. But it isn't in the spirit of the rules and the brier for sure.

Saddly, I don't have a lot of faith in the CCA to make this right. I feel like they continue to make very shortsited decisions on things like this. The bronze medal game that very few like, the relegation round which I've yet to hear much support of, and lax residency requirements show they seem to be more interested in the dollar, and make deicsions on what they can bring in today vs what is good for tomorrow.

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03-10-14 02:24PM
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Maybe the CCA should allow a team to have one out of province player if they want. However they would be assessed a fee in addition to their playdown entry fee for carrying this player.

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03-10-14 02:24PM
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I agree with all your comments.
The CCA had to power in their charter to stop this but closed a blind eye to it, they get some of their funding from provincial association.
Mr. Mike Fournier wrote a good blog called "Why relegation in Curling Sucks"
inthehousecurling.blogspot.ca

Let the Brier be what it is and if the CCA wants to create their own WCT event find sponsors to support it.

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03-10-14 03:06PM
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I think that the relegation issue is tied in some ways to the residency rules issue. If residency is badly defined and/or badly enforced, then the Brier is not a national championship based on the provinces and territories, but rather a "national championship" based on the best teams. This is something like a Grand Slam event that only Canadians can play in. The problem is that at the moment, some teams (either by design or by accident) are playing by the intent of the residency rules, while others are barely playing by the letter of the law, if that. If the Brier (or really, the CCA) were intellectually honest, there would either be: rigid, uniform residency rules and no relegation (every province and territory sends one team, period, who play the whole event); or, there'd be a point system of some kind to get in but each team would have to consist of 4 Canadians from anywhere in the country, and the winner would be Canadian champ. Right now the system is broken because it's neither fish nor fowl.

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03-10-14 03:52PM
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It has been a long time since the CCA has been interested in provincialism. Years ago in a conscious effort to corral attendee focus (ie., its cash grab) to the Brier Patch, the CCA engineered the end of provincial parties -- Maritime, North-South, Rocky Mountain High, etc -- and in their wisdom only marketed the Brier within a short distance of the host site as well as focused their messaging on player/skip names not provinces. Whose bum was in the seat was not in their strategic planning. As provincial flags started to disappear in the stands and in the Patch, the big thinkers barely gave a moment's notice. They concentrated on how many beers were sold and how many eyeballs were watching on TV.

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03-10-14 04:42PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ishootsports.ca
It has been a long time since the CCA has been interested in provincialism. Years ago in a conscious effort to corral attendee focus (ie., its cash grab) to the Brier Patch, the CCA engineered the end of provincial parties -- Maritime, North-South, Rocky Mountain High, etc -- and in their wisdom only marketed the Brier within a short distance of the host site as well as focused their messaging on player/skip names not provinces. Whose bum was in the seat was not in their strategic planning. As provincial flags started to disappear in the stands and in the Patch, the big thinkers barely gave a moment's notice. They concentrated on how many beers were sold and how many eyeballs were watching on TV.


This shouldn't be a difficult thing to fix if they focus on the right things. Build on the provincial pride at the Brier. Showcase what is special about each province and community with focussed events at the patch. Use it as an opportunity to celebrate our heritage and our differences. Showcase the history by having displays and meet/greets with former provincial champions, etc. Fans will eat that up, and it will just build on what is happening on the ice. Heck even TSN gets that, with its little Vic moments around town hilighting the host city.

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03-10-14 05:16PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered

If you want to curl in BC/AB/NFLD/ETC then move there and curl there. Set up the residency requirements to say it is your primary residence and where you are attending as your primary employment/education. Also ensure they curl in a provincial league, perhaps even with a minimum games curled. Fact is they get provincial funding when they qualify, so they should be giving back at the provincial level.



This isn't as simple as it looks.

I'll start with the second point... what do you mean by curling in a "provincial league"? Curl in a weekly curling club league? Play in a set number of cash spiels in a province?

Most elite teams don't play in their host clubs (not all, and yes, you can all list exceptions to that rule). Many elite players don't play in club leagues at all, just cash spiels and practices. If you're going to impose a requirement that a player/team has to play "x" amount of games in a club in a province that they wish to represent, make it clear what you mean.

But I think this idea isn't a good one. But if you want to make it work, then ask a player to play in "x" number of games (bonspiel/superleague/club league) in any member club in the province you wish to represent. Good luck tracking it though.

As far as residency as being the end all be all... that does get complicated. There are already exceptions about... living within 50 km of a provincial border and playing at a member club across said border, going to school in one province, yet being a resident of another (schooling does not change your province of residency), and others. I could have received an exemption for Ontario this season, based on the current rules, as my job was based in Ontario (and I commuted there regularly, and was a member of a couple of clubs in Ontario), but my residency is still in BC.

It's never a black and white situation, and it never can be. But as long as whatever rules are in place, clearly defined, and enforced fairly, then so be it.

There will always be whiners and bellyachers no matter what rules are in place. But make it fair for the curlers who do have some unusual circumstances, or who do make an effort to spend time in the province that they wish to play for, and then make the rules clear, and I'm fine with it.

For the record, I'm not all the upset about the Johnny Mo thing. He followed the CCA policy as it was laid out last summer (and yes, there is a policy on this... I have a copy of it, and you can get one from your provincial association if you wish), and he did nothing wrong. If the curlers out there think something needs to change with the policy, then let your association know about it.

But as they say... in any given situation, it's the complainers that skew an issue every time (squeaky wheel getting the grease and all that). We all have our anecdotes, stories and "proof" on what curlers think why this is a good/bad thing. But I'm guessing the true feelings of curlers is much more complicated than the way we paint it here.

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03-10-14 05:22PM
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Maybe the CCA should allow a team to have one out of province player if they want. However they would be assessed a fee in addition to their playdown entry fee for carrying this player.


This is an incredible idea. A penalty fee for an out of province player.

Make it 5-10 grand/season. I think that would bring parachuting to an instant, grinding halt!

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03-11-14 11:42AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest
Maybe the CCA should allow a team to have one out of province player if they want. However they would be assessed a fee in addition to their playdown entry fee for carrying this player.


or maybe people can just follow the rules.

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03-11-14 06:15PM
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residency is more than just putting in a....

"change of address" to the post office, you actually have to live in the province is my opinion.... other wise it becomes nothing more than 'player swapping" much like a deck of baseball cards or something?

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03-25-14 10:39AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
The Brier is not about finding the best team in Canada. It is about each province bringing their best for the right to represent Canada. Subtle but important difference. They could change it to be about the best team, and then it would more closely resemble a tour event and that would be very very bad for curling. Part of what drives the Brier is provincial pride. Look at SK for example, having little history of elite success at the Brier, it continues to draw very well for attendance when held there. But I guarantee you, without a SK team in attendance, it wouldnt' draw nearly the same. Need more evidence? Look at the tour itself. Many of the slams have had much better lineups than the Brier, but never draw in TV and attendance to the Brier. Even the Roar of the Rings, it can't draw like the Brier. Why? Provincial Pride. The Brier needs to continue that road.

So with that, CCA needs to focus on getting back to the roots, make the rules and the spirit of the rules focus on residing in the province you curl in. If you want to curl in BC/AB/NFLD/ETC then move there and curl there. Set up the residency requirements to say it is your primary residence and where you are attending as your primary employment/education. Also ensure they curl in a provincial league, perhaps even with a minimum games curled. Fact is they get provincial funding when they qualify, so they should be giving back at the provincial level. And don't just make them fill the piece of paper, make them walk the walk. If they continue to turn a blind eye to people kinda residing, then it just gets worse and worse. Johnny Mo isn't the first offender, but is definitely the most blatant. But even Pat Simmons, sure he puts in a few hours and may even rent something to stay in in AB, but ask him where his family lives and where the kids go to school and it becomes very apparent he isnt in AB. All the AB stuff is all smokescreen to cover the basic requirements. But it isn't in the spirit of the rules and the brier for sure.

Saddly, I don't have a lot of faith in the CCA to make this right. I feel like they continue to make very shortsited decisions on things like this. The bronze medal game that very few like, the relegation round which I've yet to hear much support of, and lax residency requirements show they seem to be more interested in the dollar, and make deicsions on what they can bring in today vs what is good for tomorrow.



Does anyone know the CCA policy (if there is indeed one) that relates to a player with dual citizenship? Does it seem right that a curler can enter a provincial playdown leading to a national event, get eliminated and then go through the same process in another country where they also hold citizenship?

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03-25-14 10:47AM
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hockey canada

Should be the same as hockey canada, once you pick one country, you are ineleligble to compete for any other, eg Brett Hull chose USA and could never again compete for Canada.

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03-25-14 12:16PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered


Does anyone know the CCA policy (if there is indeed one) that relates to a player with dual citizenship? Does it seem right that a curler can enter a provincial playdown leading to a national event, get eliminated and then go through the same process in another country where they also hold citizenship?



There is no rule in place for players with dual-citizenship to have to choose which country to play for until they represent a country at International level.

Once they have played at the International level, they're not eligible to play for another country for 2 years under a World Curling Federation rule.

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04-08-14 12:30AM
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A Canadian citizen who is resident in the USA seems to not be eligible to curl in either country. Not in the USA because he/she is not a citizen and not in Canada because of non-residency. A curler without a competitive home!

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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
A Canadian citizen who is resident in the USA seems to not be eligible to curl in either country. Not in the USA because he/she is not a citizen and not in Canada because of non-residency. A curler without a competitive home!


Yup. Canada has a residency requirement (but not necessarily a citizenship requirement, except for Olympics), the US has a citizenship requirement (but from what I've read, not necessarily a residency requirement) for all events which would lead to a world event.

In both countries you would need to meet the WCF requirements as well (a minimum of 2 years between representing different countries, and/or being a resident for 2 years or a citizen of the country you wish to represent). And the IOC has a citizenship requirement as well.

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Curling Scores

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Sand/Crai Final
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Gion/Desj (7)
Wasy/Koni Final
Jone/Lain (EE)
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