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M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 12:00pm CT
Church Final
Rose (9) Watch Live Curling!
Brenden Final
Guentzel (9) Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald Final
Hebert (9) Watch Live Curling!
Lannoye Final
Cenzalli (10)
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W5 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00am CT
Giroux Final
Schapman (7) Watch Live Curling!
Johnson 10  Final
Scheel (9) Watch Live Curling!
Berg Final
Viau (9) Watch Live Curling!
Pekowitz 11  Final
Berg (7) Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
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Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
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Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
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Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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03-17-15 11:52AM
nicecontroleasy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for nicecontroleasy Find more posts by nicecontroleasy Add nicecontroleasy to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Feb 2015
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Too Old To Win?

Some comments have suggested Gushue is running out of time to win the Brier (and Mcewen). Someone also said it's rare to win 1st mens national championship and be a skip in mid to late 30's.

After some digging through last 25 years:
1992 Vic Peters - 36yrs
1996 Jeff Stoughton - 32yrs
2000 Greg McAulay - 40yrs
2004 Mark Dacey - 37yrs
2010 Kevin Koe - 35yrs

and sort of same example
2014 Pat Simmons (as 3rd): 39yrs
2015 Pat Simmons: 40yrs

Not a lot of examples but it happens and the total average age of skips from 1991 - 2015 really stuck out!
37.9yrs and only 2 skips (1991, Martin 24yrs and 2013, Jacobs 27yrs) were under 30.

Gushue and Mcewen just about turning 35 and maybe entering prime?

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03-17-15 01:12PM
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Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Jan 2011
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Re: Re: Too Old To Win?

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend



Just a few more "Fun Facts" about age:

Oldest guy to win a Brier - Abner Gowanlock, MB (1953, age 53)
Ken Watson won his last Brier in 1949 - age 45 (most competitors in the 30s thru early 50s were aged mid 30s to early 50s)
Stoughton's last Brier win - he was 46 or 47

Wonder who the oldest woman to win a cdn. championship in the modern era is? Colleen Jones? Jennifer @ 40?



Pretty sure colleen was close to 45 in 2004.

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03-17-15 01:24PM
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misty1
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for the record i never said they couldnt i said it was very rare for someone late in their careers to win the brier for the first time as a skip. the fact that it has only happened 5 times proves my point

it gets harder the older you get to break through and win your maiden national title

and by the way, i dont consider 32 to be late 30s so you can remove jeff winning when he was 32 from the list..maybe might even remove kevin koe at 35

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03-17-15 01:45PM
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Nine Ender
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1
for the record i never said they couldnt i said it was very rare for someone late in their careers to win the brier for the first time as a skip. the fact that it has only happened 5 times proves my point

it gets harder the older you get to break through and win your maiden national title

and by the way, i dont consider 32 to be late 30s so you can remove jeff winning when he was 32 from the list..maybe might even remove kevin koe at 35



Historical records are only somewhat useful because recent ice conditions, equipment changes, and fitness regimes have made it easier to curl well even into your 50s.

It remains to be seen if the hyper-fitness approach of say Jacobs ( relatively younger team with a lot of fitness aspect ) can dominate curling over teams with much older back ends. It could be that Jacobs is kind of a one off, that only a few teams can leverage their off ice activities to this extent. Or it might be the start of a major change in the sport. I'm inclined to think the former, that experience and strategic play can still keep older guys at or near the top, as long as they play back end and stay in decent shape themselves.

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03-17-15 01:52PM
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misty1
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quote:
Originally posted by Nine Ender


Historical records are only somewhat useful because recent ice conditions, equipment changes, and fitness regimes have made it easier to curl well even into your 50s.

It remains to be seen if the hyper-fitness approach of say Jacobs ( relatively younger team with a lot of fitness aspect ) can dominate curling over teams with much older back ends. It could be that Jacobs is kind of a one off, that only a few teams can leverage their off ice activities to this extent. Or it might be the start of a major change in the sport. I'm inclined to think the former, that experience and strategic play can still keep older guys at or near the top, as long as they play back end and stay in decent shape themselves.



well another reason i suggest time may be running out is because of those other younger teams coming around. teams like bottcher, dunstone, calvert, virtue and other teams i have named previously. the question is are brad and mike good enough to stay at the top of the game as long as jeff, glenn and kevin did or will they start to fade and notice their results start to fall off a bit sooner.

again i state that its not impossible, pat proved that it can be done this year but its just going to get harder with every year that passes by .

Last edited by misty1 on 03-17-15 at 02:00PM

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03-17-15 04:35PM
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mcgregorm89
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Registered: Apr 2014
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quote:
Originally posted by Nine Ender


Historical records are only somewhat useful because recent ice conditions, equipment changes, and fitness regimes have made it easier to curl well even into your 50s.



With all of the recent changes especially in fitness it's actually harder to curl at this level into your 50's, skips can be an exception as they don't need to be as fit like the front end. Look at Martin and Stoughton, both are in their early fifties and have or are retiring with more likely to follow.

That being said Gushue and McEwen both have at least another 10-15 years if they stick it out as long. The way both of these guys are playing I'm sure they will get their briers soon enough. Curling is becoming like a lot of other team sports. You have the young talent and a veteran with leadership skills and experience.

Last edited by mcgregorm89 on 03-17-15 at 04:37PM

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03-17-15 04:57PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Wow, I can't believe I'm getting into this debate, but Gushue is his own problem. You can say what you will about his "auto-berth" but the guy does get on tour and can slug it out with the so-called big boys with some success.

This issue as I alluded to is the man himself. As has been very publicly stated, he isn't willing to relinquish control of the team's strategy, schedule, diets, etc. The best he played was when he let go of control and let Russ call the game.

The guy is a great shooter when he's on his game, but he needs someone else to call it so that he can focus on what's important. Hit the broom, throw the right weight. That's it.

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03-17-15 06:09PM
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Par
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Registered: Feb 2006
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Brad Gushue and "The Lindholm Syndrome"

Some skips are such excellent shot-makers that they win a lot of games, even though their tactical skills are relatively weak. They tend to skip themselves into trouble, then shoot their way out of it.

Other skips are such excellent tacticians that they win a lot of games, even though their physical skills are relatively weak. They tend to skip their opponent into trouble, use his rocks against him, and so on. They read ice better than their opponents, they understand angles better, and they do a better job of shot-selection.

Peja Lindholm may have been the most gifted shot-maker of his generation, but sometimes he didn't seem to understand the game as well as his opponents. When he lost, it was often because of poor decisions, not poor shot-making.

As you may recall, Lindholm had huge success at an early age, winning medals at three World Junior Championships. By the time he was 35 he was by far the most decorated skip in world curling history. But even at the peak of his career he was losing big games by calling the wrong shots.

Do we know anyone with a similar problem?

It seems to me that the greater success a skip has at a young age, the more difficult it is for him to address, let alone solve, this sort of a problem.

It may be that Brad Gushue is trapped in his own success. If he never goes on to win a Brier, it probably won't be because of shot-making.

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03-17-15 06:32PM
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johnnysmoke
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Don't recall Lindholm having this problem. I do remember him winning a World Curling championship. (I since learned he has 3). I think it helped when he started going by the name 'Peja'.

Gushue, don't see it. John Morris on the other hand fits this syndrome as skip, but you can't fault his success as a vice.

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03-17-15 07:10PM
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With all the years Gushue has been to the Brier, this one is the first time he would have been one of the favourites to win. And when you consider Jacobs is as good or likely better than Gushue right now, it's hard to say they've failed.

Gushue has typically been a 5-10th ranked team on the Order of Merit, had won 1 Grand Slam prior to this season and was still a little bit behind the top teams on Tour.

Things changed this season with two Grand Slam wins and sitting 3rd overall on the Order of Merit. It put them into true contender status for the first time.

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03-22-15 12:31PM
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Maybe I'm a little old-fashioned, but isn't it rude to discuss a woman's age? Especially on a website? And whatever you do don't visit the Canadian Senior Championship website?

Thank you

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Curling Scores

M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 12:00pm CT
Church Final
Rose (9) Watch Live Curling!
Brenden Final
Guentzel (9) Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald Final
Hebert (9) Watch Live Curling!
Lannoye Final
Cenzalli (10)
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W5 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00am CT
Giroux Final
Schapman (7) Watch Live Curling!
Johnson 10  Final
Scheel (9) Watch Live Curling!
Berg Final
Viau (9) Watch Live Curling!
Pekowitz 11  Final
Berg (7) Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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