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Eau Claire, WI
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M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
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Ringgenberg (9)
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Fort Smith, NT
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M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
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03-26-15 11:53AM
bennybeam is offline Click Here to See the Profile for bennybeam Click here to Send bennybeam a Private Message Find more posts by bennybeam Add bennybeam to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
bennybeam
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Feb 2015
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Opportunities??

Just curious as to who is looking out for the junior curlers in Ontario. With both Port Perry and Annadale OJCT events cancelled for this upcoming season, where are the younger curlers going to get some game time to develop? It's not like there's a single bonspiel they can play in as is the case with Bantams. Someone is dropping the ball as the OJCT website never has anything of substance on it (i.e forum chats/news/local rsults etc). Can't see Ontario doing very well in the coming years with this kind of apathy.

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03-27-15 02:34PM
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I agree about the website. Used to be pretty decent, now it's pretty useless.

I have heard through the grapevine that there are some new Junior spiels in the works for next season. And Bantam-wise there were 7 (well, 6 due to ice issues at Galt) events this year. That's an all-time high, isn't it?

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03-27-15 02:39PM
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bennybeam
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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There are opportunities for bantams as in addition to the OJCT events, you have numerous local bonspiels. In contrast, as it stands currently, junior curlers will have 4 or 5 events and playdowns to shape their season. Add to this jammed packed men's leagues throughout the GTA where no new entries are being accepted. So again, I ask, where does the aspiring and competitive 18-20 yr old play? Don't even mention spare ice which is virtually non-existent.

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03-30-15 09:10AM
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wilkinsom
Knee-Slider

 

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OJCT

For your information, the OJCT board has been working on finalizing our schedule for the 2015/2016 season. Unfortunately we have lost two events in Port Perry and Annandale, but we have gained at least 2 new events and they will be up on the website shortly with this season's schedule.

If you have any other questions regarding the tour, you can contact myself or any board members through our website.

Regards,
Matt Wilkinson
Chairperson
OJCT Board

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03-30-15 11:45AM
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bennybeam
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Hey that's great news for junior curlers but will they be centrally located? Also, what ever happended to the impending chat forums? Your last release said it would be up in a couple of weeks. That was 52 weeks ago, doesn't exactly convey a feeling of competence.

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03-30-15 11:48AM
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wilkinsom
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Unfortunately we have hit more snags in that process. It is on the list of items to be completed. I don't have an update as to a time frame at this time.

We will have a schedule to post shortly.

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03-30-15 12:00PM
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bennybeam: thanks for implying I'm incompetent and for doing so anonymously, that's brave of you.

I'm the only person responsible for the website and unfortunately it's been a busy year for me professionally. Naturally, paying the bills comes first though I'm dedicated to continuing my work with the tour (of which this year marks my 10th year thereof).

The website will certainly get back to what it was, and more. Though since you seem to have many opinions, I welcome you to throw your hat into the ring and contribute something tangible. We're always looking for volunteers.

Wes

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03-30-15 12:28PM
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bennybeam
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A little sensitive Wes?--I didn't state 'Wes was imcompetent' --i referred to the OJCT--which by nature shouldn't be construed as personal. And as a life long volunteer myself, I know all to well the shortcomings of resources and time constraints---so well done!

Maybe calling in some much need assitance would have been the way to go instead of leaving the website status quo for a year. At any rate, if I've taken anything away from my years as a curling parent it's this: The OCA and CCA--in conjunctionwith just about every curling club---could give a rats ass as to the health and viablility of youth curling. And as such---those same clubs will be on the morphine drip in a decade.

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03-30-15 01:22PM
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wilkinsom
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To whomever this is.

The OJCT is not part of the OCA or CCA. We are our own entity and our primary concern is junior curling within Ontario. I would say that we have been working rather diligently in making sure that we have a decent schedule for the upcoming season, along with that have worked on an assistance fund for some coaching standards.

I guess I'm just not sure exactly what else you are looking for? Assistance from whom? In the past we have asked for nominees to come onto the board, and while we have had some new faces, it is the efforts of those currently on the board to recruit new members. Once again we will be asking for new members this season and are literally in the process of doing that, however I bet that we will have minimal interest.

Yes we haven't had the forums up and running for a while. We had a massive problem which forced them to be removed originally and there is lots of time and work required in order to get them back up and running. As much as they would be nice to have, it is not the top priority within our group.

Matt

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03-30-15 01:37PM
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bennybeam
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Matt

I'm aware that the OCA and CCA are not the OJCT---that was just a seperate comment as I laid 99% of the blame on them for not addressing the issues with junior curling and coming up with a plan to address it. I'm aware of what the OJCT is and aspires to do, all I did was ask a question and offered some advice on communicating effectively. And I probably wouldn't be a good fit for your org as the two of you seem genuinely defensive about answering a question or acknolegging a shortcoming.

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03-30-15 01:43PM
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wilkinsom
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I can be defensive as I am trying to explain to you what challenges our organization is attempting to overcome. I like to be clear and concise when asked where our stance is on issues. We have been working hard and are making some progress, but there are still some severe issues with youth curling in our province, as I attested to at our tour championships. We are all looking for the right answers and are open to conversation about them, however in the proper manner.

I think that this type of dialogue can be good, if done so in the right manner.

I won't belabor this conversation any longer. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.

Matt

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03-30-15 02:03PM
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bennybeam
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Well here's a suggestion: I would estimate there are approx. 1000+ junior/bantam competitive curlers scattered throughout ontario---and 5,000 little rockers who are about to be, hopefully, competitive curlers. Why not charge a token $25 fee to gain access to your website and then use that $25,000 to expand the functionality of your website. Once up and running, recruit local talented kids to write a weekly profile on a local kid they know or report on an OJCT event. In other words--expand your brand. Doesn't have to rival the CCA's website, just create general interest and put curling out there. And before you get all defensive, I think it's a damn shame that the OCA isn't mandated by the government to do just this--develop the game so it can flourish and be in good shape for years to come!

Don't be afraid to ask for money from participants, it's the only way to grow the game.

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03-30-15 02:17PM
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wilkinsom
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I would address your name here but I don't know who you are.

Your idea is an interesting one, however the numbers that you have an entirely incorrect. There is not even half that amount of competitive curlers within our province to your number and with that a very small majority actually would pay a fee to use the website. It is an interesting idea that we can possibly mold something from, but would need a bunch of work. And even with that, I don't think that we would get a majority of individuals that would want to pay for more work to be done on the website.

Matt

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03-30-15 02:34PM
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bennybeam
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Well, i calculated them by perusing the OCA website to see the number of entries into the bantam girls/boys and junior girls and boys zone entries and while it is an estimate, there's no way it's off by 50%. And isn't it better to have tried, than to say "i don't think people will pay.'

Many parents are about to spend approx 30 in gas to go to another Oakville orphan camp plus the cost set out by Oakville CC. SO you sure they wouldn't pony up 425 for the comfort up networking from home to find other players?

Now dovetail onto that, the reality that 70% of teams break up every season---even sucessful ones. And how about the little rockers making the transition to bantam. Any idea how many just pack it in because they have no idea where or how to form a team? Well, I've tried a few clubs and they all have one thing in common: 50 little rockers one day and NOT a single competitive bantam team the next. Name me another sport that has such a precipitious drop in numbers or such a poor job of fostering that competitive spirit from those who wish to pursue the sport?

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03-30-15 02:38PM
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wilkinsom
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I agree that there is an issue.

But trust me, this issue has existed for as long as I've been involved with the OJCT. While I agree that we have some shortcomings and are working on them, there is a much bigger issue outside of the OJCT and at the grassroots level. We are attempting to do this with assisting with coach development, but there is only so much that we as an organization can do without additional support.

Don't get me wrong, we aren't trying, and trust me it has been a concern brought forth over the past number of years of declining numbers. Finding the answers is the tough part.

Matt

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03-30-15 02:53PM
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bennybeam
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Not to be cynical Matt but who came up with that plan to assist coaching? You have 5.5 Million people in the GTA but all those member clubs don't qualify a single coach because you stipulated a population requirement on the aid. Annadale, East York, Bayview, Dixie, Ching, Donalda, scarborough Golf, tam heaher--just to name a few off the top of my head----not enough coaches to handle the amount of kids who want to play. Insane. So why do you address the need for the rural clubs but ignore the GTA---where every little rock/bantam program is packed. Leaside turned away prospective players again this year. Why didn't you just lobby Tom Ward and say 'we need a 3 year reprieve for coaches of junior curlers until we can find a better way of ensuring that any kid that wants to play competitively, has an aveneue?

Why be exclusive? You think it's just a rural problem? Do you guys have GTA members on your comittee?

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03-30-15 02:57PM
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wilkinsom
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I'm going to end this dialogue at this point because it is becoming to hostile. If you would like to chat I am always available and would like to know who I am chatting with.

If this is such a huge issue within your area, please reach out to me and we can converse.

Regards,
Matt

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03-30-15 03:04PM
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bennybeam
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That's your perogative Matt but "hostile" is a little much. I've asked you a couple of questions-- which you suggested I do in an earlier response. I'm not looking to cause waves as at the end of the day, you--along with others---are trying your best. Have a good summer!

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03-30-15 04:21PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bennybeam
Not to be cynical Matt but who came up with that plan to assist coaching? You have 5.5 Million people in the GTA but all those member clubs don't qualify a single coach because you stipulated a population requirement on the aid. Annadale, East York, Bayview, Dixie, Ching, Donalda, scarborough Golf, tam heaher--just to name a few off the top of my head----not enough coaches to handle the amount of kids who want to play. Insane. So why do you address the need for the rural clubs but ignore the GTA---where every little rock/bantam program is packed. Leaside turned away prospective players again this year. Why didn't you just lobby Tom Ward and say 'we need a 3 year reprieve for coaches of junior curlers until we can find a better way of ensuring that any kid that wants to play competitively, has an aveneue?

Why be exclusive? You think it's just a rural problem? Do you guys have GTA members on your comittee?



The GTA does need some attention. The potential is huge with the population. The OCA needs to start waking up. With many parents getting turned off by hockey, this is a fantastic opportunity for curling to fill the gap. At my club, the parents have had to step in but of course none of the teams can play in a competition as the parents aren't certified.

This is a good discussion and I don't think it is hostile, just frustration. Maybe at the orphan clinic at Oakville, the TCA (who I think is running it) should have a forum with reps from the OJCT, OCA, club junior coordinators and parents to have a good discussion about GTA specific issues.

__________________
Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.

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03-30-15 04:31PM
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bennybeam
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Here's the problem in the GTA: curling clubs are filled up all day and night with adults paying anywhere from 375-500 a person to curl in a league. Try squaring that with a 80-100 fee for a kid to play and voila---it's a no brainer. Why the OCA doesn't go to the gov't and mandate --at least the city rinks---that ice will be available for kids 3 times a week and at times appropriate for kids--i.e. tues and thur 7-9p.m., is beyond me. Apathy i guess. Maybe the could call the minister of sport for the country, he's always seated a couple of rows behind the canadian skip.

And with the city now leasing their rinks out to the clubs to run themselves, its only get worse as any club that I've been associated with refuses to listen. The kids get sunday for 2 hours and that's it. Tam Heather used to have some time on friday evenings but that's it. And you're right about the present opportunity the exists for the next wave of curlers, it's there for the taking.

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04-08-15 06:47PM
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@bennybeam I completely agree with your point of view. As a junior curler myself, it has been very hard to get ice time from any club - at my club there is only regular practice ice from 1-5, which is almost impossible for a bantam/junior especially since they are still in school (or are too far away to make it in time for some sort of practice). One way to get around this is by going to different clubs and leapfrogging from one club to another (especially on Sundays). Another way is to spare for adult leagues almost every night, but some leagues forbid youth spares and curling games don't provide the technical development that practices can (I say 'almost every night' because you basically need to be constantly out there telling people you want to spare). I was fortunate enough that my curling club was close to school, so practice time was possible. (It's probably good to mention that the practice ice I'm talking about isn't pebbled after a game, so it's not that great...)
My first year joining two curling clubs was my first year qualifying for the Ontario provincials. My advice for younger curlers is to join several clubs and increase their exposure by being open to advice from coaches.

Another issue you have highlighted is the lack of forums, and this is really interesting to me. Last year, the OJCT forums were down, but they managed to make a google forms to compensate for this. I asked why this couldn't be done for this season, but I didn't really get much of a reply... it isn't even that difficult, and if I really wanted to, I could do it without the support of the OJCT. I just don't see how the forums can come 'soon' (as I was told) if they are of 'low priority'. It's a shame that the CurlingZone forums have low traffic with bantams/juniors...

And coaches? If your coach leaving your team two weeks before the deadline isn't bad enough, then trying to find a qualified coach is probably worse (and I'm talking about GTA).

For any of those people who might think I'm just complaining, you should also realize what I have done for my curling community. For the last five years, I have volunteered my time for the little rocks program; for the last four years, I have run a youth-learn-to-curl program and I have greatly developed my school curling program; I am currently a competition coach in-training; I am an assistant ice technician; and I helped push for the expansion of our bantam/junior program from four sheets to as many as we need for the next season. I did this while curling for more than I slept on some weeks and completing an advanced placement physics course with multivariable calculus (AND labs and tests after school) in grade 12 at an enriched and competitive math and sciences program. So yeah, I think I'm pretty qualified to comment.

I can see why the OJCT people might be frustrated with comments such as the ones in this forum, but I don't understand why their responses have to be so defensive and ambiguous. If you're fixing problems, tell us what those problems are and how you are fixing them! Or put your time into getting it done instead of lashing out at others. And if the OJCT or other organizations aren't able to do it, I hope readers will be motivated to do something. As I paraphrase from Kennedy, ask not what others can do - ask what you can do.

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Curling Scores

M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M5 -- Wed, Mar 27 -- 7:00pm CT
Fitzgerald Final
Guentzel (10) Watch Live Curling!
Cenzalli Final
Rose (10) Watch Live Curling!
Church Final
Lannoye (10) Watch Live Curling!
Hebert Final
Brenden (9) Watch Live Curling!
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W4 -- Wed, Mar 27 -- 2:00pm CT
Scheel Final
Berg (9) Watch Live Curling!
Pekowitz Final
Berg (9) Watch Live Curling!
Schapman Final
Johnson (10) Watch Live Curling!
Giroux 12  Final
Viau (9) Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
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