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11-24-14 04:02PM
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Knee-Slider

 

Registered: May 2011
Location: Richmond, B.C.
Posts: 8

Northern Zones

How can there not be ANY teams from the North entered into mens playdowns? I even reached out to a couple guys to enter with me and give it a shot and they said "maybe next year...". originally being from the north, it's heartbreaking there aren't ANY guys up there willing to give it a go. Man, things have changed.

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11-25-14 03:23AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

One reason might be that there is no curling in PG this year until January. Go to http://www.pggolfandcurling.com/upl...e_2014Nov24.pdf

However, it's also the case that there don't appear to be any men's teams trying to compete seriously from the North, and haven't been for some time now. When is the last time any northern team played in the Kamloops men's cash spiel for instance?

I know in Williams Lake that there aren't any competitive teams at all. My buddy lives there and can't find anyone to curl competitively with. When I lived there in the late 80s and early 90s we had teams entering the zone playdowns.

Over the past few years, there really hasn't been much competition amongst northern teams to go to the BC Dominion (now Travellers)event that is part of the Pacific International Cup at Richmond. If teams aren't even gunning for that, then they aren't likely to enter playdowns either.

The team from Prince George at the BC men's last year really wasn't ready for a provincial championship and probably hadn't done much training and preparation either. At least there have been northern women's teams putting in the time and effort to be competitive.

Michael Dahms might have been someone who could have been representing the north in BC men's play, but he's living in the Peace these days.

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11-25-14 08:42PM
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

I don't think it helps matters that Curl BC has a minimum requirement of 4 teams entered to get a berth. The North is spread out as it is. A rule that tells a team in Terrace, if it is the only entry, that they have to go play in Vernon if they're the lone team entered only acts as another disincentive to curlers thinking of entering.

I think its time for Curl BC to reconsider the original allocation system that I proposed for the 5 Region plan. For those that forget, it was guaranteeing one berth/zone-regardless of the number the entries-with eight more divided amongst the regions based on berths/teams ratio. After those ten berths, four went to the open event, one to the defending champ and another to the top CTRS team.

Additionally' a great observation was made to me this past weekend in Nelson by Fred Thomson. He made, I thought, a valid point that having the regionals in December was itself a disincentive to entering-especially to people in retail or service jobs who's busiest season is Christmas and the weeks leading up to it. How can people in these situations afford to take time off from work?

There's also a financial side to consider. We all spend a whack of cash in December on Christmas, some people have to choose the holiday season instead of playdown season just because of the cost.

I really think it makes better sense to start regionals in January, on the second weekend. Two weeks after that you can have your open event and two weeks later your provincials.

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Last edited by jamcan on 11-25-14 at 08:49PM

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11-26-14 02:26AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

Jamie:

Minimum four teams rule has been changed for this season. You now need just two teams entered in a region to get a berth.

Is Fred busier handing out parking tickets over Christmas season as well?

Richard

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11-26-14 02:30AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

Jamie:

There's also a policy in place now that berths are pro-rated according to the number of entries in each region. By my calculations, Lower Mainland will get four berths, Island three berths, Thompson-Okanagan two berths and Kootenays once berth.

RB

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11-26-14 12:42PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2005
Location:
Posts: 22

Thanks for your reply Tour Guide,and i am a very busy Santas helper durring the Christmas season usually involving a lot of big snow issues, but dont worry its only an Interior problem.That Christmas season issue is only one of the problems i see with low numbers entering playdowns in BC but i have talked about those issues with most and will not rehash. One thing i still can not handle is that there is any minimum # of teams needed in any region i believe if there is only 1 then let them go. My great fear is i see the Koots on that same path as the North and i would hate to see a very good team like Team Buchy be told they cant go to provincials because only they entered in the Koots, so travel7-8 hrs and play in Vernon...and believe me that day is not far away...back to shoveling snow(sure glad its not a weekend that teams would have to travel to Nelson for a regional)

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11-26-14 03:26PM
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

Thanks Richard, didn't see the changes on the curl bc site.

You can also put me in the same camp as Fred. One team getting a berth by acclimation is better than no teams entering.

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11-26-14 04:04PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

Fred:

I am indeed glad the snow is only an Interior problem! Couldn't wait to get out of Winfield when the weather turned cold and we closed the golf course. Driving the Coquihalla Highway, especially the Kelowna to Merritt section, is no fun during winter weather. Twice I've been in cars that lost control on black ice and crashed on the Coq, returning home from bonspiels.

If you see any sleighs with reindeer attached in a no parking zone on Christmas Eve, please turn a blind eye!

Richard

P.S. What's with all the old guys beating everyone up at the Nelson cash spiel?

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11-26-14 04:09PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

Rather than a team getting in by acclamation, I'd be supportive of a single team entering in one region getting some help to go compete in the next nearest regional playdown event. Waive the playdown entry fee and give them some travel money. Hope it doesn't come to that though.

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11-27-14 02:18AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

Speaking of northern curlers, I was told tonight about an interesting situation this weekend at the women's playdown in Kelowna. Kelly Shimizu from the Richmond club has a fifth curler joining the team for this playdown event, as one of the regulars on the Shimizu team can't make it.

What is extraordinary about this situation, one I've never heard of, is that the fifth lives in Chetwynd. So, she's a BC resident and curls in BC, but comes from the Peace Country, which is under the Alberta curling jurisdiction. The Shimizu team applied for permission from Curl BC to have her curl with them, and received it.

Perhaps something like this could happen for northern men's teams to give them a larger pool of players to choose from.

I'm not sure if Peace Country male curlers have ever been part of any BC curling association, but the female curlers certainly were part of the old BCLCA until sometime around 2000.

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11-27-14 02:56PM
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alex
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Sep 2011
Location: Quesnel
Posts: 420

I think Dahms is curling in Quesnel this weekend. For the PG teams it will be their first curling of the year. 16 teams entered but many are mixed from Quesnel. There are two PG teams that would be seniors or Masters and may be entering playdowns this year. Problem is so many teams have some players go to south after December.

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11-27-14 03:13PM
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Knee-Slider

 

Registered: May 2011
Location: Richmond, B.C.
Posts: 8

Yeah, there are definitely a few guys who head to the Arizona region right after Christmas. I think the second trip to Provincials is the main deterrent for most teams back home. The travel cost and lodgings cost can add up pretty quick, I know when I was playing juniors there years ago the trip to Vancouver wasn't cheap. Even with a little fundraising and any sponsor money we could scrounge. But, such is the life of living in the North. There are good curlers up there with the potential to be great, but the distance to travel to decent caliber cash spiels is a kick in the pants. Also, there has to be a sincere enthusiasm and commitment to wanting to enter into playdowns. Most teams I know, now, are into the club level curling and spieling locally - which is still great. The Loggers' and Marine Spiels are a blast and still fill up decently. I go back almost every year for the Loggers in Terrace and it's honestly one of the best spiels I do all year - and I do a few, including mixed, men's and even Legions. So I will continue to support the North the best I can and hopefully bring some people with me!

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12-02-14 02:23PM
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Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

on a slightly sideways note, Brent Pierce beats out Grant Dezura for the CTRs provincial the earth by less than one quarter of a point thanks to a second place finish from this past weekend in Saskatchewan.

The question that now arises is if the Okanagan Region will still play for two berths, which they had before the weekend, or now play for one-since Pierce is gone and they're down to six teams. Hard to justify two spots for six when the koots only get one for five teams.

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12-02-14 03:21PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 83

The coast will take another spot if you want to give one up!

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12-02-14 04:24PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

Thompson-Okanagan still gets two spots. The arthimetic is:

14/34 = 4.1 (4 berths Lower Mainland)

9/34 = 2.6 (3 berths Island)

6/34 = 1.8 (2 berths Thompson-Okanagan)

5/34 = 1.5 (1 berth Kootenays)

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12-02-14 05:02PM
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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

So the formula is :

(Regional Entrys/Total Entry's) X 10 = # of Regional Berths.

Rounded up or down depending upon decimal placement.

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12-02-14 05:03PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

Pierce is ahead of Dezura on the CTRS, but there is a glitch in those standings. CTRS guidelines posted on CCA website clearly state that an event must have 15 teams in order to provide points to teams participating. Vancouver Island Shootout only had 12 teams, but Pierce earned CTRS points there. Take those points away and Dezura gets CTRS berth into BC men's championship.

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12-02-14 05:07PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
So the formula is :

(Regional Entrys/Total Entry's) X 10 = # of Regional Berths.

Rounded up or down depending upon decimal placement.



Look at it this way. 2.6 is closer to 3 and 1.8 is closer to 2 than 1.5 is to 2.

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12-02-14 05:36PM
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Knee-Slider

 

Registered: May 2011
Location: Richmond, B.C.
Posts: 8

the CTRS thing should be interesting to see how it plays out in the next week. Always makes for good reading - but that's as a non biased 3rd person point of view.

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12-02-14 06:33PM
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Swing Artist

 

Registered: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 459

quote:
Originally posted by Tour Guide
Pierce is ahead of Dezura on the CTRS, but there is a glitch in those standings. CTRS guidelines posted on CCA website clearly state that an event must have 15 teams in order to provide points to teams participating. Vancouver Island Shootout only had 12 teams, but Pierce earned CTRS points there. Take those points away and Dezura gets CTRS berth into BC men's championship.


I guess it depends on whether or not the guidelines from the World Curling Tour Order of Merit are used or the more strict CCA CTRS guidelines. The WCT Order of Merit Calculations indicate that an event with fewer than 15 teams can qualify for points providing the SFM (strength of field multiplier) is a minimum of .5. Going into the Vancouver Island Shootout, Pierce was ranked 48th on the OoM, Gaell was ranked 67th on the OoM, and Joanisse was ranked 79th on the OoM. 48th rank qualifies for 0.2 SFM, 67th and 79th both qualify for 0.15 SFM (0.3 total), so with those three teams alone the SFM would be 0.5 meeting the minimum requirement.

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12-02-14 07:07PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

CTRS rankings apply and have since this policy was introduced.

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12-03-14 02:40PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 83

Anyway we slice it we all still have to curl well to get the spots.

Let Curl BC do what they are going to do and lets get back to the game.

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12-03-14 11:21PM
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

quote:
Originally posted by Tour Guide
Pierce is ahead of Dezura on the CTRS, but there is a glitch in those standings. CTRS guidelines posted on CCA website clearly state that an event must have 15 teams in order to provide points to teams participating. Vancouver Island Shootout only had 12 teams, but Pierce earned CTRS points there. Take those points away and Dezura gets CTRS berth into BC men's championship.


True, except you missed the large loophole the CCA put in that allows events with a "nontraditional" format to apply for CTRS status. Seeing as Curl BC uses points pulled from the CTRS rankings, not the WCT OOM, one must presume the Vancouver Island Shootout applied for that exemption and received it.

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12-04-14 12:36AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

Jamie:

I can't see that when I go to:

http://www.curling.ca/team-canada/c...ated-2013-2018/

This isn't something that I just noticed and posted. It's an issue that's been raised with the Curl BC office and might be why the regional playdown draws aren't out yet.

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12-04-14 09:32AM
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Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

http://www.curling.ca/team-canada/c...ctrs-2014-2018/

Try that page, read the section titled Due Diligence.

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M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
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