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M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Mon, Mar 18 -- 7:00pm AT
Gagn/Mori Final
Rees/Ches (EE)
Sand/Crai Final
Gamb/Kalt (8)
Arms/Grif Final
Pete/Gall (7) Watch Live Curling!
Zhen/Piet Final
Gion/Desj (7)
Wasy/Koni Final
Jone/Lain (EE)
Wise/Smit 12  Final
Weag/Eppi (6)
Lott/Lott 12  Final
Bouc/Char (7)
Krev/Math Final
Whit/Whit (6)
M: Aberdeen International Curling Championship
Aberdeen, SCO
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 2:45pm GMT
Mouat Final
Shuster (7)
W: Biktrix Saskatchewan Senior Women's Curling Championship
Martensville, SK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 3:00pm MT
Foster Final
Streifel (8) Watch Live Curling!
W: CCAA / Curling Canada College Championships
Sudbury, ON
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sat, Mar 16 -- 2:30pm AT
Southern Alberta IoT Final
Concordia U (10)
UofA - Augustana Final
Humber College (10)
D: WCT Slovakia Mixed Doubles Cup II
Bratislava, SVK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 12:00pm CET
Han/Zou Final
Paul/Paul (7)
Cihl/Mace Final
Yang/Tian 10  (6)
: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 4 -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 10:00am MT
Delorey Final
Koe (5)
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04-02-14 01:28PM
sbelvitch is offline Click Here to See the Profile for sbelvitch Click here to Send sbelvitch a Private Message Find more posts by sbelvitch Add sbelvitch to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
sbelvitch
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Apr 2014
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Curling in the good ol' US of A.

That was a good win i guess. Hope they finish strong. Curling in the U.S. is at a great time. This next year to 4 years will spell so much for the game here and I am glad to be able to witness the change. I hope things shake out like we all want and we get some teams (younger I presume) that will be able to step up and get us into the thick of things on a world level consistently. The USCA is in for a challenge on a few different levels and I hope they are up for it! The new gal they hired to raise funds...any news on that front? I hope she raises piles and piles of cash. Good luck and good curling!

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04-03-14 09:14PM
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spiroth
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2012
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It is funny that so many posts focus on the negatives of USA curling. From the perspective of my club, the last two months have been spectacularly successful. Right now, we have more brand-new curlers in beginner leagues than we have regular members in the club.

There are twice as many clubs in our region than there were when I first began participating in regional governance less than 10 years ago. The USCA Member Services program is fantastic and getting better and better all of the time.

All of the focus on competitive curling is completely misplaced and distorts the real goals of USA curling. We should endeavor to have 100,000 curlers by 2020 and to double the number of dedicated curling sheets in the U.S. by the same year.

These goals are completely achievable and do not depend on whether Pete Fenson or Alison Pottinger have a good week at the World Championships. Furthermore, they nearly guarantee that the the U.S. will produce elite curlers in the long term. The problem is that there is much too much focus on the short term, and far too little focus on the long term.

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04-03-14 09:16PM
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dbsdbs
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Registered: Feb 2013
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As long as we are beholden to the USOC, the focus will inevitably remain on the short-term. Got to win gold. USA...USA...USA...[ad nauseum]

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04-03-14 09:56PM
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Grux
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2007
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Posts: 43

quote:
Originally posted by spiroth
It is funny that so many posts focus on the negatives of USA curling. From the perspective of my club, the last two months have been spectacularly successful. Right now, we have more brand-new curlers in beginner leagues than we have regular members in the club.

There are twice as many clubs in our region than there were when I first began participating in regional governance less than 10 years ago. The USCA Member Services program is fantastic and getting better and better all of the time.

All of the focus on competitive curling is completely misplaced and distorts the real goals of USA curling. We should endeavor to have 100,000 curlers by 2020 and to double the number of dedicated curling sheets in the U.S. by the same year.

These goals are completely achievable and do not depend on whether Pete Fenson or Alison Pottinger have a good week at the World Championships. Furthermore, they nearly guarantee that the the U.S. will produce elite curlers in the long term. The problem is that there is much too much focus on the short term, and far too little focus on the long term.



And what was the reason for that growth in the last 10 years? Curling on TV during the Olympics. Clubs only show growth every 4 years. Take away US in the Olympics, then you are losing NBC showing the games. No TV = No new curlers. Competitive curling has a direct impact on the growth of the game in the US. How much does curling grow during the 3 off Olympic years?

People wouldn't know what curling is if it wasn't for the US playing in the Olympics and getting all the media and TV coverage.

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04-03-14 10:27PM
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spiroth
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2012
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Sure, qualifying for the Olympics is important, just to get on TV. Winning medals, on the other hand, is nearly inconsequential for long-term growth.

It is a shame that non-curling countries can buy Olympic success by investing in one or two elite teams, but this is NOT the model for the U.S., and focusing on 2018 is totally short sighted.

I guarantee you if there were 100,000 curlers in the U.S., we would always qualify for world events and would eventually rival Canada for world dominance. And, there would be thriving clubs in the U.S. - which from my perspective is infinitely more important than Olympic medals.

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04-03-14 10:43PM
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Gerry
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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
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quote:
Originally posted by spiroth
Sure, qualifying for the Olympics is important, just to get on TV. Winning medals, on the other hand, is nearly inconsequential for long-term growth.

It is a shame that non-curling countries can buy Olympic success by investing in one or two elite teams, but this is NOT the model for the U.S., and focusing on 2018 is totally short sighted.

I guarantee you if there were 100,000 curlers in the U.S., we would always qualify for world events and would eventually rival Canada for world dominance. And, there would be thriving clubs in the U.S. - which from my perspective is infinitely more important than Olympic medals.



You state the importance of Olympic participation, but that is no longer guaranteed. If the USCA does not invest being competitive in the short term, there will be no Team USA in the Olympics and the coverage will be limited and less effective.

I know as curlers we'll watch any two countries play, but how many of us watch other sports that our country-mates aren't participating in during the Olympics?

Why do we need either/or? Can't we invest in the High Performance side and continue the great work of the Member Services side?

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04-03-14 11:08PM
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Grux
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 43

quote:
Originally posted by spiroth
Sure, qualifying for the Olympics is important, just to get on TV. Winning medals, on the other hand, is nearly inconsequential for long-term growth.

It is a shame that non-curling countries can buy Olympic success by investing in one or two elite teams, but this is NOT the model for the U.S., and focusing on 2018 is totally short sighted.

I guarantee you if there were 100,000 curlers in the U.S., we would always qualify for world events and would eventually rival Canada for world dominance. And, there would be thriving clubs in the U.S. - which from my perspective is infinitely more important than Olympic medals.



Agreed! Winning medals is inconsequential to long term growth. Participation on the world stage in international events is essential to any growth. No one will cover these events if the USA isn't participating in them.

I would bet that the US would quality for World events if we had 100,000 curlers. But you will never get to that number if the TV exposure and media goes away due to lack of interest from the causal US Olympic curling fan. They don't see it, they have no reason to try it.

Forget medals for now. We have to work to keep up will the growth of all the other countries that are seeing growth because of the results and coverage at world events.

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04-04-14 07:46AM
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GuardingTheHack
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Apr 2014
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quote:
Originally posted by swinger5


Agreed! Winning medals is inconsequential to long term growth. Participation on the world stage in international events is essential to any growth. No one will cover these events if the USA isn't participating in them.

I would bet that the US would quality for World events if we had 100,000 curlers. But you will never get to that number if the TV exposure and media goes away due to lack of interest from the causal US Olympic curling fan. They don't see it, they have no reason to try it.

Forget medals for now. We have to work to keep up will the growth of all the other countries that are seeing growth because of the results and coverage at world events.



If you think winning a medal is inconsequential, you're kidding yourself. Sure, curling clubs do good numbers when the US just shows up, but Americans love winners. Imagine the numbers and the exposure if an American curling team won gold? We're probably not dominating NBCSN, but for weeks after the games, those athletes will be television and print telling their stories. People are more inspired by winning.

I'm tired of everyone saying a poor US team is a selling point, getting people in because they think they can do better. Maybe that's the problem, people are playing saying "heck, I can finish last too," instead of saying "I want to win a medal, too."

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04-04-14 12:05PM
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spiroth
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2012
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I don't care about medals. I care about club members.

I agree that it would be a bonus if the USA was on the podium. I agree that it would be a disaster if BOTH the men's and women's teams failed to qualify in 2018. I think that it is highly unlikely that either of these things will occur.

More importantly, there is absolutely nothing that I can do about it. And, I am unconvinced that the HP program will make any difference anyway. Short of paying 8 teams to live and train full time in Blaine, no amount of tinkering with qualification points or who gets funded turns the US into a gold medal contender in only 4 years.

On the other hand, we can do things to promote curling in the US right now. Like I said in my first post, the last two months have been spectacularly successful for my club. The Olympics were the catalyst, but there were also months of preparation and hard work to capitalize on the Olympic bump.

As for the comment about new curlers imagining themselves in the Olympics because John Shuster's team doesn't look invincible: this is a joke. 95% of the people who show up at a Learn-to-Curl know full well that they are never going to the Olympics, and another 4.99% learn this during their first game in a competitive league. I would love it if a future Olympian got his or her first curling lesson from me, but this is just a fantasy. I prefer to focus on things that I can actually influence - like recruiting new club members.

I would like to see 99% of the USCA's energy and talent be devoted toward growing the sport instead of hand-wringing about medals. I would also like to see more recognition of the very real successes that we are achieving at the grassroots.

I don't care about medals. I care about club members.

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04-04-14 12:35PM
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JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by spiroth

It is a shame that non-curling countries can buy Olympic success by investing in one or two elite teams, but this is NOT the model for the U.S., and focusing on 2018 is totally short sighted.



This is actually a key point. The countries that have poured a ton of money into their Olympic curling programs have done it without bothering to build up the game at the grass roots level.

China and Korea for example have almost no "club" curlers... it's all about the Olympics and developing a handful of paid athletes to compete for gold.

European countries have fallen into the same trap, and it's has hurt them when it comes to club curling and growing the sport at the grass roots level. Even Scotland has seen a decline in curling since the British Olympic Association turned their curling program into a professional system.

The risk you take when you become "professional" is that you take curling and turn it into a fringe sport like the majority of Olympic sports where people aren't interested in participating, nor are they encourage to.

So you have a choice... use events like the Olympics to just win medals for national pride, or use it to develop interest and participation in the sport as a whole.

Option #1 is probably cheaper when you think about it, and faster. You find 10-20 talented athletes and pay them as full time curlers, and allow them practice and win medals. It's a model the Chinese have used well, and other countries are following it. But it does zip for growing the sport.

If you go with option #2... it will take longer to develop competitive Olympic curlers, but you can make the sport much more successful and healthy in the long run for anyone who wishes to participate. You will get your elite level curlers when you have a larger pool of players to choose them from... but it takes time to build up that pool. You can still fund the elite curlers (just not to quite the same extent), but the money needs to be spread out to all levels of curling.

You probably have seen the debate in Canada about this as well. There is a lot of talk about how we fund curling here, and whether it's more important to win medals, or to keep the game healthy at all levels. There isn't a right answer, it's just about determining what your national association's goals for the sport should be.

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04-04-14 12:44PM
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dbsdbs
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Registered: Feb 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by JustAnotherHack


If you go with option #2... it will take longer to develop competitive Olympic curlers, but you can make the sport much more successful and healthy in the long run for anyone who wishes to participate. You will get your elite level curlers when you have a larger pool of players to choose them from... but it takes time to build up that pool. You can still fund the elite curlers (just not to quite the same extent), but the money needs to be spread out to all levels of curling.




Therein lies the rub. While most USA curlers would likely opt for long-term growth and the more competitive curling that would ultimately ensue, the USOC cares only about medals NOW. Since most of the money for the elite curlers is coming from the USOC and not from USCA dues [as we are assured], then money talks and we focus on winning now, even though that is short-sighted and immeasurably more difficult.

Last edited by dbsdbs on 04-05-14 at 12:19AM

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Curling Scores

M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Mon, Mar 18 -- 7:00pm AT
Gagn/Mori Final
Rees/Ches (EE)
Sand/Crai Final
Gamb/Kalt (8)
Arms/Grif Final
Pete/Gall (7) Watch Live Curling!
Zhen/Piet Final
Gion/Desj (7)
Wasy/Koni Final
Jone/Lain (EE)
Wise/Smit 12  Final
Weag/Eppi (6)
Lott/Lott 12  Final
Bouc/Char (7)
Krev/Math Final
Whit/Whit (6)
M: Aberdeen International Curling Championship
Aberdeen, SCO
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 2:45pm GMT
Mouat Final
Shuster (7)
D: WCT Slovakia Mixed Doubles Cup II
Bratislava, SVK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 12:00pm CET
Han/Zou Final
Paul/Paul (7)
Cihl/Mace Final
Yang/Tian 10  (6)
: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 4 -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 10:00am MT
Delorey Final
Koe (5)
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